Words of wisdom/help?

( 1 ) Do crazy people KNOW they are crazy?

Vote:

YES or NO

Please explain your answer.

( 2 ) If you DO go crazy, do you think you will be able to say, "Aha! I have gone crazy!"?

Vote:

YES or NO

Please explain your answer.

Raff,

You might want to use the person's name when you say "you" because you responded to my post and said "you," as if you were addressing me, but you were not addressing me. You were addressing someone else, the original poster, peaceboy.

At least that's what it appears happened, because *I* am not worried about being crazy, but your text addressed "you," which was me, because you were responding to MY post.

Whether people notice they have irrational thoughts or not is a far cry from being crazy and knowing. Everybody has irrational thoughts. I hope you don't think only mentally ill people have irrational thoughts. If you do think that, you are mistaken. Normal people have ALL the thoughts that DP people have, but to a lesser degree.

DPers are really not all that special. They're just like everybody else, but they probably are a bit more self-centered and immature than most. They were likely poorly parented and have to learn how to parent themselves, which is what most people learned growing up. We didn't learn that then, and have to learn it NOW.

DP is a symptom of an undisciplined mind. It's not a disease. It's a defect in thinking caused by a lack of proper parenting and/or education.

We've been screwed and we are the only ones who can fix it. One key is not seeing ourselves as very different from anyone else. We are not any different than anyone else except that we are less developed! We just have to catch up to the rest of the world who "gets" it.

The secret is that all human consciousness IS weird, IS odd, IS scary, but like children who no longer see monsters in the pile of laundry in the semidarkness, we have to find BETTER THINGS TO DO than sit and conjure up things to scare us.

We are not victims of a disease; we are just mentally childish.

Janine wrote:

"Also, you have some very profound religious beliefs and you certainly wouldn't want someone saying they are merely childish and weak. We are all at different places on the continuum of what defenses we need and how we cope."

I don't believe I said anyone's feelings were merely childish and weak, and I frankly don't see how anyone could read that into my remarks.

I wrote, and if anything, I included myself in these observations by saying "we":

"... DPers are really not all that special. They're just like everybody else, but they probably are a bit more self-centered and immature than most. They were likely poorly parented and have to learn how to parent themselves, which is what most people learned growing up. We didn't learn that then, and have to learn it NOW.

DP is a symptom of an undisciplined mind. It's not a disease. It's a defect in thinking caused by a lack of proper parenting and/or education.

We've been screwed and we are the only ones who can fix it. One key is not seeing ourselves as very different from anyone else. We are not any different than anyone else except that we are less developed! We just have to catch up to the rest of the world who "gets" it.

The secret is that all human consciousness IS weird, IS odd, IS scary, but like children who no longer see monsters in the pile of laundry in the semidarkness, we have to find BETTER THINGS TO DO than sit and conjure up things to scare us.

We are not victims of a disease; we are just mentally childish."

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So, for the record, I wasn't calling anyone "childish" -- I was calling the problem itself as being "mentally childish" which is restricted to the way we think about the specific things I talked about.

But that was yesterday...and I was in STUN mode.

Hi, Universal,

It's not so much that we are "childish" -- after all, how could I mean "childish" in the standard sense when we are thinking about the very things that a child's mind cannot even comprehend? So, I don't mean "childish" in the sense of being "like a child."

I mean "childish" in the sense of:

- Thinking that we are the only people who have irrational thoughts.
- Hanging onto the concept of "DP" as a badge of honor of some kind that takes away our personal responsibility for finding a solution that works for us.
- Not working collaboratively with our doctors and therapists.
- Not listening to and heeding the urgings of people who have given a roadmap and exhaustive emotional support.

I mean "childish" in the sense of not committing oneself completely to and taking charge of finding a solution.

I mean "childish" in tolerating what is very much like an emotionally abusive parent.

I mean "childish" in acting like a six-year-old victim.

I don't mean "childish" in that we ARE emotionally like children, but that with regard to DP, we are not taking charge and acting like adults.

We are not good managers of our "cases" and we have to be, because when our doctors and therapists hear no complaints and get no persistent and serious demands from us, they go on their way treating other people.

For those of us who are not working (I don't know how many aren't working), finding a solution needs to be our "job."

For those of us who are working, finding a solution needs to be our second (or our third) job.

If we were not being "childish" we would spend more time planning on how to obtain and implement a solution than we do on sharing our experiences.

Sharing experiences is good; it strengthens us. But that strength should not be used on stoically waiting for the Promised Land to arrive or on commiserating with others similarly suffering. We have to take charge of the process and use that strength to take up our weapons and fight for our lives. It certainly IS like a fight for our lives. Because nobody can live in our heads but us, nobody is ever going to know what horrors we want to slay. We have to hate the monsters enough to want to do what it takes to slay them. A child does not believe he has the strength or ability to do it. That's the "childish" I am talking about. This is a question of life or death. We need to have the awarenss that only we can take charge of this. No psychiatrist is going to stretch himself or herself to help us find a solution unless we PUSH them to. They cannot get inside our heads. They may never have experienced what we experience. My own psychiatrist has no idea what it feels like; he doesn't know depression and he doesn't know panic. I have to motivate him to help me (I'm speaking theoretically) by insisting that I need to find a REAL solution and by letting him or her know that I intend to find one, whether it is with him or her or another doctor. I would insist on a PLAN from the doctor and a timetable, and tell him or her in terms that are as strong as necessary to get across the concept that I am not going to accept spending the rest of my life this way.

Don't spend 6 months using a drug that doesn't do anything. Don't talk or read or post more than one hour a day about symptoms. Keep a journal and record your fears there but don't spend more than half an hour writing.

Also, it seems to me that understanding some basic principles are necessary. They are all here on this site and in links to other sites.

We have to be "grown up" enough to believe that we CAN do it--that we can find a solution that will work for us.

And if, for some reason, we are not able to take charge, we need to hire someone or enlist a competent family member to either work with us or be our health-care proxy for this illness only.

You see, if one sees one's doctor and goes home, and one's suffering does not lessen after 2 - 3 weeks, one may feel reluctant to "bother the doctor." But that's precisely what we must do. If we don't "bother" them, they think we are okay.

I mean "childish" in, "I am at the mercy of the big people and I can do nothing on my own. I must simply wait until my drunken father stops hitting me."

That's what I mean by childish.