[Guest]

Just wanted to clarify what I personally mean when I say "DP"

I am not talking about some vague confused state of questioning "is this the authentic me?" or existential questions about 'real' verus "fake" parts of ourselves. I do not mean (as a few people seem to define DP) a state of feeling "detached" from other people as if they all are more involved in life as opposed to being stuck in questioning the validity of life and its meaning. That is certainly all a problem, clearly...but that's NOT DP to me.

When I offer advice, suggestions, I am talking about the DP where I felt like I literally losing my Self - as if my soul or the entity that is "I" had somehow wafted out of its body - or was about to disentegrate - as if the ME I knew inside my head was not the same ME anymore, or that I had no ME at all left....I felt a strange bodily detachment, as if parts of my body were foreign, or belonged to some other entity - or that I couldn't FEEL RIGHT inside my own hands or head....my experience of touching my own arm felt as if I was touching somebody else - or that the "toucher" (the Me inside my mind who decided to touch) was not the same, or was disappearing.

Pure terror and the most surreal kinds of distorted perceptural experiences that I imagine an LSD user might feel.

Also, other people looked "wrong' or not like themselves.
It was as if the entire world I was suddenly living in was DIFFERENT from the reality of yesterday....I felt like i had never SEEN grass before, or the sky before...it looked as if it was now being seen from a different dimension or a parallel universe or something equally insane-sounding.

TO MY MIND, that was the DP of body separation from Ego and
the DP/DR of external world separation from Self.

Then it got worse.

On top of those two lovely experiences, I entered the Separation of Self from Ego. That was the deepest "level" of this hell for me - and in the same way that above, my body had split off from my Mental Self, and the External World had separated from my Perceiving Self, finally it seemed that an INNER mind/ego split occurred...whereby I was still AWARE of being a human being but the Identity Feeling (the central Ego) had been ripped away from that awareness.

I felt like I could give the right answers to live in reality,but no longer had a "ME" from which to experience my own existence.

Like a mirror inside a mirror inside a mirror...the external world broke off from me, my own body broke off from me and then "I" broke off from me.

And it STILL felt like on some horrific level, it coudl get even worse if I just waited long enough...as if even the shred of Self I had left could be further splintered indefinitely.

THAT was MY experience. So if the things I say in my posts don't speak to you, that does not mean you are NOT dp or that you have somethign ELSE, etc...we all experience it differently.

But my particular "brand' was DP and anxiety (in particular annihilation anxiety) and obsessive self-monitoring. That particular combination, coupled with a lifetime of living in fantasy alot, of wearing a mask with nearly everyone, of trying to pretend to be one way when I really felt another, of watching myself interact in the world all the time, WATCHING, evaluating, studying myself....all that added up to the particular DP experience that was me.

So when I say we must STOP self-scrutiny, etc. I am talking about someone in a state similar to what I describe above. Naturally, everyone is self-observant to some extent. But for me, and other similar obsessive types, we get our little jaws clenched around something and we refuse to let go. I REFUSED to stop worrying and questiong "am I real?"
"how do I KNOW I'm alive?" and "death? infinity? what will it feel like to be dead?" THAT stuff is the danger territory. And right alongside those questions are the tamer ones, but really wolves in sheep's clothing, such as "do I feel better today than I did yesterday?" or "Do I feel less real or more real than I did outside just now..."

Self-monitoring, using the mind and body as a THING to observe and guard and report on....very very dangerous for those of you who do not want to enter the depths of the abyss that I've seen all too well.

Peace,
Janine

 

[mcsiegs]

Janine - this post really resonated with me. What you described was exactly the hell I experienced when I had DP. You go so far into the abyss and before you know it, there are layers upon layers upon layers. The ego disattaches, and when you think of "me", the "me" doesn't know the "I"

I am so glad to be DP/DR free these days (4 weeks now!). Your advice has especially helped me. Bless you, Janine. Bless you.

 

[Sojourner]

Millions of human beings have found there is not nothing or no one at the bottom of the abyss.

Many people have never had the inclination or desire to call out for help when faced with the abyss and really know for sure that no one was there.

Unless you call out, you will not know for yourself that the abyss is really your highway to freedom.

The secret is that what we perceive in DP is not "false." We really ARE seeing a truth about the universe and all creation. You are not your body. No wonder you are given the temporary vision that your body is alien to you. It *is* alien to "you." Your body will die. If you didn't know that before down in your very soul, you know it now. Don't think that your body being alien is an abnormal thought. You animate "a" body, but you are not your body. Heck, you've already experienced that reality!

The only reason we hate DP is that we either don't know or forget who can help us now and forever. Including me, of course, who forgets all the time.

 

[Guest]

But, see..for ME, DP was not just a result of thinking those kinds of thoughts.

I can sit here right now and have those thoughts or enter into some existential discussion about reality and the human experience and subjectivity....

But I will not enter the mental state that I was trapped in during my symptoms.

I just want to reiterate to people that the EXPERIENCE I had while under the sway of DP was MUCH MUCH MORE than just looking at the world and my identity in some new skewed fashion.

IN DP, the BRAIN undergoes a shift in the state of ordinary consciousness - that may be because we have a tendency, ability for dissociation, I don't know what the hell it is, lol...

But my DP state was a literal manifestation of kinds of ideas mentioned above. It would be like saying "what if I wondered how it might feel to freeze to death?" and then suddenly be shivering and losing body temperature.

MY BODY and MY BRAIN literally "matched" thought-for-thought, and concept-for-concept every horrific existential idea. My brain was (just like in a dream state) CREATING an actual SENSATION that mirrored the idea.

If someone has not had this, they could never ever get what I'm saying.

This is MORE than "thinking certain kinds of thoughts"

My mind CAUSED within itself an EXPERIENCE of LIVING those thoughts, not just Thinking them.

Anyone can question "what if the world is not real?" But I could FEEL the fabric of the concept of an unreal existence.

Anyone can say "how do I know I'm me?" I could FEEL the sensation and cold deep terror of being Aware of breathing and existing but somehow NOT being "I"

It was like some sinister, vicious prank - in which every horrible thought I came up with suddenly used my brain and body as a STAGE to express itself in actual perceptions.

Okay, done now, lol. I just don't want people to be confused and think that I'm suggesting DP is "only" having certain obsessive thoughts in your head. I am saying that IF you are in a dp experience, you cannot afford those thoughts anymore (at this point in your life. I can have them now and I'm fine with it).

The thoughts FEED the altered experience, but there IS an experience of DP that is WAYYYY beyond just having thoughts about the universe.

 

[Sojourner]

Janine,

I'm pretty sure that no one would be on this site for just having those "thoughts" -- I, for one, have experienced the same thing you did -- probably worse, LOL.

We are all more similar than we are dissimilar. Our experiences are more alike than we are aware.

Again, I know exactly what you mean and I don't think any human being would seek out this site for just the thoughts, which are usually just kind of fun to entertain.

No, it's the immediate experience that brings us here -- we could even say "the reality" that we experienced.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

[bright23]

Sojourner ? I think you really need to follow Janine closer on this one. You keep insisting on DP as an optional way of looking at the world, like some sort of interesting perspective that only produces distress when we are weak with Fear and Panic.

I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but I think you just might be lucky enough not to have had depersonalization, as its defined DSM-IV. Anxiety and Panic Attack DR yes, but not DP.

The shift to full DP experience is so dramatic, terrifying, uncontrollable that the idea we can think our way out of it while its happening, that its happening because we won't face the REAL issues, is insulting. I can only draw the conclusion from your writings that you don't relate to the DP experience.

You obviously belong on this website, many of your posts are very helpful. Don't take this the wrong way, we all only want to help each other here.

 

[Kelson12]

I agree totally to Janine and Sojourner....but I am to the point in my life that I just can't bear living with this crap much longer. Each time it comes back in full force, I feel that much closer to ending it all, because the shift in reality, emotions, perception, emotions, tiredness, feelings, everything, is such horrifically drastic that I don't know how I even handle a second of it, let alone the fact of dealing with it on and off for more than 5 years.

 

[DM]

Excellent description.

However - I use different metaphors.

The jar. A bubble.

Stuck in 'something' which holds me back while I see live passing by.

The jar & the bubble are actually self-constructed limitations on participation in life. Self-construted borders. If I would pass those borders some horrible (imaginary) things would happen to me.

And in your mind you are a different person. The one who is living the life you would be living if everything would be perfect. Perfect conditions.

But, the imaginary effects of living that ;life (ie being yourself) are almost apocalyptic (in your fantasies).

So no moving. Hence..

Analyzing the jar, the cage, the bubble.

Chomping meds, visiting psychs, looking for 'ways', complaining and feeling more and more desperate.

What is it? And then...it is called DP! I am afraid of DP! No - DP is the self-constructed cage!

Analyzing the effects of limiting thoughts. Being afraid of...fear itself!

In the same time feelings want something else and they want to engage in the parade passing by. All those people passing by - happy with stupid earthly matters ;-)

Life us calling.

And we are looking for ways to break that cage - hell; there is no cage. Yes, in our brain...

 

[Sojourner]

Sojourner ? I think you really need to follow Janine closer on this one. You keep insisting on DP as an optional way of looking at the world, like some sort of interesting perspective that only produces distress when we are weak with Fear and Panic.

Bright, I think you really need to follow what I am saying and perhaps what Janine actually said. She talked about what it is not -- just "thoughts" -- it's the experience she wrote about. Yes, I know it. She
wrote, and I quote her: "This is MORE than "thinking certain kinds of thoughts"

My mind CAUSED within itself an EXPERIENCE of LIVING those thoughts, not just Thinking them."

And in case you missed this: "I can sit here right now and have those thoughts or enter into some existential discussion about reality and the human experience and subjectivity.... " That's what I was referring to when I wrote about "kind of fun."

I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but I think you just might be lucky enough not to have had depersonalization, as its defined DSM-IV. Anxiety and Panic Attack DR yes, but not DP.

I have said right along that I get DP with panic attacks only and ever since I found that I could take Ativan to get RID of it, I don't suffer with it, which may explain why I have been urging people to NOT accept it but to get medicine to remove the symptoms. Then, and only then, find out what's causing it.

Actually, it's DR that I probably don't have, because I do NOT see through a veil or think that my body is strange. It is my SELF that turns into some alien thing that I cannot even name that happens and all the rest.

The shift to full DP experience is so dramatic, terrifying, uncontrollable that the idea we can think our way out of it while its happening, that its happening because we won't face the REAL issues, is insulting. I can only draw the conclusion from your writings that you don't relate to the DP experience.

I know, Bright, and I refuse to not take medicine when I get a panic attack. It it hell itself and those who say they are "living with it" strike me as having something a lot less terrifying than what *I* experienced. So there you are.

Type on a message board when I had DP? Inconceivable!

You obviously belong on this website, many of your posts are very helpful. Don't take this the wrong way, we all only want to help each other here.

Yes, I agree. Try to believe that when I say I agree with someone and that's how I feel, that I'm not just saying it. Why would anyone do such a thing? Nobody would.

The terror Janine describes, the terror and uncanniness of it all, yes, I know what it's like, but frankly, anyone who can come here and say they have what I experienced right this minute while they're typing is kidding themselves. It's so terrifying that one cannot DO anything but quake and run to stop the torture.

I'm not saying that we all have identical symptoms, however. When I come here I do not have anxiety or DP. I'm feeling rather good, actually.

I won't even tolerate 5 minutes of feeling a panic attack is coming. It isn't worth it. I never have DP anymore because I do not accept having it, and I would suggest that the longer people try to "live" with it, the less likely they are to ever get better, because they have given up hope and acclimated themselves to misery.

Bottom line, misunderstandings always happen, even among the most articulate people. I never said anything about thinking your way out of it; if you think I did, please show me where exactly and I will attempt to explain what I was trying to say -- what you clearly misinterpreted.

You cannot THINK your way out of it -- that's for sure. They told me to let the feelings "wash" over me and they would leave on their own. It did not happen, so drugs -- big deal, at most .5 mg Ativan every other day -- is my choice because I absolutely refuse to accept living in hell. God has provided a temporary respite via drugs and I am grateful.

 

[person3]

DES!

What is UP? Long time no see on here. God damned recovered people going out and doing other shit...the nerve.

So glad to see your post!

 

[Milan]

Janine wrote,

I felt a strange bodily detachment, as if parts of my body were foreign, or belonged to some other entity - or that I couldn't FEEL RIGHT inside my own hands or head....my experience of touching my own arm felt as if I was touching somebody else - or that the "toucher" (the Me inside my mind who decided to touch) was not the same, or was disappearing.

This one scares the living s**t out of me. When the panic starts the fear is something I can't describe. Imaging your moving but it's not you doing the moving. And trying to get yourself out of this state is so hard. Totally relate.

It was as if the entire world I was suddenly living in was DIFFERENT from the reality of yesterday....I felt like I had never SEEN grass before, or the sky before...it looked as if it was now being seen from a different dimension or a parallel universe or something equally insane-sounding.

Especially hate this one. How things can look so different; different also in the sense that you simply don't get the reality around you. It simply makes no sense and looks so strange and odd. Every mental construct you had of your environment breaks and then your left pondering what is this stuff. Again very scary and hard not to focus on.

Janine I'm so glad your on this board. What would we do with out you?

 

[Martinelv]

Sojourner - inherit my role as chief s**t-stirrer. I have to be good from now on.....

 

[Sojourner]

Martin,

I do not understand you...but I love you anyway....

 

[rainboteers]

This is how DP is for me as well, and without this forum I would have checked myself into a hospital. (things are starting to get better though)

 

[Idiot]

my dp is worse than yours. NO! MY DP is worse than YOURS!!! NO!!!!!!! MINE IS WORSE.

tee hee

this is interesting, though. I suffer from something, which seems at times more like a strong disconnection, but with which i also have very screwed up perception. For instance, I don't think i've ever have had an actual thought manifest itself into my perceptions of the world, but i do experience the odd feelings in day to day life, and without a doubt i know the severing of ego and self. This is one of the most crushing things about it for me. But there is nothing totally disabling about my condition. I would instead describe it as ... hmm... just not being along for the ride