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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been wondering about this... I've experienced DR (possibly with DP) 24/7 since I was 14, now for 15 years. In the beginning my condition didn't include any anxiety, depression, obsessive thinking, fear of becoming crazy etc. I just felt I had an invisible icy wall in between myself and the world around me. However, later in my life I started to suffer from severe depression, and I had had low self-esteem since my basic school days due to bullying. I also had to go through PTSD and an acute psychosis bc of some unlucky events a few years ago.

Luckily I have now conquered all those unfortunate things in my past and I have nothing wrong with my self-esteem anymore - I enjoy my studies and life in general and could say I'm happy in my current life without a trace of depression.

But... the tricky thing with this is the fact that my DR is like it has been since 1989, no improvement. I don't think about it, I just live. I don't think that focusing outward would make my DR go away, bc I really have nothing wrong with me with that thing. I focus outward normally every day, and I don't even think about it, it is just natural for me. But DR is still there, though it hardly bothers me much nowadays - I have become used to it during all these years.

The only two moments, when DR vanished completely in my life since 1989, lasted for about two seconds each.

The first DR-free fleeting moment happened when I was 17 and joined in a Buddhist meditation course in Finland's countryside. I felt I had found people who really understand me, i.e. are on the same wave-lenghts with me (later to be proven wrong). I was walking alone in nature during the course, and suddenly felt alive, completely DR-free with the aid of self-suggestion. I was THERE and there was NO icy wall! The real feeling stopped very soon after it had started, similarly in an instant.

Another one of my DR-free moments happened also in nature, when I was candyflipping (tripping on LSD and Ecstasy) with my new boyfriend and his friend on an island near Helsinki. When we were euphorically climbing on the cliff in the sea shore, I felt the sudden change in my perception again. I was ALIVE, completely there, without any icy wall in between me and the world! At the same moment I also felt those two other people understand me, are going to be life-long friends for me, being on the same wave-lenghts. Happily my feeling of understanding was fifty-fifty correct this time, and I have been in relationship with my boyfriend for five years now, next summer for six years.

Though I don't experience anxiety/panic/depression/etc. I have found that I still have a huge fear inside. I believe the fear is linked to my DR, as my greatest fear is to be alive, DR-free in the world and be alone, really alone with noone to see me, understand me. Indeed I believe this fear of being mentally alone keeps me DR'ed behind this icy wall. I fear that if I somehow could "wake up from this DR dream" and feel life real again, there would be noone to welcome me back, noone to see the change in me, noone to SEE me. Then I would really be all alone, even among my loved ones. :(

Why is this fear in me? What does it mean?

I have thought maybe it is bc my mother was alcoholic when I was 6-9 years old, and I was the only one in charge in my family, taking care of my mother and my littlebrother. During those years I really was alone. I have also thought maybe it is my basic school years, when I was constantly bullied there and had to feel being an outcast. But I don't really know.

If anyone might have some insights regarding this thingy, I would be most grateful. Please respond, this is a thousand dollar question for me, though it doesn't interfere with my everyday life. But still I secretly wish, almost without hope, that someday I could feel life without this isolating icy wall again...

Is it possible? If you think it is, please tell me how and why?

I believe the fear is linked to my DR, as my greatest fear is to be alive, DR-free in the world and be alone, really alone with noone to see me, understand me. Indeed I believe this fear of being mentally alone keeps me DR'ed inside this icy wall. I fear that if I somehow could "wake up from this DR dream" and feel life real again, there would be noone to welcome me back, noone to see the change in me, noone to SEE me. Then I would really be all alone, even among my loved ones.

I feel the same way sometimes. being dr-free alone in the world. It's frightening and I understand that very much. I think it's a way to protect us from the real world, who can be rude, nasty, boring, you know. Unconsciously I think DR is a little window of safety from the real world, like is we were proctected in a certain way from the harsh reality. Problem is, we don't have control over this window, how to open it and be in the real world again. It's a pattern so easy to have, so easy because we are so sensitive and don't want to be hurt really, and face our real problems.

Unfortunately I don't have the key yet but just wanted to say I understand what you are saying!

C xxx

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Cynthia said:
Unconsciously I think DR is a little window of safety from the real world, like is we were proctected in a certain way from the harsh reality. Problem is, we don't have control over this window, how to open it and be in the real world again.
Thanks for the reply, Cynthia. :) I agree with you 100 % with this, also I have come to think that DR/DP is a way to feel safe in the world, which can be nasty. And like you I realize this window, or icy wall, is so deceiving safety mechanism bc one has no control over it. One cannot just decide to feel safe enough in order to get the icy wall melt away.

I have thought I may have serious issues of trust/feeling congeniality within, for some reason. I have come to this conclusion, bc both of my DR-free moments happened when I thought I have people around me with whom I can be 100 % myself, to trust and be trusted, to be understood. I thought I was absolutely on the same wave-lengths with the people I was interacting with at that time, when those DR-free moments happened.

First time I was completely wrong, second time I happened to be with my lifemate and I was partly right in my assumption. But...

Though I have seen life together with my boyfriend now for five years, I haven't felt so secure since the LSD+Ecstacy trip on the island that I could trust him seeing me, if I suddenly became DR-free again. I don't know why... I fear even he can't see what I really would go through if I someday would become alive again and the icy wall around me would melt away.

I have no understanding why I am this suspicious, having so much distrust within me. I don't know if therapy with a sympathetic, understanding therapist could help me. If any of you would think to give it a go, please tell me. Please also respond if you have any other insights after reading all this text... What should I concentrate on to change my situation, what to do to achieve a DR-free life?

If I will try therapy, it will be in the future, after I have graduated and found work. However, I'm not at all sure is it a good idea, bc I guess I may never find a right therapist for me, and wouldn't like to pay $$$$ for nothing. Do you think time has a healing capacity alone, without in-depth therapy?

I have a couple of good friends, a loving boyfriend and a warmhearted family. What am I waiting for? Why can't I trust my boyfriend/close relatives/friends that much, so I would feel alive, safe, understood and truely seen with them? I guess my boyfriend might have the capacity to see me, even when I would be DR-free, but deep inside I don't trust it - I fear the opposite option so much that I simply can't even try it. This is something I have difficulties to understand.

Any replies would be greatly appreciated... :eek:

Dear Ninnu

I have just read your post and can relate to much of what you have said. I want to re read it some more and give it some thought. Then I will respond.


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I dunno know you well, so sorry if I?m jumping in to answer this?I just read it and felt like we have so much in common.

My only guess at why you feel you?re suspicious and mistrust people would be because of your alcoholic mom, and I say that because I had an alcoholic (at times violent) dad. Psychologists say that early childhood experiences to a large degree shape the way we see the world forever (maybe therapy helps, I dunno, I?ve never been.) As kids we?re supposed to trust and look up to our parents, and if that?s a problem early on, we develop trust issues. We also start to judge harshly (in black and white) cuz we needed and expected perfection from our parents, and they failed us.

I was never bullied as a kid, but being an atheist family living in a muslim country was enough to create that outcast feeling you mentioned. Even within my large family (10 kids!), I was always different, the ?quiet? one, the peace maker. I coped by convincing myself that I am different and I will never be like everyone else. In a way I built my own icy wall of separation, while at the same time still wanting to be understood, and seen, just like you, just like all human beings. The problem is that I spent years separating myself by concentrating on how different I am from everyone and never looking at what I have in common with people. It was only on ecstasy that I would stop judging, stop looking for the negatives in people, even their flaws that I despised were suddenly human and beautiful.

If you?re using x as therapy, then imho you should come out of the experience knowing that happiness/comfort is simply a shift in perception. The same friends you didn?t feel close to once can feel extremely close on x when YOU choose to see the positive in them. Maybe it would help to get rid of the illusion that it?s necessary (or even possible) to be totally on the same wave-length as someone else to be happy and safe. It might help to just start paying attention to what you have in common with people, without letting all the differences disappoint you. I too have to work on letting my guard down; I wish I had more answers for you.


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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi Rula,

lots of thanks for replying my post! And my apologies that this reply is so delayed - it is always like that with me, when I have to think before posting... I can really relate to what you tell about yourself in your post, so please don't feel sorry at all replying me - I appreciate it very much. :)

What you say about early childhood experiences and trust issues, I think you must be right. I remember when my mother started drinking, I tried to hide her alcohol problem from everyone cuz I didn't trust anyone. Although my mother stopped drinking when I was nine, my life was never the same. It was like my life was "switched to another TV channel", cuz nothing was discussed - it was like the sad period in our family had never happened. I was nine too, when I changed school and my new classmates started byllying me - so one long-term distress was replaced with another one at that time.

When I was fourteen, the last friend of mine started look down on me like the other classmates, and I have come to think that there may be a connection with the onset of DR, as I was fourteen when I first started experiencing DR too. I wanted so much to be accepted and not to be an outcast, but during my basic school years it never was possible. Thus I believe the loss of my friend during the age 14 might have been the last trigger for my DR - I guess my psyche couldn't handle the stress without detaching myself from my surroundings as a safety mechanism.

However, though I never experienced DR as a child, I'm pretty sure my childhood experience of mother's alcoholism must have had an enourmous effect on my life - like what you mentioned in your post that the ability to trust is built in early childhood. Indeed I have found I still have some trust issues - during the Ecstasy trip last summer I found out that I hardly believe that my friends really like my company even now. It was a great surprise to me, as I had thought I have already been able to overcome that thing!

I agree with you about the Ecstasy self-therapy; about realizing that happiness and comfort is just a shift in perception. However, instead of socializing on MDMA, for some reason I prefer being in the solitude of nature and enjoying trees, plants, ants etc. and just focus on them without any people in the nearhood. For some reason also in the best childhood memories I have of Finland I was always alone in nature too - even before my mother started drinking. However, when I was 4-yr-old, my family lived in Norway for a year and there I had a friend with whom I somehow felt being exactly on the same wave-lengths. She spoke Norwegian to me and I spoke Finnish to her, but still we understood perfectly each other. Since we moved back to Finland, I have never experienced that kind of connection with anyone anymore.

I guess I secrectly wish that I still would be seen like my Norwegian childhood friend could see me, but at the same time I'm not at all sure is it even possible. I don't know why love and understanding my boyfriend has for me seems not to feel enough for me at the moment, but I'm working on it. I guess my boyfriend might really have the capacity to "welcome me back to life"; rejoice with me if I someday could become DR-free - but I realize I can't hope for the kind of connection to happen like I had with my Norwegian friend as a child. Being an adult is too much different from being an open-hearted child, I guess. :?:

What you said about paying attention to what I have in common with people apart from seeing the differencies is a very good idea indeed. With time, I wish I could start trusting my boyfriend - and other people in my life - that much, so I wouldn't be afraid of being mentally alone in my life anymore and thus could finally make my icy wall of safety melt away. Let's see...

Still one more thanks for your reply, I appreciated it very much!

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