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What Janine means by DP

2547 Views 14 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  Idiot
Just wanted to clarify what I personally mean when I say "DP"

I am not talking about some vague confused state of questioning "is this the authentic me?" or existential questions about 'real' verus "fake" parts of ourselves. I do not mean (as a few people seem to define DP) a state of feeling "detached" from other people as if they all are more involved in life as opposed to being stuck in questioning the validity of life and its meaning. That is certainly all a problem, clearly...but that's NOT DP to me.

When I offer advice, suggestions, I am talking about the DP where I felt like I literally losing my Self - as if my soul or the entity that is "I" had somehow wafted out of its body - or was about to disentegrate - as if the ME I knew inside my head was not the same ME anymore, or that I had no ME at all left....I felt a strange bodily detachment, as if parts of my body were foreign, or belonged to some other entity - or that I couldn't FEEL RIGHT inside my own hands or experience of touching my own arm felt as if I was touching somebody else - or that the "toucher" (the Me inside my mind who decided to touch) was not the same, or was disappearing.

Pure terror and the most surreal kinds of distorted perceptural experiences that I imagine an LSD user might feel.

Also, other people looked "wrong' or not like themselves.
It was as if the entire world I was suddenly living in was DIFFERENT from the reality of yesterday....I felt like i had never SEEN grass before, or the sky looked as if it was now being seen from a different dimension or a parallel universe or something equally insane-sounding.

TO MY MIND, that was the DP of body separation from Ego and
the DP/DR of external world separation from Self.

Then it got worse.

On top of those two lovely experiences, I entered the Separation of Self from Ego. That was the deepest "level" of this hell for me - and in the same way that above, my body had split off from my Mental Self, and the External World had separated from my Perceiving Self, finally it seemed that an INNER mind/ego split occurred...whereby I was still AWARE of being a human being but the Identity Feeling (the central Ego) had been ripped away from that awareness.

I felt like I could give the right answers to live in reality,but no longer had a "ME" from which to experience my own existence.

Like a mirror inside a mirror inside a mirror...the external world broke off from me, my own body broke off from me and then "I" broke off from me.

And it STILL felt like on some horrific level, it coudl get even worse if I just waited long if even the shred of Self I had left could be further splintered indefinitely.

THAT was MY experience. So if the things I say in my posts don't speak to you, that does not mean you are NOT dp or that you have somethign ELSE, etc...we all experience it differently.

But my particular "brand' was DP and anxiety (in particular annihilation anxiety) and obsessive self-monitoring. That particular combination, coupled with a lifetime of living in fantasy alot, of wearing a mask with nearly everyone, of trying to pretend to be one way when I really felt another, of watching myself interact in the world all the time, WATCHING, evaluating, studying myself....all that added up to the particular DP experience that was me.

So when I say we must STOP self-scrutiny, etc. I am talking about someone in a state similar to what I describe above. Naturally, everyone is self-observant to some extent. But for me, and other similar obsessive types, we get our little jaws clenched around something and we refuse to let go. I REFUSED to stop worrying and questiong "am I real?"
"how do I KNOW I'm alive?" and "death? infinity? what will it feel like to be dead?" THAT stuff is the danger territory. And right alongside those questions are the tamer ones, but really wolves in sheep's clothing, such as "do I feel better today than I did yesterday?" or "Do I feel less real or more real than I did outside just now..."

Self-monitoring, using the mind and body as a THING to observe and guard and report on....very very dangerous for those of you who do not want to enter the depths of the abyss that I've seen all too well.

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Millions of human beings have found there is not nothing or no one at the bottom of the abyss.

Many people have never had the inclination or desire to call out for help when faced with the abyss and really know for sure that no one was there.

Unless you call out, you will not know for yourself that the abyss is really your highway to freedom.

The secret is that what we perceive in DP is not "false." We really ARE seeing a truth about the universe and all creation. You are not your body. No wonder you are given the temporary vision that your body is alien to you. It *is* alien to "you." Your body will die. If you didn't know that before down in your very soul, you know it now. Don't think that your body being alien is an abnormal thought. You animate "a" body, but you are not your body. Heck, you've already experienced that reality!

The only reason we hate DP is that we either don't know or forget who can help us now and forever. Including me, of course, who forgets all the time.
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I'm pretty sure that no one would be on this site for just having those "thoughts" -- I, for one, have experienced the same thing you did -- probably worse, LOL.

We are all more similar than we are dissimilar. Our experiences are more alike than we are aware.

Again, I know exactly what you mean and I don't think any human being would seek out this site for just the thoughts, which are usually just kind of fun to entertain.

No, it's the immediate experience that brings us here -- we could even say "the reality" that we experienced.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
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bright23 said:
Sojourner ? I think you really need to follow Janine closer on this one. You keep insisting on DP as an optional way of looking at the world, like some sort of interesting perspective that only produces distress when we are weak with Fear and Panic.
Bright, I think you really need to follow what I am saying and perhaps what Janine actually said. She talked about what it is not -- just "thoughts" -- it's the experience she wrote about. Yes, I know it. She
wrote, and I quote her: "This is MORE than "thinking certain kinds of thoughts"

My mind CAUSED within itself an EXPERIENCE of LIVING those thoughts, not just Thinking them."

And in case you missed this: "I can sit here right now and have those thoughts or enter into some existential discussion about reality and the human experience and subjectivity.... " That's what I was referring to when I wrote about "kind of fun."

bright23 said:
I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but I think you just might be lucky enough not to have had depersonalization, as its defined DSM-IV. Anxiety and Panic Attack DR yes, but not DP.
I have said right along that I get DP with panic attacks only and ever since I found that I could take Ativan to get RID of it, I don't suffer with it, which may explain why I have been urging people to NOT accept it but to get medicine to remove the symptoms. Then, and only then, find out what's causing it.

Actually, it's DR that I probably don't have, because I do NOT see through a veil or think that my body is strange. It is my SELF that turns into some alien thing that I cannot even name that happens and all the rest.

bright23 said:
The shift to full DP experience is so dramatic, terrifying, uncontrollable that the idea we can think our way out of it while its happening, that its happening because we won't face the REAL issues, is insulting. I can only draw the conclusion from your writings that you don't relate to the DP experience.
I know, Bright, and I refuse to not take medicine when I get a panic attack. It it hell itself and those who say they are "living with it" strike me as having something a lot less terrifying than what *I* experienced. So there you are.

Type on a message board when I had DP? Inconceivable!

bright23 said:
You obviously belong on this website, many of your posts are very helpful. Don't take this the wrong way, we all only want to help each other here.
Yes, I agree. Try to believe that when I say I agree with someone and that's how I feel, that I'm not just saying it. Why would anyone do such a thing? Nobody would.

The terror Janine describes, the terror and uncanniness of it all, yes, I know what it's like, but frankly, anyone who can come here and say they have what I experienced right this minute while they're typing is kidding themselves. It's so terrifying that one cannot DO anything but quake and run to stop the torture.

I'm not saying that we all have identical symptoms, however. When I come here I do not have anxiety or DP. I'm feeling rather good, actually.

I won't even tolerate 5 minutes of feeling a panic attack is coming. It isn't worth it. I never have DP anymore because I do not accept having it, and I would suggest that the longer people try to "live" with it, the less likely they are to ever get better, because they have given up hope and acclimated themselves to misery.

Bottom line, misunderstandings always happen, even among the most articulate people. I never said anything about thinking your way out of it; if you think I did, please show me where exactly and I will attempt to explain what I was trying to say -- what you clearly misinterpreted.

You cannot THINK your way out of it -- that's for sure. They told me to let the feelings "wash" over me and they would leave on their own. It did not happen, so drugs -- big deal, at most .5 mg Ativan every other day -- is my choice because I absolutely refuse to accept living in hell. God has provided a temporary respite via drugs and I am grateful.
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I do not understand you...but I love you anyway....
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