[indigo-alice]

Hi everyone

So I am about 2 months down the line in my wonderful journey with dpdr - most of the symptoms have cleared up, I feel in my body most of the time, things look real enough which is progress - but at the moment I am really struggling with the Existential thoughts.

I have really struggled with whole Solipsism thing and stuff to do with the universe - how big it is, how it could end at any second, you know all of that fun stuff. I am pretty much over that now, it still gets to me sometimes but I can deal. I've also dealt with being trapped in first person view, not being able to understand the "self", not recognising myself in the mirror. The focus of my thoughts now is about how the brain works and understanding time and memory. I just can't get over the fact that this moment is all we really have and after each second it just becomes an intangible memory in our heads - we can never be sure if anything actually happened. It is really hard as I will look back at how far I have come from when this shit all began, but then question if any of it has even happened at all. Call me crazy but this whole experience has made me think that my existence is some kind of experiment, I've just been created and put on this world that doesn't make any sense at all and whatever has put me here wants to see how long I can take it until I go insane. Seriously, though - it is really hard because whenever I actually enjoy doing something, I'll come back home and immediately start questioning if it happened at all - and the fact I will never get that moment back. It's like I exist with all of these happy memories but they're almost there as a form of torture - I can never fully appreciate them as I will never be sure they are real. For example I'll be having a conversation with someone and they'll ask how my day was, and as I'm recalling what I've done my mind is constantly doubting everything I am saying. So much of our day to day experience is built up from recalling memories - the physical world would make no sense without them. I'll wake up in the morning and hear a car outside - but the only reason I know that is from memory... I know it seems like common sense but there's something about it that scares me? Has anyone else dealt with and got over stuff like this? I guess if I've gotten over the whole Solipsism syndrome I can get over this - but then again, did that actually happen? Again - the problem with it is that all the things I use to reassure myself rely on memory, things I have read, conversations I have had etc.

I used to love my life so much and love talking with my family, boyfriend and friends about memories we share - but now everything just seems ruined. I can't just enjoy the moment without thinking about how it's going to be over soon. The concept of time freaks me out so much. I feel so sad and broken and I just want to be able to embrace my life and not doubt everything constantly. I want to be able to wake up tomorrow morning and just think "Yesterday happened, lets get on with today" instead of analysing if me and all of my memories have just popped into existence. I feel like I'm far too self aware of my thoughts - I'm worried that one day my brain is just going to collapse in on itself - brains aren't supposed to turn inwards and start interrogating themselves, right?

To help with the thoughts about Solipsism and stuff, you could say I used my own kind of Exposure Response Prevention therapy, I just kind of accepted that the thoughts were unfalsifiable by nature - I gradually accepted them and even told myself they were true, and as my brain stopped over-reacting to them my logical brain was able to kind of take over again. I'm pretty sure I've always had some from of Pure O OCD, ever since I was little I've had periods of obsessive thinking about various themes; Existential is definitely the worst one. It's just so exhausting battling my mind all the time, there are so many contradictory thoughts in my head every second of the day. It honestly just feels like every little thing I thought I knew about life is slowly being unravelled - the nature of the self, the nature of time, space and everything. I feel like I'm discovering some kind of profound truth about everything - but it's so damn depressing instead of enlightening. It's so sad because these topics used to really interest and inspire me, but now they're just terrifying and make me want to never leave my bed. Although I still do - every day.

Any help would be appreciated.

Alice xx

 

[indigo-alice]

 

[Al_pk]

Hello Indigo-alice,

I am sufferring exactly the same with time, memory, the universe and death.

Time is my biggest problem, and I find it hard to describe exactly how freaked out by it all I am. I have come to exactly the same realisations with it as you have... so much of life just exists in memory. Every action we take is just a fleeting moment that will soon turn to nothingness. Honestly this is all on my mind all day, and I have the same thing going through my head about this being a solitary moment that will be over soon, whenever I'm doing anything.

I had a full on mental breakdown over this, it has not left my mind for a waking moment in 1.5 years. I felt trapped by time. I take medications which have helped me get rid of some of the worst symptoms.

The biggest problem I've found is that these realisations are correct - i had solipsism before and at least with that you can say it's bullshit, but not this. What you're freaked out about is all real, it's the true nature of the cosmos. It is the nature of time

I was so bad with it all my mind became frozen solid with terror and it was completely outside of my control. Over time i have managed to regain control. But I haven't yet regained my emotions to allow me to enjoy things.

It does get better but the timescale depends on how bad you are. I focused on getting as much rest as possible.

You've got to try and live your life as normally as possible whilst allowing your brain the rest to get rid of the anxiety

I wish i could go back to before this all began but I'm much better than when this first hit

 

[indigo-alice]

I'm just so helpless at the moment - I am just about to finish Uni and used to be so excited about going out and getting a job and starting my life but now everything just seems so pointless. Its hard to even say that because "used to" doesn't hold any meaning as the past could just be fake. I'm so sick of this, I just want to be ignorant to all of these existential questions, I wish I had never thought about any of this.

 

[Al_pk]

Alice i suffer exactly the same and I know full well how much mental torture it is. I completely understand when you say it is hard to say 'used to'. I find it hard to talk about what i was just doing, what i was doing yesterday etc. I have a very real fear and phobia of the past. Of course, i know what I was doing just now or yesterday, but the knowledge is uncomfortable. I can no longer just casually reminisce on my memories and knowledge. It's like it all carries danger and it is dangerous to access it.

I don't even know who i am anymore because who i am is just a collection of behaviours and memories spread out over time that now exist only in the annals of memory.

I have known of two others aside from me who have suffered with the time thing. You are the fourth.

It is the worst thing imaginable to overcome. it is life, you can't exactly ignore it.

It all started for me when I had DP one day and I was looking at my phone in my garden. When i put it away my brain thought - where did that go? From there, my brain completely melted and absolutely everything became associated with this fear of time and memory. Around the same time i went out on a night out, and when i came home i casually started looking back on the night out but my brain was like "ugh" - i tried to sleep it off but it got so much worse in the coming weeks. How did it happen for you?

I will say all is not lost. The thoughts are torturous but the mechanics of your mind are still working. Your old brain is still in there, as is mine.

It's been an incredibly long and drawn out process for me, 1.5 years on and I have a job interview this week so I am just starting looking for work. That's 1.5 years of life and experience i have completely lost to this.

They say no pain can last forever and I am now just waiting for my noggin to reorganise itself into something comfortable which it has been doing. I'd say I'm about 60% recovered now which is uncomfortable with bucket loads of pure o still but it is enough to function.

I'm not sure it's a door that can ever be fully closed. For me, it has been a huge thing and I couldn't imagine being happy again. but, if you are willing to fight you can reclaim your life.

Without time and memory, life couldn't exist. That, and telling myself time doesn't exist sometimes helps

And Ps. Your written explaination was excellent. I am often at a loss of how to describe it but you hit the nail on the head.

 

[Al_pk]

If you feel you are getting worse and it becomes unbearable I am always here Alice. It's a horrible thing but I've been through the worst of it, and I'd be happy to give you help and support in any way possible as I know what it's like

 

[indigo-alice]

It feels good to know I am not alone, thank you I'm not really sure when or why this particular fear started, I had come across it before on this forum - but I never really thought it could be something that I could worry about, but yet here we are! My fears have come in waves, first it was Solipsism, then it was the end of the world and the vastness of space and now it's this time thing. Something that helps me is to just think of the chance that we have of being here in the first place. For whatever reason, we are something rather than nothing and although it is mind boggling and there are things we can never understand, we have to just live and appreciate the crazy hand we have been dealt! That's how I got over the Solipsism thing and I am hoping that this is how I can get over this particular issue. With any fear, from the fear of spiders to this particular fear of time - one of the most effective ways to get over it is to expose yourself to it. Talk to people about your day, even if you're doubting it the whole time. Really the issue has the same root cause of any obsessive thought; it is an issue or a question that has no definitive answer. When I was scared about the world ending I just made myself watch documentaries about it happening and although it still scares me, my brain doesn't see it as something to flee from anymore as I voluntarily exposed myself to the thoughts without running from them. With Solipsism I just told myself "Hey, if no-one else is real the least I can do is interact with them like a big game of sims!" and eventually it didn't scare me as much and everything began to feel real again and my logical brain took over. I think if we are to enjoy life we just have to learn to accept uncertainty - or turn it into curiosity rather than fear. We'll never understand time properly, unless there is some kind of scientific breakthrough (maybe you or I can crack the code!) but until then we just have to try our best. I think people that have this issue are often very abstract thinkers, and I think a lot of my problem (I don't know if it is the same for you) is that I have too much time to think, so I am looking forward to getting back into a routine as I'm currently on a break from Uni.

Good luck for your job interview! It is really great you are looking for work again, when your brain has something to do the thoughts are less intense, for me anyway, and work will bring a sense of routine which will help I'm sure.

Thank you for your responses, it really does help to know I am not alone in this. We will be okay

 

[indigo-alice]

This video also really helps me deal with the intrusive thoughts, both with this theme and others I have struggled with.

 

[Al_pk]

With solipsism and the cosmic existentialism stuff, it was like my brain was too weak to handle the concepts when I was in DP, but as i got stronger i could handle them better again and they became curiosities.

For some reason, time has been altogether worse and i'm a little way off feeling good about life, but my approach was much like yours in that I've been forcing myself to engage with my day as a kind of exposure therepy. That means it's now at a 4-5 on the ricter scale, rather than a 12.

You are absolutely right about appreciating our place in life and what a mind boggling improbability it is. And yes, it's about re growing a tolerance for uncertainty but for me, i have to be realistic and think about my recovery in years rather than weeks or months.

We're certainly not alone. Despite how all consuming it feels, there are people out there who have taken this on and won. It is a rare theme though, i've been skulking about on this forum for about a year, i see solipsism 2-3 times per week but you're the first to mention the time thing in all that time. Thanks for reaching out.

Thank you, yes i could do with less time to myself nowadays. It does somewhat help with the thoughts but not 100%. Good luck back at uni. I still have a degree to finish off when I'm well enough too!

 

[Al_pk]

Ah thank you for the vid, that's excellent

 

[Emptyflask]

I suffered this for a long time too, i think i still do to some extent. I felt it helped me to get more reconnected with my body and to realize im more than just this conscious thing made of memorys and experiance, it helped to remember that i think and feel and am an actual tangible thing with experiances that really happened. The nature of self, consciousness and life is a real mindfuck for sure, but it is natural and a real part of this weird reality as a whole.

 

[Al_pk]

Emptyflask how long did you suffer? And how did you get out?

 

[Cedric]

The video really shows what many think is the strong connection between long-term DPDR thoughts and OCD, really interesting, thanks for posting it

 

[indigo-alice]

Hi everyone, I just wanted to give a little update and hopefully give you guys some hope if you have been struggling with similar issues to me

Since this post I have been trying my hardest to live my life and stay away from these forums as much as I can - and I am beginning to see improvements. I have moved back to Uni and even though it has been really difficult, I have been making myself go to classes and go out with friends no matter how terrible I feel, and I am glad to say things seem to be slowly looking up. Talking about memories with friends has helped me to realise that this is the nature of human experience - we are all the same. We all store our own timelines within our minds, and while these moments are fleeting and only last a short while but they are stored inside us forever and help us to make sense of the world. Trying to figure out the nature of time in my own head seemed impossible, but in going out and living in the world again and connecting with people it has started to make sense again and click back into place. These types of obsessive thoughts are impossible to logic your way out of, you just have to experience life and everything will work itself out eventually. I'm definitely not 100% yet, quite a way from it, but my attitude towards this whole ordeal has improved massively and I think that is the key to getting out of this.

Anyone struggling with this similar obsession, or just DP in general: I know all you may want to do is stay indoors and hide but please, please force yourself to get out into the world again. No matter how horrible you feel nothing can hurt you. I promise. I was literally sat in class the other day and I felt like I was about to spin off into another dimension, faint, and go psychotic all at the same time and I was terrified. But I just let myself sit with those feelings and guess what - I made it through the class and came home and felt so proud of myself. Getting back into a routine has been really helping too. When you have nothing to do all day time does seem weird, as you are literally just watching every moment pass, but since making myself go out and do things this has become less of a concern, as I am not simply watching time but living in it and making the most of it.

Keep going

 

[Al_pk]

I wanted to ask how you are doing. I'm glad you've been feeling a bit better about it. It's a really pernicious theme to get caught up in. Time and memory are probably two of the most fundamental cornerstones of human life and you do not realise this until you have anxiety over it.

It took me 1.5 years to reintegrate into normal routines after suffering this. Relaxation still eludes me.

It is the normal human experience but it's also meant to be subconcious and fluid. No amount of logic has made my mind happy

 

[indigo-alice]

You're so right about not realising until you're anxious, it's crazy all the things we take for granted when we're in our normal state of mind, whatever that is! While this journey is a hard one its made me appreciate my memories and time so much more - we are so lucky to have them even if they are confusing for us at the moment. Memories should be cherished and I'm sure in years to come our memories of this struggle will remind us how strong we are and what we are capable of enduring.

It's the nature of obsession for logic not to make you happy or satisfied - which is why it's important to do rather than think, as at the moment we aren't fully in control of our thoughts but we do have control over our bodies. For example someone with OCD who is obsessed with germs knows logically that they most likely haven't caught a deadly disease from touching a door handle, but the obsessive mind can't rest until they know for sure. In order to combat that they need to accept that, yeah, they might have some deadly virus but it isn't worth completely stopping everything/carrying out compulsions until they have the all clear. It's a similar thing for us. The nature of time is weird and scary and we will never know for sure where the past is or what memories are, but we need to carry on even though we're freaked out and let our experiences help us understand, rather than trying to think our way out.

You seem like a very strong person and I am sure that relaxation will come to you in time. And when it does you will definitely have earned it! I remember reading something on here about time seeming like an enemy right now but that it will actually a good friend if you allow it to be - I find it helpful to remind myself of that when I feel really down.

 

[indigo-alice]

Anyway, I'm getting off these forums again for a little while and will probably check back in a week or two. I honestly recommend anybody else to do the same, its good to stop feeding your mind new dp/dr stuff for a while and give it some fresh material to work with!

 

[Al_pk]

All you can really do with this is experience enough normality to show your body and mind that you are not afraid. At my worst point I had panic attacks and very real physical doom barriers that stopped me in my tracks. These have gone now and so I've definately had some success. It's more mental ocd for me now.

Nowadays I just feel like I'm always looking over my shoulder and a bit freaked out that I was there now I'm here.

I hate how quick the brain is to do negative things with our lives. Like it never gives you permanent euphoria disorder. No. It just wants to show you the problem with time. I loved my life before all this. Now my only aim in life is to feel at true peace in time and space.

It's good that you can see some positives, for me it's all at such a level of discomfort that I do find it hard to see anything of value.

Yes I have spoken to others who have suffered with this and the general concensus is that time will be your friend in the end

Good luck with uni Alice