[leminaseri]

one question. how can you speak for people who have this for decades, while you did have it only for 3-4 months?

 

[leminaseri]

That's right. I don't believe in the law of attraction. Manifesting a positive outlook doesn't solve all problems. Of course there is a way out for a lot of people, there are a lot of examples here and I have never seen anyone who denied that. But how do you know if people who say there is no way out for themselves are just manifesting a "future negative reality" before themselves? How do you know they are not simply telling the truth? What experience do you have that prooves there is no one in the world who will have this forever? When someone has lost their legs, nobody tells them they should believe their legs will grow again just for the sake of positivity. And as a matter of fact they can even have a positive outlook on their life without believing their legs will grow back. This is irrelevant.
And yes, DPDR is often a symptom of another disease. But specialists do say that DPDR can also be a stand alone disease. They call it depersonalization disorder. Elaine Hunter talks about it in her book ( Overcoming Depersonalization and Feelings of Unreality (Overcoming S): Anthony S. David, Dawn Baker, Elaine Hunter, Emma Lawrence: 9781845295547: Amazon.com: Books ) . She is the head of a department in a clinic in London who only treats patients with DPDR. She is a specialist in this field and has studied this in university, she has 20 years of experience about this disease and has probably seen and treated hundreds of patients with DPDR. She says that sometimes DPDR can be caused by panic attacks and even if you manage to stop the panic attacks and make the person free of anxiety, sometimes DPDR stays the same, and then they call it DPDR disorder and it is indeed a stand alone disorder. But my own psychiatrist did tell me that it could not be a stand alone disease, but he also exhibited a terrible lack of knowledge about DPDR. He could not even understand what a feeling of unreality could mean, he thought it was a philosophical problem and was clearly not up to date about it.
So what is your source of knowledge to say it cannot be a stand alone disease? Where did you get this information from?

Also here
"Researchers don’t know what causes these disorders. In up to half of the cases, healthcare providers cannot identify what triggers the disorder. "

Depersonalization/Derealization Disorder: Symptoms & Treatment

Depersonalization/derealization disorder is a common dissociative disorder. If it’s interfering with your life, you may need treatment.

my.clevelandclinic.org

Or here
"Depersonalization/derealization feelings are considered a disorder when the following occur:

• Depersonalization or derealization occurs on its own (that is, it is not caused by drugs or another mental disorder), and it persists or recurs."

Depersonalization/Derealization Disorder - Mental Health Disorders - Merck Manuals Consumer Version

Depersonalization/Derealization Disorder - Learn about the causes, symptoms, diagnosis & treatment from the Merck Manuals - Medical Consumer Version.

www.merckmanuals.com

Or here
"The disorder tended to be chronic and persistent. Seventy-one per cent met DSM-IV criteria for primary depersonalisation disorder. "

Depersonalisation disorder: clinical features of 204 cases - PubMed

Depersonalisation disorder is a recognisable clinical entity but appears to have significant comorbidity with anxiety and depression. Research into its aetiology and treatment is warranted.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

almost everyone who recover tell the same and similar things. and almost everyone who tell they have it for 60 years are the same negative personality as well.

i think accepting something is not that easy, that people can say „nah bro i accepted it for 20 years and it is still there“. your metaphor with the legless man was good. but i will give you another here. if you chase your ex girlfriend, until you make the clear and 100 percent decision to accept, that she will never come back, you will never forget her. and to call her every month once or twice is contradicting with „i accepted that she left me“. for me acceptance is „well i have those symptoms and this is my destiny so i have to accept it and look for good things at life.“ the man who didnt have a leg anymore could cry all his life why he lost his leg and whine and bitch everyday. but he could also be like this man here:

this picture above does not mean that he miraculously got legs. but he could also lay at home and search a forum for bionic legs and innovations.

this is just my opinion. i dont know what others think. but if santos barrios recovered after 35 years, this alone means to me that this illness is in particular curable. because if santos barrios would have a version that is „soft“, he would recover on its own after 6 months (like many others here). and i watched his spanish videos as well and he did consistently various things and tried so much. so he achieved his recovery and he can be proud about himself. no one gifted him his recovery. there is one philosophical incontradictable thing: you can never try everything at life time. there is too much to try at an average lifetime. but i think with the negative thinking „no matter what i do my life is shit“ and „im a victim of my illness“ this person wont get anywhere at first place.

 

[leminaseri]

It's not because it is in the mind that we have control over it. Look at schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, epilepsy, parkinson's disease, severe depression, narcolepsy, disability caused by brain damage, hypnagogic hallucinations, sleepwalking, amnesia, dementia, low IQ, autism or some types of aphasia. I am not saying that DPDR is related to any of these diseases, but they are just counter examples to your assertion, showing this is not always true, which means you cannot apply it for sure to DPDR. You could argue that some of them occur "in the brain and not in the mind", and that because DPDR occurs in the mind then it is different (which is a dubious assertion as the mind occurs in the brain too until proven otherwise). But even if we admit that "mind diseases" are curable (and you would have to define precisely what a mind disease is) you have yet to prove that DPDR is in the mind for everyone. This is just a bold assertion.
And you are saying that the law of attraction is real without providing any argument. But what is asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. So I will just say that the law of attraction isn't true and my assertion is as valid as yours.

"Your analogy of losing your legs and not knowing how to recover them maintains truth so long as it actually IS impossible to recover from DP for some. "

I didn't make this analogy to prove that DPDR can't be cured, just that some problems can't be cured and that doesn't necessarily mean that people who have them for all their life have a negative outlook on their life. I am not saying that it is the case for DPDR, just that there are cases where it is true, which means that one cannot say that every person who has a disease for all their life have a negative outlook on their life, nor that their disease is caused by a negative outlook. So it might very well be the case for some people who have DPDR until proven otherwise.
But read me well, I didn't say it was impossible to be cured for some people, just that we don't know. And even if it was true that all of us can be cured, it's not us non specialists on an internet forum who will prove it. If one could understand the mechanisms of a disease just by having it therapists wouldn't exist.

im fine with your thoughts actually, and its reasonable to an extend. but, for example, people with severe depression can also suffer lifelong from it. but it is never the main theme. „depression is highly likely a lifelong thing.“ is never discussed not in psychiatry and also not in the media. it is believed that depression can be beaten and it is very dependent on the lifestyle and attitude of one patient. and i think it is a similar case when it comes to dpdr.

you mentioned schizophrenia. 33 percent of schizophrenics do have only one psychotic episode. and i dont believe at this statistic that much, the dark figure should be much higher. while the other 33 percent is counted as recurrent, means more than one episode at life, which could be also 2 or 3.

long story short, i believe the vast majority of people recovers from dpdr. just like at depression. and if someone suffers his whole life from depression, this doesnt mean that depression is not curable. that means, that some people have bad luck at life, or maybe, they didnt try hard enough. and i believe there are so many people who got rid of dpdr without seeking any help, so they havent been counted in the statistics.

when it comes to scientific evidence, and what it does prove at all. here is an interesting opinion:

Then sense-data spoke up: “What assurance have you that your reliance on [reason] is not like your reliance on sense-data? Indeed, you used to have confidence in me. Then the reason-judge came along and gave me the lie. But were it not for the reason-judge, you would still accept me as true. So there may be, beyond the perception of reason, another judge. And if the latter revealed itself, it would give the lie to the judgments of reason, just as the reason-judge revealed itself and gave the lie to the judgments of sense. The mere fact of the nonappearance of that further perception does not prove the impossibility of its existence.”

 

[leminaseri]

I just had to respond to this by saying: I’m loving this quote with “sense-data” and “reason-judge.” What is it from?

you can read anything from imam al ghazali. dont know if you heard from him but hes one of the biggest philosophers of the history.