[Brainsilence02]

How do I know that what I say is what I mean?

How do I know that what I mean is what I intend to mean?

How do I know that other people understand what I mean? ("yes, I see" is not the answer)

How do I describe things that I do not even understand or be able to define? ("things" is wide)

How do I know that it is not an illustion?

How do I know that I don't have the concious ability to stop this effect?

And how do I continue the effort to "mean" and not just to use the mind's backup?
__________

PS: I call this "subjectivity effect" because it makes me feel subjective. I don't know if Iam subjective in fact. I think that my greatest effort in the past 2 years has been to become as much objective I can. Objective to myself (like self-honesty) and to other people.

 

[Monkeydust]

The question shouldn't be "how do I know this? How can I know that?". Ultimately there are no certain answers to these matters.

The question should be "why should this bother me?"

Trying to think your way out of this illness simply doesn't work; you end up digging a hole for yourself in a state of paralyzing subjectivety - even solipsism.

It ain't worth it.

 

[Scattered]

The path to freedom is paved with lies.

 

[Martinelv]

The path to freedom is paved with lies.

Are you trying to be deliberately enigmatic ?

Wot ? Eh ?

 

[Scattered]

Or in order to get better you have to lie to yourself and say that the world makes sense. You have to choose to not think about why you're here and whether or not you have a purpose. These are all valid questions . Most will tell you to just not think about it. By not thinking about it you're lying to yourself and simply assuming that there is a reason, purpose, and meaning.

Why think about the hard questions? Why even bother? Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Martinelv]

I'm in a rush, but I'm going to get back to you on this scattered.

But anyway, I taste your sadness. I've been there. Hang in buddy,

 

[Scattered]

I'm not sad, suicidal, or depressed. I'm not even horrendously DPed like most are here. I'm simply confused. Profoundly confused and I refuse to stop asking questions. I think questions have to be asked and should be asked. If people choose not to ask them or not be bothered by them then thats fine, if they think it will help them. I think its just a part of who I am to ask even if there is no foreseeable answer. I can get bad at times, but normally I'm very stable.

 

[sebastian]

The thing is, Brainsilence, we can sit there and wonder about all this for the rest of our lives, but next thing we know we'll be hauled into the doctor's office, told we have colon cancer or some other biological monstrosity, and our life will be over. Either way, we will NEVER know the answer...not in this world.

Reminds me of a Richard Feynman quote. I can't remember exactly what it was but something to do with examining the molecules in a wine glass, and how one could engage themselves in this activity for years and never determine what's happening with the molecules in the glass, so at the end of the day, all you can do is drink it down.

Clearly, his way of saying it was more poetic, but i can't find it through google so to hell with it.

 

[person3]

if you're mad at your mom say it.

if you feel your teacher jipped you talk to them

if there is a job interview take it

if there is a hot date that arrives at your door, take it

if there is something that makes you mad sad happy whatever, say it

those are the kinds of things you should be worrying about.

you've been so afraid of dealing with those that you go under the guise of asking this "super important" philosophical crap.

 

[Scattered]

Well obviously you've formed you're own theory about the matter .
Thats a perfectly fine way to look at things, its rational and it makes sense. Sometimes I feel like I'm beyond that to a certain extent. This is part of my personality, its part of who I am. If you choose to not look at the "super important" questions then don't look at them. I choose to, to some extent, but its also an ingrained part of who I am. I would go as far as to say my search for identity comes from a need to be "normal" and to have my personlaity fit that of others. But it doesn't.

Perhaps the only way to be normal is to realize that you are not normal and accept yourself for who you are. I'm an obsessive person who ruminates on these questions of existence and reality. Once I accept that as my identity I don't think I'll ever have to strain myself to reach what you consider to be normal.

 

[sebastian]

you've been so afraid of dealing with those that you go under the guise of asking this "super important" philosophical crap.

You know, the thing is, this stuff is "super important". I mean, if you really want to get down to the gist of it, questions of this sort...or i guess i should say, the answers to these questions are the ONLY thing we should worry about.

What happens when we die?
Is there a God?
Is that God me?
Is it all an illusion?
What is eternity?

etc, etc...

All of this nonsense about politics, classical science, industrial engineering...it's all just an interesting footnote in the epic of Life, The Universe, And Everything. The bare facts, as it appears in all it's prosaic glory, is that we live, we procreate, we die. And have a few laughs and shed many tears in the interim. After that...either the real fun begins, the horror is exponentiated (word?), or we simply cease to exist. Life, with all it's glit and glamor, is but a broadway show doomed to be cancelled. Eventually...sooner or later...we'll be confronted by the Otherworld.

Now...the thing about all this is that first of all, brooding on this Otherworld can have nothing but a deleterious effect on us petty humans. All it will do is put us in a perpetual state of panic (Of course there are exceptions to this rule...those who achieve enlightenment and what not...but who really knows what that's all about...certainly not me).

Secondly, and more importantly, this is where a question of faith comes in. You can choose what to believe in. You can choose to accept the fact that life is a test and there are greater things to come. You can choose how you want to live this life...as it presumedly (and this is certainly open to debate) is the only one we've got.

I think what it is, is that we're all on this board, in one way or another, because we've exhausted ourselves asking these questions and still haven't found an answer that we can feel comfortable with. Others have. Whether they're devout Catholics, ardent atheists, or even people who have divorced themselves from religious experimentalism altogether and have pursued a life of licentious hedonism. What separates us from these people is that they've found something they're comfortable with, and we have not. In the end, it's all the same.

I think the trouble also is that we associate these questions with a real mental disorder, as if they were somehow intertwined. But in reality, in my opinion anyway, we're just very anxious people who have blown that anxiety into something more esoteric...Otherworldish, if you will. The answer isn't on the tip of our tongues...we won't find it. We can search and search but meanwhile our life is slipping by and in any case, the Otherworld will be there for us at some point, so why stand in line at 5, for a show that starts at 9?

I know, i mixed metaphors or something but my poker game is starting so i had to wrap it up.

 

[Scattered]

Bravo. *clap clap*

 

[Ben]

Very well stated Sebastian; I agree completely.