[university girl]

My psychiatrist, who believes I suffer from early psychosis (symptoms listed on personal website), refered me to a gentlemen (who was far from gentle) specializing in psychosis. He also agreed with my psychiatrist, but worded it differently. At first he said he wouldn't go so far as to call it schizophrenia but later called it a rare form of schizophrenia. So rare in fact that those with this type fall under the 1% of all schizophrenics (!?!?). During my reading I have found a huge overlap between DPD symptoms (at least those reported on this site) and symptoms of schizophrenia (not of the delusional and hullicination type). I am afraid to list them because I know many of you will worry once you read them. When I first read of DPD I was sure it was what I had. Now I am wondering... but I am not sure. I am frustrated, confused, don't know who to believe, etc. Perhaps this would be easier if I just avoided the entire doc scene like I know many of you have. But then again, perhaps not. Oh, who knows. Just lots of uncertainty these days. We all know how much we enjoy uncertainty. Had to get this out. Thanks.

Janine, Dreamer, anyone else?

 

[Guest]

YOur website was an interesting read.

I'm glad you mentioned this

"Crackly/full ears: Inner ears can make sounds of velcro ripping upon voluntary muscle movement. It is now impossible to clear my ears.

Fading voice: Often when I speak, it's like each word I say quickly disappears from my conscience, as though I never said. This leads to having a hard time speaking. Sometimes I question whether or not I have said something or just thought it. This led to wondering (but knowing it wasn't possible) if people could hear my thoughts."

As I get this as well. I can remember when I was young, making a noise of some description like an "Ahhh" or something, and then a moment later wondering if it had really happened. I knew it had, but it seemed I could make myself think otherwise. Or something. :? It's hard to explain.

And I get the ear thing too. Good description by the way.

 

[Guest]

More than one shrink used the "schizophrenia" word with me. I think there are similarities between schizophrenia and some types of DP Disorder but afer having lived with this for a long time, I really don't think we're schizophrenics.

I think some of us are delusional/ paranoid to an extent, I have definitely had delusional thinking and not just of the "am I real and is everyone else real" variety.

I think the shrinks say this because both they and you are grasping at straws to try to define and understand this. But it's a long shot to use the "sch" word. Personally, I would not listen to them. The similarites in symptoms may be extensive, but so are the similarites between temporal lobe epilepsy and DP disorder.

 

[ret]

Doctors are full of shit. If I was you I'd just find it funny and laugh at the fact that they're getting paid hundreds of dollars an hour to do this.

 

[Dreamer]

LOL Reticent, well, sometimes I feel that way when I read stories like Unigirl's.

Uni, I know you're in a tough situation re: finances, choice of doctor, etc. but.... oh brother, you just don't come off as psychotic to me. And I certainly can't diagnose you without meeting you, and I ain't no doctor and don't want to be one....

But, if you are seeing a sub-par doctor, this may be indeed a complete lack of knowledge or understanding.

I have been VERY lucky, all my life. And remember I've always had good health insurance in the U.S. here and lived in large cities/some university towns. Every psychiatrist I've seen has recognized DP immediately. No one ever called me psychotic. These were all M.D. psychiatrists.

My diagnosis over the years since age fifteeen in 1975 -- yes, seventy-five, sigh -- has remained essentially unchanged, and I'm surprised that certain doctors didn't see the borderline characteristics I have. The last doctor I have bandied a number of theories about, and he was the closest to noticing those traits in ME. Yet I digress.

Where I've gotten the wildest diagnoses here in the US were with psychologists -- M.A., Ph.D. etc. But recently at a neuropsychiatriclly oriented Uni (M-Go-Blue) my diagnosis again remained the same, and group therapy was recommended -- first time in my life. No meds changes, etc.

I hate to say this, but I so desperately want you to get another opinion.

I don't believe you have some "rare form of psychosis" -- I don't know that I've ever heard of such a thing, but I could be wrong.

Can you PM me the website, so we don't terrify the entire site here, LOL :shock:

I wish I could emphasize .. and again this is perhaps because I grew up in a "family" of 2 doctors, one a shrink. I NEVER feared schizophrenia or psychosis. I knew what these were. I simply feared, and still fear in the future -- scared of getting old, :shock: -- having HORRENDOUS DP that takes over that I can't get out of.

I don't consider that psychosis, but a serious perceptual shift that is horrific but I can't get out of. That is a fear I've had most of my life.

I'm doing much better though. Amazing as that may sound. Just in the past several months.

Psychosis, or rather psychotic symptoms which CAN exist outside of schizophrenia (which is a specific diagnosis with a number of criteria) has it's own constellation of symptoms. SOunds like the doctor, I want to say "doctor" is misunderstanding how you EXPRESS how you feel, and isn't listening.

I would at this point, dump this doctor, and look for someone else. If that is at all possible.

I don't know you, but I find it unlikely you are psychotic, have schizoprhenia, etc.

Take Care
Good luck -- there are idiot mental health professionals aplenty, but there are good ones too.
D 8)

 

[Guest]

Uni, you are not psychotic.

You want to know whats psychotic? I'll tell you

Early Sunday morning, where I live, police took this guy in for questioning about a stabbing/robbery. While he was being questioned, he somehow managed to get the gun from the detective and shoot him 4 times in the chest. He than jumped out of the window, which was 3 stories and was caught later. His family says he is mentally unstable, and even his girlfriend warned police of this. Supposidly he was hearing voices and hallucinating and they were gonna bring him into see someone, but he was being uncooperative. THATS PSYCHOTIC. You have to be out of your mind to kill someone, let alone a detective. What bothers me is that this guy never recieved help for his problems and this is the end result. I guess this guy had been in a car accident and suffered head injuries and was in a coma, and when he awoke from the coma, he was very mentally unstable. Thats crazy how head injuries can well, make you crazy. I thank God everyday that my issues aren't something as severe as Phychosis or Schizophrenia. This whole anxiety/depression, dp/dr thing, We can over come it. Im almost 100 % sure of it.

So again you are not psychotic and your doctors have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[ShaneSutherly]

What is psychosis really? Just because there are symptoms that people see as psychosis doesnt really mean that it is psychosis. How do we know that normal people arent really the psychotic ones and the supposedly psychotic people arent really the normal ones? I don't like labeling how people feel. Its like with dp. Man I'm dped. How do you know? Just because they think that your symptoms mean you have dp doesnt mean you do.

 

[Scattered]

I don't necessarily like labels either but I do benefit from the understanding that the label provides. The first step to solving your problems is to give it a name and understand what you're up against.

As for psychosis I would say any person who is not rational and is a threat to himself or someone else would be psychotic. Otherwise what we're talking about is more about someone who deviates from the norm - a norm that I would consider relative to a persons culture - and is therefore said to be "abnormal." But you cant throw the baby out with the bathwater as they say, to COMPLETELY get rid of labels is to simply allow chaos to reign.

 

[Guest]

During my reading I have found a huge overlap between DPD symptoms (at least those reported on this site) and symptoms of schizophrenia (not of the delusional and hullicination type).

But..see, oh, good GOD, lol....this is what just kills me about the doctors you're seeing. Yes, you're correct - there are very many similar descriptive mental experiences in dp/dr states and schizophrenia.

BUT, then you add "not of the delusional or hallucination type" - THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT SCHIZOPHRENIA, lol....

It's like comparing the state of bleeding from a very deep cut to the state of being decapitated. yes, both produce large amounts of red fluid on the body surface. yes, both produce serious blood loss from the internal organs. yes, both produce severe and massive changes within the arterial processes. But they are not the same because only ONE of the two includes the loss of a head! That last little piece of empirical evidence is not inconsequential, lol!

All I can say is you must find another doctor, someone not affiliated with the first one.

Peace,
Janine

 

[dakotajo]

what are your exact symptoms?

 

[university girl]

what are your exact symptoms?

Current Symptoms- in order of severity with the most disturbing being first

Visual derealization: Two-dimensional, flat like a picture, and as though I am seeing the world through a fish bowl.

Feelings of unreality/Derealization: Like I'm living in a dream... everything is fake. The distinct 'crispness' and emotional feeling associated with being in the present or in reality is gone. Everything is a blur.

Depersonalization: Feels like I'm 'going through the motions', like I don't have control of my body or like I'm in someone else's body. I often feel like a zombie, walking around half asleep, like half of my brain has been removed or like I am dead. This is generally present in the absence of anxiety. At this time speaking is often physically draining.

Visual and Auditory Over-stimulation: Extremely disoriented and confused in busy places-- leads to feelings of alcoholic intoxication. It's like during my thought process, my thoughts bump into each other and get all tangled up. I often describe this as being unable to filter out unnecessary stimuli (feels like I am being bombarded with visual and auditory stimuli). Results in having a difficult time both speaking and hearing. Difficulty hearing voices when background noise is present (while others have no problem). Often cannot determine from what direction a noise is coming from.

Anxiety: High base level of anxiety. Without anxiety the depersonalization is strongest.

Muscle tension and twitches: Neck tension especially at the base of my skull and dural tension. Occasional mouth/jaw stiffness with feelings of my mouth being frozen and therefore difficultly controlling mouth and speech. This leads to feelings of exhaustion when trying to speak. Muscle twitches at base of skull that turn my head slightly from side to side. Sounds of bones shifting accompany the spasms. Postural fatigue in neck area. Frequently need to lie down which helps reduce pressure feelings.

Subconscience stronger than conscience: My subconscious ?blabber? is noisier than before/the thoughts I do not consciously control are louder.

Time distortion: Perceived time lapses which feel as though a few minutes have passed without me knowing what I was doing during that time (better after starting Paxil).

Crackly/full ears: Inner ears can make sounds of velcro ripping upon voluntary muscle movement. It is now impossible to clear my ears.

Fading voice: Often when I speak, it's like each word I say quickly disappears from my conscience, as though I never said. This leads to having a hard time speaking. Sometimes I question whether or not I have said something or just thought it. This led to wondering (but knowing it wasn't possible) if people could hear my thoughts.

Social Anxiety: Feel uncomfortable around people. For example, in a line-up, I feel like I am being watched and judged leaving me feeling physically paralyzed. Often feel like people are watching me, talking/laughing about me and sometimes while walking alone with someone on the same road, I feel as though they are following me. I do know the possibilities of these occurring are unlikely though.

Control of movements: Often feel it is difficult to control my movements.

Insomnia: Mind won't stop thinking although the thoughts have no direction.

 

[dakotajo]

This is only my opinion. Any doctor that labels you psychotic from those symptoms is nuts himself. Those are all classic symptoms of anxiety or basically a fof response that is staying "turned on".

Like most here, you have a very bad anxiety problem and probably also suffer from depression but the anxiety has become so dominant. Anxiety is your main symptom. All of the physical and mental stuff is all a bi-product.

Are you currently taking any drugs(ssris?) I think Ive read in the past that you were taking paxil? Did it help any?

If Im not mistaken, dont you feel that your problems started from drug use? I used to believe the same thing but now I understand that the drug induced stress just "tipped the scales" for me. I believe a person just has to forget about the past and just worry about how to feel better in the future.

Joe

 

[dakotajo]

I believe most of us here are a product of depression that has gone untreated too long. Depression and anxiety go hand and hand. Recovery at this point becomes very long and difficult. The symptom of dp/dr is a product of intense anxiety. Its no different than any other symptom of anxiety. Problem is our reality changes and its terrifying. We fixate on this symptom and we feel we have some bizzarre disorder yet the main problem is still the anxiety/depression.

Joe

 

[university girl]

I should add that the psychosis specialist reviewed a recent CT scan of my brain he noted that my left ventricle was slightly larger than the right and slight frontal lobe atrophy (shrinkage). I was quite surprised as a CT scan I had performed in 2003 showed no such abnormalities. Anyways, he told me these abnormalities are typical of patients with schizophrenia. I may get him to compare my 2003 with my recent CT.

 

[university girl]

During my reading I have found a huge overlap between DPD symptoms (at least those reported on this site) and symptoms of schizophrenia (not of the delusional and hullicination type).

But..see, oh, good GOD, lol....this is what just kills me about the doctors you're seeing. Yes, you're correct - there are very many similar descriptive mental experiences in dp/dr states and schizophrenia.

BUT, then you add "not of the delusional or hallucination type" - THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT SCHIZOPHRENIA, lol....

Janine

Through all of this I am trying to remain open to opinions, ideas, etc. Thanks for your opinion Janine and others. Janine, I feel I should believe the psychosis specialist when he said that 1% of schizophrenics do not experience delusions or hallucinations. I just want to read it somewhere. I am going to try to find this written in the literature. If anyone comes across it before me, please let me know. After all, what if it's true? :wink: I must say, trying to diagnose someone who does not fit typical criteria is difficult. Maybe I am a new breed.

I often ask myself what I can lose if I try anti-psychotics... I briefly tried risperidal but decreased the dose after having problems with planning in my head. Because of this I am hesitant to try it again but I likely will. I know this side effect will go away if I decrease the dose. Of course I am also concerned of tardive dyskinesia but at low doses I believe it is uncommon. So, I don't have much to lose then do I? Well, I guess if the antipsychotic route is not the route for me then I will be losing valuable time trying them.

 

[ret]

Ok, I didn't bother reading the rest of the posts in this thread.

But, I just wanted to add that it might be worth seeing a consultant psychiatrist if your looking for a diagnosis uni. They cost more but at least they're not complete d!ckheads.

 

[Homeskooled]

Dear University Girl,
I'm looking over your symptoms now. True, all of them are experienced by schizophrenics, but to an incredibly extreme degree. Where you , and many others have social anxiety disorder, schizophrenics have "positive" and "negative" symptoms which make it impossible to interface with other humans or themselves. I might be able to see where they all are coming from,if you do indeed have brain atrophy. Its very rare in people our age. My latest MRI showed an increase in ventricular size, so I asked my neuroligist to check for atrophy. There is a very specific area where the frontal lobe connects to the temporal and parietal areas, which if the increase in size is caused by atrophy, will show shrinkage, scarring, etc...I didnt have any signs. Usually the only things in our age bracket which can do it are MS, alcoholism, and schizophrenia. I'm just not convinced that you have schizophrenia yet. If you did, it would be an incredibly early stage. Take that CT scan to an actual neuroligist and see what he has to say. As much as I want to go into psychiatry eventually, the psychiatrists are horrible with medical diagnosises. They just are. They're better at eyeballing intangible things, which isnt a real good thing either. Lastly, the porphyria I have may be to some sort of toxic exposure, and not genetic. I thought of you when I first got diagnosed. As a friend and someone who knows a little about medicine, I would ask to get my blood porphyrins checked. They too, can cause brain lesions. Okay, got to go, and dont worry too much. These things always have rational answers.

Peace
Homeskooled

 

[enigma]

Janine, I feel I should believe the psychosis specialist when he said that 1% of schizophrenics do not experience delusions or hallucinations. I just want to read it somewhere. I am going to try to find this written in the literature. If anyone comes across it before me, please let me know.

This describes various subtypes of schizophrenia, some of which do not include delusions or hallucinations as symptoms.

e

 

[enngirl5]

Uni, to me you seem like one one the most "normal" people on this site. Your speaking is so orgainzed and your symptoms to me just scream classic anxiety. Of course I don't know you, but if these are the symptoms your docs are basing all of this on I just don't get it. I don't think you have any form of schizophrenia and every time you mention it I'm thinking, she needs to find some new doctors. Quit going to doctors that one who thinks you are schizophrenic refers you to because more than likely they probably think alike on these matters. I would try a new doctor that is in no way connected to these others just to see what he/she says. I just don't understand this schizophrenic diagnosis you are getting.

 

[university girl]

I will attempt to get a neurologist to compare my CT scans. I'll let ya all know what comes of it.