[Ben]

Alright, I'm new to this group, so I hope I'm not over-analyzing a topic we've already discussed before (over analyzing amongst over analyzers, now that would be hard), but I was thinking about something and would like to dump it amongst all of you. There appear to be some extremely intelligent people on this group, so I'm interested in your thoughts.

When looking for a quotation for my profile I glimpsed across a few of those I have liked in the past and encountered a couple by the late Richard Feynman (a theoretical physicist of the mid-twentieth centry). For the longest time I wanted to go into the field, but for some reason or another I chose software engineering. Oh well.

I started reading many of his books around the same time period that I started really having my DP problems, and recently re-discovered a quote by him that fascinated me at that time:

I don't have to know an answer. I don't feel frightened by not knowing things; by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose? which is the way it really is, as far as I can tell, possibly. It doesn't frighten me.

It got me thinking about things, and I realized something: here I am, stressed out about the validity of existence, my place in it, and yet there is someone who is far more in tune with nature than I, staring into the depths of it all without any fear. Yet, I'm frightfully afraid of such things.

After I had my first bought with DP, and I had become a lot better, I would look back on my experiences with it and realize that I didn't answer any of the questions I had during that time - just encountered new distractions, or my stress and anxiety had lestened a great bit and the DP thoughts just kind of rolled off my back. Talking to others about the possibilities of a bizarre world, totally unlike the one we're used to, the usual response is something very un-anxious; almost "so what?"

Perhaps it's an epiphany you all have an I'm just now starting to realize it, but this has a LOT to do with anxiety and my seemingly maladaptive methods for dealing with it (daydreaming, etc.). Does anyone else follow what I'm saying?

It just struck me as interesting, that's all, that my response to the "I don't know what the universe is all about" quote would be fear, whereas for some, it's enjoyment. I have to think that A - the action of asking the question and, C - the consequence of asking the question must be directly related to B - my belief as to what the question means to me, etc (stolen directly from Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy - I know). My belief is that such an unknown universe is a BAD thing. Apparenly, for some, it's either not thought about or something - cause the question EXISTS outside of me - others have to have it too.

Not to overanalyze this one guy - as he's just one guy and not any more special than that - but, the quote just got me thinking, that's all. Thinking, thinking, thinking.....

 

[sebastian]

Hi Ben,

Let me assure you, firstly, that you've certainly come to the right place. I don't know what to say, other than to emphasize the point that you've already made, in that this whole existential business of us pondering imponderables, is most certainly due to the excessive amount of time we spend pondering it. If that makes any sense. In short...we are an anxious lot. And anxiety does crazy things to an otherwise uncrazy brain.

I would recommend that you peruse some threads, read some stories, and so forth. I think you'll see what i mean, and probably feel great comfort, as everyone does, in the fact that you are not alone in your rabbit-hole tumbling, as it were.

In any case, welcome to the board.

s.

 

[jw1234]

Hey Ben,

Welcome to the group. You must be thrilled to be here, as we all are. Just wanted to second Sebastian on that one. I usually dont post that much here, but you really touched upon the absolute crux of my personal battle with dp. As soon as I come off the meds, the fear of not knowing is just out of control, and I go on this insane self-destructive mission to almost try to destroy all meaning. I would literally spend days trying to find quotes like the one you found, or anything that would give me some courage, thinking that if i found the perfect quote or the one line of reasoning that made sense, my questioning would end. It never did of course, and each time I had to go back on the meds, and like you, the questions never get answered, but life just begins again, and normal stuff just takes its place. Check out some of my previous posts and experiences and you may find some solace in that. Would love to hear your further insight on this matter.

Cheers,
j

 

[Ben]

Well, it all seems to me to be a strange rollup of several disorders - all that are self-destructive in their own right. To me, it's kind of like being caught in a spider web - the more I tumble about, the more aware the spider becomes; or some other wacked-out analogy. It's also very much like being trapped in a viscious circle.

We're obsessive individuals - whether categorized as being obsessive compulsive I don't know - but we're obsessive. One trait of that is not letting something go, and so we found an unanswerable question and torment ourselves with it - and bring up all sorts of nasties about it. It's really the _thoughts_ that are tweaking us out - and the fact that we can't just let them go torments us. I think others can let them go. Here's another interesting quote by the same guy (Richard Feynman) that kind of makes my point on this issue:

I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong.

We have _something_ else going on, though, besides that - and I believe it's also the anxiety. The anxiety makes it all the more troublesome for us and brings it to the forefront. It's like a magnifying glass for an already troublesome problem. Being obsessive, we can't put the freakin' magnifying glass down and voila - even more torment.

All of this doesn't mix well with our introverted minds too - making us feel alienated. This pushes us away more, making us ponder the craziness, etc. etc. etc.

Face it - we are living here on this planet with finite sensory capabilities, a finite mind, and finite facilities, etc. We are going to encounter the bizarre-ness (not a word) of the universe. The difference is that we worry so damn much atop it all that it becomes a problem.

To me, the answer is in not trying to find an answer, and expecting that answer to be the cure - but in simply attacking the orthogonal issues of anxiety, etc. Our obsessive minds make it difficult for us to let go, but letting go is really the "cure".

 

[Guest]

Have any of you guys seen the movie 8 and a Half?

One of my favorites. The whole movie the main character (a director) is trying to make sense of his life, find some sort of ultimate meaning, so he can not only figure out his life but figure out what to do with this movie he is making (the movie is largely based his own life and experiences.)

 

[bat]

hi

i havn't read the other responses but, the way i think, thats the beauty of animal thinking. and the pity of evolution where we are concerned.

 

[sebastian]

Have any of you guys seen the movie 8 and a Half?

One of my favorites. The whole movie the main character (a director) is trying to make sense of his life, find some sort of ultimate meaning, so he can not only figure out his life but figure out what to do with this movie he is making (the movie is largely based his own life and experiences.)

i haven't seen it. is that the fellini film? If so, i probably never will see it just because i've had such bad experiences with his movies...in that i just don't "get" them. I mean, i'm all for incomprehensible story lines as long as they're stylistically justified or at least have some sort of overarching profundity to them which is just coherent enough so as to let me enjoy the fact that it's ambiguous and highly textured. But i just come away from Fellini films feeling confused and unsettled. But hey, that's just me. Obviously i'm missing something as the rest of the world seems to love him. Viva Fellini!