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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The number of posts that involve Obsessive loops of thinking always astounds me.

Please try to notice as you read others' posts, too....it's always easier to see it in OTHER people, as we're blinded by our own myopic spots (defensively). Try to notice how STUBBORN we all get - that we want to heal from Dp in the way WE want....i.e., we want to WATCH ourselves emerge from it. We all resist, tooth and nail, the idea of NOT watching the self.

I really urge you to keep looking for the similarities between the obsessive thinking, and the symptoms/traits of Obsessive Compusive Disorder. This is NOT to say "oh, you HAVE OCD" - because in my own opinion, it doesn't matter at all what names you give these things. The human mind, in regressive states, VERY often will enter a zone of "thought loops" whereby it soon feels impossible to STOP doing something - even when we realize logically that it isn't working.

SAME exact thing happens in OCD.

It is the same mental process that some of us DP'ers use - we HARP on the following 3 general topics:
1. How real do I feel? How did I used to feel? Why can't I FORCE my "Self" to feel the way ti used to?
2. Self-watching: noticing every sensation in our bodies/minds (our inner monologues, our breathing, our dizziness quotient, our eye movements, watching ourselves THINK) and having to get reassurance that whatever we obsess about for the day is not a brain tumor, sign of immediate demise, sign of insanity.
3. What is reality? What is the meaning of existence/death/infinity/eternity, etc?

EVERy...single time you give in to those kinds of thoughts, you are LOCKING IN your symptoms and your DP state.

I cannot stress this enough, guys. It FEELS good to do those things - or rather, it feels better to do them than it feels to not do them. Well, that is what a COMPULSION is.

IF this speaks to you, I'd suggest checking out a book by Jeffrey Schwartz - it's not about DP at all, it's written as a "Focus Outward" technique for OCD sufferers, but I recommend it because I think many of you will recognize yourselves there, and it might finally help you to see what you're doing to yourself.

"Brain Lock" by Jeffrey Schwartz.

Take care,
Janine
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
i agree, ive recently realized how closely linked OCD and dp/dr is...i was about to say "its possible most of us have ocd" before i realized noone would believe me.
 

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Janine I was wondering what your thoughts were on OCD, not to say any of us have it but what do you think "causes" it and what do you think is the way out, same as for DP/DR?

Also I wondered if you ever read "Imp of the Mind"by Lee Baer or "Tormenting Thoughts and Secret Rituals" by Ian Osand and what you thought of the information found there.

SP
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
In my view, the cause is the same cause of ALL the symptoms in the mental arena - a very complicated mixture of poor defenses, developmental or adjustment problems and "pockets" of anxiety-based thoughts and feelings that are perceived by the Self as "not me" to the extent that the self will deny part of who it is.

OTHER people, not of the psychoanalytic camp, will tell you different. They will tell you that OCD is a biologically based disorder, purely caused by chemical malfunctioning of the brain.

My own experience, and the people I have known PERSONALLY, who had crippling OCD for years, tells me there is certainly a physical COMPONENT to the "thought loops" those rituals/compulsions create. A chemical pathway is FORGED by repeated and frantic "use' of certain behaviors and thoughts as a "catch-all" container for powerful anxiety - that is NOT the same thing as saying that a chemical MAL-function was the cause. I know people personally who worked hard on themselves for YEARS and who managed to find ways of changing and of looking at aspects of Self they had not really been willing to see - and those people, myself included, moved beyond those kinds of mental symptoms.

Changing the way one's mind reacts to its own fears of itself and its habits/patterns, and its defenses and its long-ago patterns and rigid beliefs is HARD. And it takes years.

I used to try to be very politically correct, and say that SOMEtimes the cause is psychological and sometimes it's physical. And of course there is always going to be the isolated case of someoen with a real brain TUMOR - or epilepsy (even that is debatable, however) - so of COURSE there is always the possibility of SOME physical reason. But that is the only disclaimer I'm giving anymore, lol....

For a long time, I was basing my conviction of psychological causes only on my own experience, but the more I work with the psychoanalytic world,and the more people I encounter and the long term follow-up I've had with people, some of whom I met here, who over years of time have recovered totally from their symptoms - as a result of intense psychological therapy work, and many setbacks, and hard work - it is just clear to me that we are MOST of the time, deailng with the same ol' neurotic defenses-breakdown of yore.

The press can call things "disorders" and Public Relations writers can keep writing "chemical imbalance" - it doesn't mean it's correct.

In my OWN experience, usually the basis for OCD type symptoms is a major confict about how one sees oneself. One usually has an IDEAL Self (someone who never gets angry, someone who never hates, or someone who has no dirty sexual impulses, grin...SOME kind of "unacceptable" wishes and fantasies that are sectioned off ("not me") with desperation. OVer and over, you will see the person with those symptoms is trying desperately to live up to some IDeal (and is often afraid of his/her own THOUGHTS, as if to THINK something is as bad as DOING it). That said, the actual working with those symptoms in therapy is complex....no short answer, but the gist of it nearly always has to do with parts of self being denied.

Take care,
J
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
HOWLING!!!!!!!!

Yep, it's reached this point, my old friend.

And to all - I do add that MANY many many professionals disagree with me on this topic. I'm not trying to mislead anyone here.

But there are also many many many professionals who concur with me.

The topic, like life itself, will always invoke differing views.

Peace,
J
 

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Me too. It took me a while to realise the close and sickeningly intimate relationshipt between DP and OCD. In the majority of cases, I'd say one can't survive without the other.
 

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I certainly agree with Janine. I certainly have OCD. For the longest time I thought OCD was only when people had certain physical rituals, i.e. counting, making sure things are organized correctly, etc. But now I know better. I now know that OCD is a huge part of my depression and depersonalization. Though I know and understand this, it still doesn't get me any closer to trying to break free of all this. I am working with my current doctor using CBT and I hope it one day helps me. Cause right now, I am so mentally drained.

Kelson
 
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