[coolwhip27]

Exactly. I think people on here who claim there is no way out are basically manifesting a future negative reality before themselves. Cognition plays an important role in my suffering of DP, I know when something negative is occurring in my thought.

 

[coolwhip27]

I agree that it's good to have a positive outlook about it, because obsessions can probably feed DPDR, at least this is my experience. But it is important to not fall onto the other extreme: to think that one can get out of it through wishful thinking, or that if someone cannot find the way out it necessarily means they are being negative. In order to draw these conclusions we should have a deep knowledge about DPDR, but we are not even researchers in neuroscience or psychology, and even them don't really know. Some people have had it for a long time (it's called depersonnalization disorder), not all of them are being negative. And perhaps for some there is indeed no way out. Unless we are in everybody's mind we cannot know for sure, and we cannot pretend to know what we don't know just for the sake of positivity. Personnally my knowledge about myself and the disease needs to have solid ground. I prefer to admit what I don't know and live with it rather then make up beliefs and not trust any of them completely because I know I made them up. I have been running in that loop of believing and being disappointed for too long. I prefer to learn to be comfortable with not knowing. To the contrary, I think that making up our own truth is a kind of pessimistic path, because we don't trust that reality will be bearable.

I don’t think it’s about being positive, wishful thinking is not it. However it is ultimately and ONLY up to the individual to recognize and become aware of what manifests their depersonalization. DP is in no way a stand-alone disorder. Chronic DP happens because WE are disordered. So then, do you still think people have the right to say it’s unbeatable then?

 

[coolwhip27]

I am not sure I understand the analogy completely. To be clear, I am not saying that there are any cases that are impossible to cure. Nor that we should give up trying. Some people will die with this illness and some others won't. For those who died with it, we will never know if they could have tried something else successfully or if they could not be cured at all. So we don't know. And all I am saying is that if we don't know we cannot claim that we know. We cannot say that some forms are impossible to cure, and in the same way we cannot say that all forms can be cured.
Personally I am fed up with my own fantasies. I want to live in reality. And if reality is that we don't know, then I wanto live in that reality and accept that I don't know. That being said, I keep trying, because if there is any chance I can be free from it I want to find it.
The fact that I defend the idea that some people might not be curable doesn't mean I know (nor think) there are any, nor that I am one of them. I just don't want to pretend knowing the things I don't know.
I don't want people to think they can't be cured when they can. And if some people can't be cured I want them to be accepted and not blamed for where they are in life. The solution to all of this is to just accept that we don't know. To encourage everyone, and not blame anyone. I mean blaming them for example by saying they necessarily have a negative outlook on their life and this is why they are here.
Anyway, if anyone has had this for decades I can imagine they have a negative outlook (I am not part of them, I keep trying and I have hope). Maybe they have a negative outlook because it lasted too long for them and not the other way around (not everyone is like this guy).
Again, I don't understand why me defending this idea means I am whining about my own case. Actually I am trying lamotrigine + SSRI now and it is partially working so far. So please don't misunderstand what I am saying. And even if I wasn't recovering, my point still stands.

Anyway, even if some people are being negative about their recovery (and this is irrelevant to the point I just made) why should it bother other people so much? No one needs to hate negative people to fuel their own positivity, which would be paradoxical anyway. It is like the paradox of people who quit smoking and start hating those who still do. They quit but they are still addicted.

Edit: Anyway, thanks for the name of Santos Barrios. I didn't know him and will check him out.

His analogy was pointing to the idea that depersonalization is, globally (for everyone) the result of something we control yet keep doing.

Your analogy of losing your legs and not knowing how to recover them maintains truth so long as it actually IS impossible to recover from DP for some. But I disagree, we can all agree that depersonalization disorder occurs in the mind and not our legs, therefore we ARE in control.

Whether or not we recognize whatever it is which creates our DP is dependent on us (of our own thoughts), whether it’s anxiety, ocd, fear, or some other mental distortion. It has to be something occurring in the mind, not nothing. Your narrative about it being a mystery is wrong. And the law of attraction is real, but it doesn’t mean that positivity is the only thing required. You have to find yourself out of the jungle to find out what that means.

 

[coolwhip27]

You really want to compare depersonalization to something like Parkinsons? If I’m hearing this right, you are in denial of what DP is. Even so-called “experts” will agree that DP has nothing to do with degradation of biological processes, LOL. By being aware of the definition DP implies and a little bit of common sense (no Superman experts needed), you can see that YOU, YOUR mind is disordered. Not unavailable background biological processes, I’m talking about the conscious mind. So What’s that mean? It means there needs to be a complete mutation of the self, an actual change within ourselves to overcome the disorder. I don’t care how many experts you’ve studied or how much extensive research you’ve done, you can’t tell me im wrong. it is still belligerently arrogant to say that just because I don’t have sufficient (good enough) evidence for yourself means I’m wrong. Oh it’s because the experts said so. But who notified them? What exactly is evidence anyway? Articles on the internet? Seriously, just stop

I care about the truth. Not giving people a right to say they’r incurable. The fact is that EVERY SINGLE PERSON who beats DP says the same thing. It is US who have to change ourselves. People like you don’t want the truth, too caught up in semantics and arguing.

 

[coolwhip27]

You are saying that it is normal not to have control over Parkinson's disease because it is due to biological processes and not "due to the mind". But you nicely picked on Parkinson's disease and left all the others out. So how about schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, severe depression, narcolepsy, hypnagogic hallucinations, sleepwalking, amnesia, low IQ, autism, or some types of aphasia, or being high? Plus some imbalence in some neurotransmitters have been identify for DPDR. In all these diseases they all have distorted minds and still they can't change themselves by shear will and a "change of the self". So your assumption that "disortion of the mind" can be cured by "a change of the self" is just proven wrong by all these examples. So you need to use something else. It's not that it's not sufficient for me, it's just that that assumption, that theory, is just wrong given the number of counter examples. And also I am not into consciousness pseudoscience.
I don't see why you would be better at analyzing DPDR than researchers that analyzed more cases than just one as you did with yourself with your "distorted mind". The few articles I have posted are 1. a scientific paper, the second one is a webpage written by David Spiegel (a quick search to see all his scientific publications about depersonalization Google Scholar and if you do a research about depersonalization itself, you find 115 000 scientific publications, and just try to count how many are very relevant to DPDR depersonalization https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=fr&as_sdt=0,5&q=depersonalization&btnG= ) I am talking about scientific articles, like results of studies. Do you know how this works? It's their freaking job. What is your job? Accounting? I am not talking about the research I have done, I am talking about the research they have done, not by asking for some patient's opinion or by waiting to be "notified" by them, but by doing actual studies themselves. Do you know how this works? If just having the disease makes you smarter than them, why don't you go there to teach them? Yes, I can tell you you are wrong. I am just doing that now. How arrogant can you be to think you know better than scientists... Why don't you go there and replace them all? Fire them all and teach everyone the truth, you will save the world. Talk about being arrogant...
And, no, some people who "beat" DP do so thanks to medicines and not the way you say. Some recovered by doing a lot of sports. Countless people say they recovered spontaneously and they don't know why. You are throwing away all the evidence that doesn't match your theory just based on your theory itself. If anyone says they have recovered not the way you say, you will still argue that they did but don't realize it. You are disregarding the evidence that doesn't go along with your theory and wonder that everything proves your theory is right... And also you are only considering people who did recover, again only to confirm your theory. But how about people who did not recover during all their life, since this is what we are talking about? How do you know if they could have recovered since they didn't during their lifetime? Of course they will not confirm your theory nor disprove it, precisely because they didn't recover during their lifetime. And you will say that they could have recovered if they did this and that. How could you know how they could have recovered since they didn't? If there existed a from of DPDR that could not be cured (and I don't know this) you would have the exact same result as we have now. Some people just don't recover during their lifetime. Just the same. So this is just your theory and there is no way you can prove it. Actually nobody knows for sure, and this is my whole point. This is all I am saying. Maybe you are right about them but how do you know? You don't know. I don't know. That's all.
Again, I am not defending that some people can't recover. I am defending that nobody knows. Especially if we are not researchers in that topic.
And since you say we should "change ourselves" and not be "caught up in arguing", just change yourself by yourself and stop being caught up in arguing with me. Stop saying how you will recover but didn't yet. Show me how it's done. Actually don't show me. Just do it and let me argue.

I made one claim. That is, the mind itself is the ultimate cure. Constantly seeking out help to beat disorders that are rooted in the mind is counterproductive to one's self. For they are teaching themselves that to be in control of their own mind is an impossible task. See? You ask me how its done, but there is no "straight-line" process for everyone, is there? We already agree on that. And you may not be able to witness first-hand somebody going through a complete mutation of self on their own, simply because you are not them. But this is not conscious pseudoscience, the mind is either operating on disorder or it is a free mind. The elephant in the room when it comes to disorders such as these, is that if psychiatrists and doctors insisted that the answer is in you then the people who are disordered would have nobody to turn to. Look around you, trith. People seek help in every direction, and you will find that the minds rooted in fear, disorder and confusion are not turning to themselves. This is a very simple claim, and it should not need to be stated twice. You insist that we cannot know if it is possible for everyone, but that claim is in denial of the facts. Yes, there is no doubt that medicine can be useful and help the brain encourage positive processes. I am not stating that some people are not in such mental agony, but why are they? Fear, guilt, blame, and all negative processes in a mind WILL encourage them to be miserable. You can try look at it objectively all you want, yet it is ALWAYS the mind itself that decides to change which will gain its own freedom.