[Tres]

Hello CoolWhip27,

Again, my post was meant to be answered by a simple response to help others. Your long-winded non-answers just show that you are not committed to the cause and are, in fact, a barrier to people getting help on this site.

I regularly help people who suffer with dpd/drd to recover with real, tangible methodology (including myself) whilst you continue to parrot a zen philosophy.

I sincerely hope that someday soon you lose the "I know everything" complex and open a book. Hey, you can even kill two birds with one stone and figure out how to use the english language correctly. I am just so tired of you wanna-be philosophers sounding as obtuse as Jordan Peterson with as many wordy sentences as a Russel Brand podcast trying to present yourself like a monk.

I accept your answer. "Acceptance". Okay, cool. The rest is you trying to prove you're my intellectual equal, which you clearly are not. I bet you'd shit yourself if I even started mentioning cited sources or anything tangible to back up anything you've said on this post.

Go home. I have nothing else for you here besides corrections. And clearly, you do not take criticism well. Hey, I guess Peter is right, we're made for each other. You= Me=.

 

[coolwhip27]

Hello CoolWhip27,

Again, my post was meant to be answered by a simple response to help others. Your long-winded non-answers just show that you are not committed to the cause and are, in fact, a barrier to people getting help on this site.

I regularly help people who suffer with dpd/drd to recover with real, tangible methodology (including myself) whilst you continue to parrot a zen philosophy.

I sincerely hope that someday soon you lose the "I know everything" complex and open a book. Hey, you can even kill two birds with one stone and figure out how to use the english language correctly. I am just so tired of you wanna-be philosophers sounding as obtuse as Jordan Peterson with as many wordy sentences as a Russel Brand podcast trying to present yourself like a monk.

I accept your answer. "Acceptance". Okay, cool. The rest is you trying to prove you're my intellectual equal, which you clearly are not. I bet you'd shit yourself if I even started mentioning cited sources or anything tangible to back up anything you've said on this post.

Go home. I have nothing else for you here besides corrections. And clearly, you do not take criticism well. Hey, I guess Peter is right, we're made for each other. You= Me=.

So, “blah blah I am your intellectual superior blah blah”? Both of us know that egotistic talk means nothing, but I don’t expect anything more from you because that’s what this conversation has been. Obviously we ARENT made for eachother, which is why I suggested we stop earlier. It’s not one-sided buddy, you’ve been just as involved in the bullshit talk as I have. At least I’m wise enough to admit what this really is. I am home, and im not going anywhere. With all those cited sources and stack of knowledge you claim to have in the chamber, you fired none of it. I bet that hurts. Since you’re so out to hurt me, if you did have anything that would make me “shit my pants”, you’d gladly explain this oracular view. But you’re all talk. A big waste of my time. Keep shooting blanks at me buddy, I’ll still be here.

Personally I think you should go home. You’ve gotten outwitted every time as I’ve ran circles around your sluggish mind.

 

[Tres]

Hello CoolWhip27,

There is just 0 chance of me taking the time and effort to compile that for you. Correcting you and messing with you is something im happy to do. Wasting time offering you the answer that you aren't going to accept is a whole different thing. We're already at this point in this conversation. Do you honestly think I believe that you're capable of being convinced with facts?

Anyways, while it was fun i'm actually getting bored now because the novelty has worn off. When you come to your senses just go back to my other post and you can have the cure for free. I'd recommend screenshots for a rainy day.

And I still like to think we are meant for each other. You're like the ignorant self-obsessed yin to my fact-based yang 😎😎☯ Or maybe you're actually me but in like another universe where I wasn't properly educated. Who knows?

Anyways, depersonalization/derealization has a cure. I know because not only did it work for me but it also works for my clients all the time. I know because I took the time to educate myself with actual books and journal articles. I know because once you understand what's happening it's so obvious. Keep spreading your rhetoric that's as scientific as "you can fix schizophrenia by accepting your hallucinations" and I'll keep spreading the facts based on simplistic biological understanding.

I swear to God it's like, no wonder so many people have this disorder for multiple decades. You can fix dissociative disorders but you can't fix ignorance.

P.S. Remember to screenshot the answer!

 

[coolwhip27]

Hello CoolWhip27,

There is just 0 chance of me taking the time and effort to compile that for you. Correcting you and messing with you is something im happy to do. Wasting time offering you the answer that you aren't going to accept is a whole different thing. We're already at this point in this conversation. Do you honestly think I believe that you're capable of being convinced with facts?

Anyways, while it was fun i'm actually getting bored now because the novelty has worn off. When you come to your senses just go back to my other post and you can have the cure for free. I'd recommend screenshots for a rainy day.

And I still like to think we are meant for each other. You're like the ignorant self-obsessed yin to my fact-based yang 😎😎☯ Or maybe you're actually me but in like another universe where I wasn't properly educated. Who knows?

Anyways, depersonalization/derealization has a cure. I know because not only did it work for me but it also works for my clients all the time. I know because I took the time to educate myself with actual books and journal articles. I know because once you understand what's happening it's so obvious. Keep spreading your rhetoric that's as scientific as "you can fix schizophrenia by accepting your hallucinations" and I'll keep spreading the facts based on simplistic biological understanding.

I swear to God it's like, no wonder so many people have this disorder for multiple decades. You can fix dissociative disorders but you can't fix ignorance.

P.S. Remember to screenshot the answer!

What a lovely little story. I’m sorry I only read half of it, but I’m glad you’ve finally admit defeat. That’s right, there’s zero chance of you expressing something you haven’t thought of, and another zero chance of you dissecting what you can’t comprehend. You’ve clearly shown that with your bitter non-compliance to even acknowledge what I know is a cure. Goodbye my little cupcake, goodnight sleep tight

 

[Tres]

You could do a lot better than that. I mean, it's a closing statement. You're ending it on "goodbye my little cupcake?" Say something...idk...funny. Or....something.

Like if it were me i'd lean into the fact that you're stupid and say "you only read the first half of my post because it was too hard for your illiterate ass". Y'know?

I mean...cupcake? Oh! And I was going to mention the grandma comment earlier but I thought it might be a typo but now im not so sure. If you're aiming for the neck then aim my guy. Talkin about some damn "okay sleep tight butterfly". I mean...c'mon man that's stupid even for you.

 

[Tres]

I laughed so hard when I saw this comment on your other post 😂

 

[Tres]

Like bro, please just fix your dpd and go home so I can stop reading these posts that sound like an epileptic animal is seizing on the keyboard. Please. You called my bluff, you're too funny to stop messing with so please save me from my own curiosity of what you'll say next.

 

[Saschasascha]

There is a german professor and doctor who wrote a book about depersonalization. It basically says that people with DP have a huge affect phobia. There are certain affects, whether you conciously know it or not, that get surpressed. Becoming aware of those affects and learning to feel the whole range of affects and emotions again could be really helpful. This can be done by long term psychotherapy. Its how Im slowly improving a tiny bit after suffering from this disorder for over 20 years.

 

[coolwhip27]

Mods, delete this piece of shit thread. Or just delete our petty little fight. It doesn’t deserve to be on this site meant to help people

 

[Peter]

There is a german professor and doctor who wrote a book about depersonalization.

It's Matthias Michal.

It basically says that people with DP have a huge affect phobia. There are certain affects, whether you conciously know it or not, that get surpressed.

However there is zero evidence that people with depersonalization disorder actually have affect phobia or that affect phobia exists or is a meaningful concept. He did not invent this idea himself (in fact I doubt that he ever had any ideas himself), but borrowed it from a psychotherapist called Leigh McCullough. She wrote a book about it, which Michal translated into german language, where affect phobias are portrayed as the universal cause of almost all mental disorders. Im comparison to this bold claim the evidence falls flat, since the book does not really present much of anything.

Becoming aware of those affects and learning to feel the whole range of affects and emotions again could be really helpful. This can be done by long term psychotherapy.

Likewise there is no evidence that psychotherapy actually treats affect phobia or that improving affect phobia is the mechanism by which psychotherapy improves mental disorders.

 

[Saschasascha]

I got a lot out of his book and as I said I have made improvements.with affect-focused therapy. I also relate to the concept that DP is a defense mechanism against shame-related affects, an ego defense against unbearable pain.

 

[Saschasascha]

But I agree with you that it isnt the reason for mental illness per se, I for example have had OCD since I could remember. Later on developed BDD. Out of the blue seemingly.
I can only tell you that you shouldnt be so dismissive immediately and just give it a try: to focus on your authentic affects and emotions. Im sure many people with DP can relate with the concept of a false shameful self and thus shameful emotions and a real, authentic self. Learning to get access to your true emotions could be helpful for people with DP imo.

 

[Peter]

I also relate to the concept that DP is a defense mechanism against shame-related affects, an ego defense against unbearable pain.

Which is also almost entirely pulled out of thin air, just like almost everything of psychoanalysis.

I can only tell you that you shouldnt be so dismissive immediately

I think it's appropriate to be dismissive towards Michal and his approach. It's one thing that his treatment approach lacks any empirical support and is not even logical. But it's another thing that he seeks to prevent sufferers from obtaining biological treatments like lamotrigine and naltrexone, although they actually have some empirical evidence.

 

[Saschasascha]

Strange though that I got tons of people on dpdr that related to the concept of their "false self" overshadowing their true self/ their core emotions. It isnt that "WOO-WOO" after all. Just a person denying their core emotions over years due to high sensitivity, genetic predisposition towards anxiety, trauma etc.. And it is definitely helpful to get towards those emotions. Whether they are the cause or just a symptom of the disorder, approaching your own emotions and defense-mechanisms was really helpful for me. Like I said, I have had this disorder for over 20 years and I am making slow improvements slowly.

 

[Peter]

Strange though that I got tons of people on dpdr that related to the concept of their "false self" overshadowing their true self/ their core emotions.

That you are knowing "tons of people" who agree with your perception is something I cannot check, so it does not make any contribution to the discussion. Even if it was correct, people's self-perception of themselves does not necessarily match what's really going on. In fact it has been shown that you can give people questionnaires that put them into arbitrary categories and many believe the results. That's why things like Myers–Briggs Type Indicator are popular among ordinary people, although it's hogwash. Moreover people with depersonalization disorder are often desperate, because their disorder is severe and psychiatrists don't give shit about them. Once after years or even decades of suffering they meet a person like Michal, who pretends he figured everything out, many are probably receptive for whatever explanation he gives to them, no matter how non-sensical is is in the end.

It isnt that "WOO-WOO" after all.

This already starts with the term "self", which is vague and there is no real agreement what the self comprises and what not.

Just a person denying their core emotions over years due to high sensitivity, genetic predisposition towards anxiety, trauma etc..

However there is no reasonable explanation why the "denial" (whatever that means) of emotions should lead to emotional numbness or even depersonalization. In particular Michals explanation, that people with depersonalization are anxious and therefore observe themselves to shut off their emotions, is nothing but ludicrous.

 

[Saschasascha]

Do you notice how you arent able to accept any other opposing viewpoints and have to immediately pit yourself against others? I honestly believe You would be the perfect person for psychotherapy and would do indefinitely better going out, living life and interacting with real people than argumenting with strangers 24/7 online or talking down on a professor and doctor who is clearly much much more knowlegeable than you are. Take care.

 

[Peter]

Do you notice how you arent able to accept any other opposing viewpoints and have to immediately pit yourself against others?

What would be the outcome of me "accepting" other opposing opinions? That I keep my mouth shut, when I disagree with other's opinions? Why should I do that?

I honestly believe You would be the perfect person for psychotherapy

Already tried it and it was useless.

and would do indefinitely better going out, living life and interacting with real people than 24/7 argumenting with strangers

The same old argument...

or talk down on a professor and doctor who is clearly much much more knowlegeable than you.

Someone being more "knowlegeable" doesn't make them immune to criticism. It's also nothing more than appeal to authority.

 

[Saschasascha]

The same old argument rings true though. I did it combined with psychotherapy and here I am. After 23 years, finally getting better. Must be because Michals thoughts are useless?
And anyone reading this thread: Hope you value the opinion of a professor that has been reasearching DP for many many years and actually has an own clinic over the opinion of someone random on the internet that is clearly depressed and depersonalized. And has some ego problems.. maybe.

 

[Saschasascha]

And again, to everybody: not saying that it will cure you or even help you. But it COULD potentially help you.

 

[Peter]

The same old argument rings true though. I did it combined with psychotherapy and here I am. After 23 years, finally getting better. Must be because Michals thoughts are useless?

I have read his book (I even have all 4 editions) and almost all of his publications. From all of this I could not find a trance of any reasonable treatment approach, not to mention any evidence. His ideas about depersonalization and it's treatment are for the most part illogical and at some points contradict with themselves or empirical results about depersonalization disorder. Example: Michal claims that all patients have fluctuating symptoms, although studies found this only to be a minority. He claims that patients do not notice their symptoms fluctuating, which is quite odd, because he also claimed that patients constantly observe their symptoms. He is contradicting himself.

You can't trump all these problems with the claim that your symptoms improved due to a psychotherapy based on his ideas. This also does not take into account that possibly most other people might have gone down the same path without having improved. Generally in the german depersonalization community the opinion on Michal and his clinic is quite divided. Some talk positively about him, his special consultation hour and a stay on his clinic, but in most cases without reporting improvement of the depersonalization itself. The other side made negative experiences and frequently expresses harsh criticism on Michal and his clinic, which in some occassions I actually found to be quite shocking, but in line with my image of Michal.

And anyone reading this thread: Hope you value the opinion of a professor that has been reasearching DP for many many years and actually has an own clinic over the opinion of someone random on the internet that is clearly depressed and depersonalized. And has some ego problems.. maybe.

In my opinion people should look at the quality of the arguments or the lack thereof and not at what person stated the arguments.