[Guest]

As I'm exploring the dark pits of obsessions about mental health, I stumbled upon many articles on OCD saying that sometimes obsessors really believe their fears to be true...like: "Oh my God, I'm really going to hurt someone" or "I feel like this world is not real" "Are all people aliens?"
"I am going crazy" or millions of other horrible thoughts...so really, what's the difference with delusions, if delusions are firmly held beliefs and obsessions are strongly held too?
Also...I'm a bit confused in why delusions are considered ONLY a product of a psychotic break...I've read some articles where it's explained that many "normal" people have some delusions, both bizarre and non-bizarre; I don't understand... I always thought obsessions=neurosis, delusions=psychosis, but obviously it isn't always like this, can someone explain to me?
I'm not an expert of mental health but I'm trying to understand all I can in order to help myself winning my fear of psychosis (it's the only one left, after this one, I'm free!) , and to help anybody with my same fear!

P.S. Sorry if my posts are a bit monothematics :-(

 

[Guest]

Well, the short answer is that what you're doing in this thread is OBsessing! LOL>....

Your questions are good, and you make perfect sense, by the way. Here's a VERY short summary:

Many many people have delusions. I've got them from time to time, the people where I work have them, and every person in my family lived with them, lol....

Delusions do not mean "psychotic"

Delusions are unshakable beliefs that persist regardless of how illogical they are, or how much evidence you might find to the contrary. You believe them firmly, SIMPLY because you believe them. (they are of course, serving some deeper neurotic need, but there is not any reason to assume that a delusion = psychosis.

Delusions are imaginary beliefs.

What you're thinking of re: psychotic states is "hallucinations" - where the person sees or hears somethign that is not really there. It's sort of (very very loosely speaking) a delusion with sensory feedback. A person might have an Idea (delusion) that is pure fantasy, but someone in a psychotic state will add to the Idea (delusion) something they actuallY SEE or HEAR that corraborates the false idea.

Obsessing is just rumination - playing thoughts over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over ... and over and over and over in your mind. Sound familiar? You may or may not "believe" the idea you are obsessed with, but you still can't shake the obsessive thought even if it's not something you actually believe.

example: an obsession might be this: what if this world is not real? What if I am only imagining my life and everything around me? What if I'm not a real human being?

Creepy and disturbing ideas that many people with dp can't stop ruminating about.

IF, however, at some times you actually find yourself believing that you created the entire world, that would be a delusion. That is, however, not evidence that you are psychotic. I personally had MANY such secret delusions from time to time...I truly did believe at times that I was only imagining the entire world, and that nothing was real. I actually believed that. But I knew on some level not to tell anybody, lol..I knew it sounded crazy, but I still believed it. Then on good days, I realized it wasn't so. Then on bad days, I was back in the delusion.

If I was psychotic though, on those bad days I might have added "voices" to my delusion. I might have heard messages from the tv that 'told' me I was right, and that I was in fact imagining the world. Then I might see things, I might see aliens or ghosts that also told me I was right. Seeing and hearing things that are not there is a sign of some kind of psychotic state.

Make sense?

And....my MAIN point is this: you should NOT be reading info about what is psychotic and what is normal!!!!! Because....you're...obsessive!

Peace,
Janine

 

[Guest]

I'm pretty certain I know the difference according to a psychological
definition.

I personally believe that many,many people live their lives partly in delusion.
Some of the crap people say makes me wonder what mirror they are looking in.
The worst are those who think they are far more capable,clever,better looking etc then what they really are.

How did these people not learn humility?

Here on this board most people are busy putting themselves down in some manner.
My experience is the real world is full of spinners,dreamers and people outa touch with reality.
Perhaps I have this view because I live in a town that is considered new age.
:roll:

 

[Guest]

Thanks for your replies!
Janine, you're right when I say I'm obsessing in this thread, it's my fear of psychosis that makes me wanna know what I'm going through..."Know your enemy" they say, uh :roll:
In times of great fear like these I become G.O.T. (Great Obsessor Tau)...I mean, I've an horde of people telling me I'm fine and just an anxious guy with a great imagination and a greater ability to torture himself, I've many things to be happy for and what do I do? I obsess even more...that's really silly :-(
Also Janine, I wanted to ask you a thing if I may: in these last 2 months I'm experiencing more dp/OCD free periods, but when I have the symptoms, they tend to be stronger than before...it's sort of: less quantity, more quality :-( ...Is it a good or a bad sign in your opinion? Thank you in advance!

Shelly, I agree with you when you say that everyone is deluded about something, as everyone experiences reality in a different way! This is our greatest difference that makes every human being unique.
Also, 4 months ago, a counselor said me "You can think whatever you want to think...you've just to choose"; I never thought before that I could do or think anything...sometimes I'm pretty sure this is the cause of my "illness".

 

[Guest]

a counselor said me "You can think whatever you want to think...you've just to choose"; I never thought before that I could do or think anything...sometimes I'm pretty sure this is the cause of my "illness".

VEryyy common problem. Sometimes we believe that thoughts are THINGS, as if a thought alone can cause something to happen.

T'ain't so.

All humans have all kinds of awful thoughts - we have thoughts about killing somebody, or making someone miserable. We have competitive thoughts, desires to make others' (even nice people) envy us and wish they could be like us....we are far from saintly, we humans.

The counselor is exactly right. It's what we DO, the choices and actions we make, that count. Thoughts and twisted desires and dark fantasies are part of being human. More neurosis and pain have been caused, not by DOING terrible things, but by trying to pretend we don't ever THINK terrible things.

Love and aggression. the 2 main human drives.

The desire for pleasure
and
the desire to dominate/control, harm, destroy.

both are us.

Then we expect ourselves to mostly be "generous" and "giving" and "unselfish"

We can strive for those, but not at the cost of having to pretend we have no dark thoughts.

Peace,
Janine
p.s. your question: is it a "good sign" that the episodes are less frequent but more intense. HOwever, it is a sneaky obsessive question, grin. there is no right answer. one person's less frequent is another's worse than ever. Don't try to find signs and signals...just focus all that intellect OUTward!

 

[Guest]

Actually, I don't think I'm able to hurt someone etc....that was long ago. I found that, more terrifying than hurting someone, is making me try to believe absurd things (all people are aliens, people is out to get you...you know, that sort of things you find on the internet because you're not too smart to let alone mental illnesses symptoms :roll: ); I'm not afraid of the thoughts per se, but of my reaction to them, the terror that I'm going to believe them and act on them is what keeps me anchored to anxiety and obsessiveness...I've already passed the part where you are afraid of the thought, I think I've won that battle, winning the war for me is beating the "what if I'm going to believe it" sub-thought...it's the last obsession I have and the most difficult I've ever encountered. Do you had this one too?
Yesterday I've thought "I'm not going to lose...and worse, I'm not going to lose to myself!"...it made me feel strong, people don't know how I feel bad when I'm out, at work, or at the uni...but I hold on and continue to fight, and everyone thinks I'm a nice and happy person. I hope I'll soon be able to think about myself the same way other people think of me.
Ok sorry for the rambling, I would like everyone to get better and win this fight, and after I'm out of this tunnel, I would like to help all people I can.

 

[Guest]

I'm not afraid of the thoughts per se, but of my reaction to them, the terror that I'm going to believe them and act on them is what keeps me anchored to anxiety and obsessiveness

See, the quote above tells me that you may have handled MUCH of the set of fears that you will 'act' on your aggression or sexual impulses, but you're not totally done with that area yet.

I went through the same exact stuff.

It FEELS like what you're worried about now is whether or not you'll believe the world is unreal or other people are alien spies...but those are new symbols for old fears.

Our minds are very creative, and when we think we've mastered our own fear of loss of impulse control (in the sexual and aggressive arena) the mind might conjure up some very bizarre ideas re reality/unreality, dreaming/non dreaming/etc. as SYMBOLS for the same kind of stuff.

The KEY to your own fears is not in the details of the bizarre obsessions, but in the phrase above (your quotre)...you are afraid you will ACT on your delusions. Same ol' horror with a new costume.

Peace,
Janine

 

[Guest]

Janine,if some people are blowing their own horn to try and create envy in others,its a waste of time on me....I just roll my eyes and shake my head in disbelief.

I admit to feelings of envy and even jealousy,shock horror that's because I'm not nice :lol:

 

[Guest]

Janine, thank you for your advice! I've never considered my thoughts in that perspective! As we say in Italian, "sei grande!" (you are great!).
Thank you again.

Tau

 

[Guest]

That is exactly what I'm struggling with at the moment. I accepted all of my anxiety symptoms and am now working on DP/DR but I get scared of my truly insane thoughts and wonder if they are a sign that I'm psychotic... my thoughts are so bad that sometimes I ask myself things such as "what if I made up the world around me".. "what if this is some nightmare"...."what if people are out to get me".....and I know that these are not true but I'm scared that I'll start believing in them and that the fact that they even appear in my mind is a sign of psychosis since I can't shake them off and they scare me.
Do I accept them and hope that they'll go away or do I fight this or perhaps even get help?

 

[person3]

wow i didn't know the desire to dominate/destroy/kill was as present in the mind as the desire to love!