[Tres]

Hello,

My name is Trés Calhoun. I first developed severe DPD/DRD after I experienced a panic attack while high from marijuana. That was in 2011. From the moment I woke up until 9 years later I experienced constant dissociation with only a total of maybe 3 minutes worth of "moments of clarity" throughout.
I will try to condense everything I know into the shortest format for you. Please understand that I know what I am talking about. I am currently a Psych Rehab Counselor and go to college for Substance Abuse Counseling (before you stop reading this is applicable to all you non-drug users too)! In my free time I study this subject because too many people are silently suffering from this torturous disorder.

1. How you got depersonalization/derealization does not matter, the problem is still the same. The problem is a learned poor coping mechanism in response to chronic trauma. Usually this trauma will be apparent (physical/sexual/emotional abuse) or not so apparent (neglect and/or nutritional deficiency). Some people fight against trauma, some people flee from trauma, you learned to freeze in the face of it. To endure the trauma and dissociate through it. So why do some people dissociate through it and then stop dissociating after the trauma is gone while you're stuck like this?

2. Because dissociation is natural but chronic trauma is not. So simply put, your dissociation hasn't stopped because the trauma hasn't stopped. So first look outside yourself. Do you see any trauma? Anxiety? Isolation (neglect)? Abuse? Bullying? Lost love? Okay, now look inward. See any trauma? Do you eat the correct amount of calories for your body weight consistently? Do you keep your blood sugars stable with fiber/rich whole grains? Do you eat enough protein for the amino acids that make neurotransmitters? Do you have all your vitamins and minerals consistently?
Something that blew my mind is that the body cant tell wether you're doing something to it intentionally or not. So if you're depressed and lack the nutrients to experience hunger then you wont eat all day but your body doesnt know that this is a choice you're making. So if you dont see trauma that you can address outside yourself with a therapist or better coping strategies then the answer is: YOU'RE NOT FOCUSED ENOUGH ON TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF INSIDE.
A few years back I watched a great YouTube video that talked about dissociation and animals. Unfortunately I couldn't find it for this post. The video basically said when a deer is being chased by a predator it has an immediate fight or flight response. It will run for its life (because deer dont tend to fight back or freeze when chased) so it will have anxiety. The neurotransmitter epinephrine aka addrenaline will be used from the adrenal glands and the deer will get a boost of "high alert" to get away from the predator. But what happens when the deer runs out of adrenaline and the predator is still chasing it (chronic trauma)? The deer's body prepares itself for unimaginable pain and suffering from being torn apart by dissociating. Dissociating is your body helping to protect you from yourself or your environment putting it at chronic risk of death. If you feel scared by that idea look at it like this: The lifestyle you've been leading has convinced your body it's heading towards death (it is, but not like...immediate death. More like 20-40 years from now) and that it should prepare for that. So you're body is trying to help you. SO HOW DO WE FIX DEPERSONALIZATION/DEREALIZATION?

3. Convince your body that you're okay and definitely not dying. How do you do that? Eat enough, get your vitamins and minerals, if you have chronic anxiety address your electrolytes (you probably need potassium or magnesium even if a blood test says your fine because they're stored in your bone not your blood), sleep enough consistently, be social, workout, etc.

4. So why does most of the advice you've heard NOT work? Because people find what they were missing in their lives and parade it around as the solution. That was what THEY were missing. You're missing your own nutrients. You're own social interactions. Your own healthy coping mechanisms. So yeah for Tom his solution was solving his generalized anxiety and high glutamate wheras you might be something completely different.

5. My general advice (adjust this on a case by case basis) Take a whole food multivitamin for vitamins and minerals. If it doesnt contain enough magnesium get magnesium oxide too. Vitamins and minerals work synergistically meaning together. So taking one here and there isn't going to help. Take fish oil or krill oil for improved neurotransmission. Increase protein (just eat meat, dont do any powders, even the healthy vegan ones) for the amino acids that are building blocks of neurotransmitters. If you have anxiety whole grains and dark leafy greens will get you tons of magnesium and coconut water will get you potassium. If you need immediate relief try smoking or making tea from hemp flower (not marijuana with THC) especially an indica dominant strain. Or if you fear that try hemp milk from a grocery store. I promise you will not fee more dissociated. But if you dont trust my word then even green tea or matcha will help because of the L-Theanine content.

Again, my name is Trés Calhoun. I wish you the best and please feel free to reach out with questions.

 

[NoDevils]

Unusually insightful. I want to add two things. First, people should get as much of their nutrients as possible from healthy food that is suitable to their personal digestive system. Second, looking inward to nurture self and heal trauma can be difficult because it requires acknowledgement of self and of trauma. It's important to balance introspection with some sense of involvement in physical reality and social communities, something that is sorely missing in the modern world. People turn to drugs, usually harmful recreational or helpful psychopharmacological, because their relationship with society is missing something.

 

[dpdrhaver184]

How did you fix your DP/DR? What was the problem for you? And was your recovery gradual or sudden?

Also, how did you come to the conclusion that diet matters so much when fixing DP/DR? Based on your logic I don't see why it would matter too much.
Chronic trauma is not normal now and was not normal when we were evolving. So it makes sense that it may contribute to DP/DR.

But poor nutrition is very normal now and was even more normal when we were evolving. Eating a stable amount of calories every day is a modern invention that wasn't part of the environment we grew up in. Our bodies are adapted to deal with food, vitamin, and mineral shortages. Hardly anyone in the past got all of their vitamins and minerals consistently.
Also, I thought "keeping your blood sugar stable" involves eating every couple of hours. Yet intermittent fasting is said to have huge neurological benefits.
So why wouldn't everyone in the past have had DP/DR?

I'm not saying food doesn't matter and you should eat like shit, but I don't know why you think eating in a way we are not evolved to eat would help solve DP/DR.

 

[Tres]

Unusually insightful. I want to add two things. First, people should get as much of their nutrients as possible from healthy food that is suitable to their personal digestive system. Second, looking inward to nurture self and heal trauma can be difficult because it requires acknowledgement of self and of trauma. It's important to balance introspection with some sense of involvement in physical reality and social communities, something that is sorely missing in the modern world. People turn to drugs, usually harmful recreational or helpful psychopharmacological, because their relationship with society is missing something.

No Devils,

I agree thoroughly with that first part. I spent so much money and time on supplements because I wanted a quicker and more potent fix. Unfortunately this is a flawed mindset. You need slow, natural, constant diet. The second part I agree with too however personally I prioritize the chemical/biological over the outward physical only because it's harder to develop healthy habits when your chemicals aren't right. But overall Im glad to see other people have found the same solution.

Thank you

 

[Tres]

How did you fix your DP/DR? What was the problem for you? And was your recovery gradual or sudden?

Also, how did you come to the conclusion that diet matters so much when fixing DP/DR? Based on your logic I don't see why it would matter too much.
Chronic trauma is not normal now and was not normal when we were evolving. So it makes sense that it may contribute to DP/DR.

But poor nutrition is very normal now and was even more normal when we were evolving. Eating a stable amount of calories every day is a modern invention that wasn't part of the environment we grew up in. Our bodies are adapted to deal with food, vitamin, and mineral shortages. Hardly anyone in the past got all of their vitamins and minerals consistently.
Also, I thought "keeping your blood sugar stable" involves eating every couple of hours. Yet intermittent fasting is said to have huge neurological benefits.
So why wouldn't everyone in the past have had DP/DR?

I'm not saying food doesn't matter and you should eat like shit, but I don't know why you think eating in a way we are not evolved to eat would help solve DP/DR.

DpDrHaver184,

I welcome your healthy skepticism, I am running errands so I may answer this kind of poorly but i'll try to address everything. Intermittent fasting is great, yes, I recommend eating two meals. One at 12pm and one at 8pm and nothing the rest of the time but it's not too beneficial too dpd/drd. Healthy eating involves consuming complex carbs that contain more fiber. Fiber is broken down more slowly and keeps your blood sugar stable for much much longer than the alternative.

Mine was a gradual dissapation. Again, dissociation is natural so even on a good day it's never entirely gone. Most people just arent aware of the sensation nor are they constantly checking for it. It ebs and flows. The goal is just decreasing it (like anxiety). My fix was utilizing all of the things I suggested towards the end of my post. I was physically, emotionally, sexually abused and rarely ate or ate a ton of bad foods. Rarely worked out, had insomnia....I mean I was asking for it.
How did I come to the conclusion that diet mattered so much? Not listening to word of mouth anecdotes but rather the .edu and .org and journal articles. Plus im very interested in medicine/nutrition so I was just lucky. I refused to spend my life this way. I got married, lost my older brother, and had a child all while not feeling real. I refused to die that way too.

Sorry, gotta go but i'll answer more soon.

 

[NoDevils]

No Devils,

I agree thoroughly with that first part. I spent so much money and time on supplements because I wanted a quicker and more potent fix. Unfortunately this is a flawed mindset. You need slow, natural, constant diet. The second part I agree with too however personally I prioritize the chemical/biological over the outward physical only because it's harder to develop healthy habits when your chemicals aren't right. But overall Im glad to see other people have found the same solution.

Thank you

I agree the neurobiological aspect is huge. I'd never advise someone to simply act as if they don't have a mental illness one hundred percent of the time. I was more so thinking from a social justice perspective there are people who are alienated and need to find some point of contact with society that's helpful to them. The relationship between social health and neurobiological health is probably interrelated, like if I got threatened with eviction tomorrow my biological systems would be upset.

 

[Aridity]

While I also hugely believe in a having a clean diet is very important, it never cured my condition. I believe I practiced a very strict diet of healthy foods, and not consuming any alcohol nor drugs. Supplements at least a few thousands euros spend, every Magnesium out there I still take Magnesium Citrate almost every night don't even know why. I do still have to much stressors and unresolved trauma but I can't resolve the trauma because of the Dissociation so yeah what now.

 

[Tres]

While I also hugely believe in a having a clean diet is very important, it never cured my condition. I believe I practiced a very strict diet of healthy foods, and not consuming any alcohol nor drugs. Supplements at least a few thousands euros spend, every Magnesium out there I still take Magnesium Citrate almost every night don't even know why. I do still have to much stressors and unresolved trauma but I can't resolve the trauma because of the Dissociation so yeah what now.

Hello Aridity,

Again, I welcome criticism. Truth that has not been criticized is only a hypothesis.
In my experience people with this disorder sometimes go down the dietary route but aren't typically well-read on what a healthy diet actually is. For instance, you could eat healthy things and still have an overall poor diet due to a lack of diversity, valuing supplements over caloric food, aimless/goal-less dieting, undereating/overeating, etc. So my question in return is: What do you mean you were eating healthy?

 

[Tres]

I agree the neurobiological aspect is huge. I'd never advise someone to simply act as if they don't have a mental illness one hundred percent of the time. I was more so thinking from a social justice perspective there are people who are alienated and need to find some point of contact with society that's helpful to them. The relationship between social health and neurobiological health is probably interrelated, like if I got threatened with eviction tomorrow my biological systems would be upset.

Hello again NoDevils,

Oh yeah, for sure. One of my favorite lecturers, Dr. Gabor Maté talks about that correlation specifically as it relates to addiction very often. They are intertwined without a doubt. I just see the first loose string as the biological is all.

We are conscious but I feel like recently as a society we've really neglected our humanity. It's almost as if the technology has many people trying to transcend flesh and bone preemptively. Idk.

 

[Tres]

Hello,

I also just want to address this preemptively: I understand that there are a lot of people claiming various cures on this website ranging from medical to integrative to psychological to dietary, however, this is the one singular solution. The magic pill doesn't exist. The answer is boring, requires consistent effort, and takes a while to work. This also explains why there are so many different "answers". Dpd/Drd is the symptom of an overall unhealthy lifestyle.

I can't lie, I used to be bitter when all the people used to criticize the solution claiming to have "tried it". But I understand, it's scary to realize that you need to change a lot of fundamental lifestyle habits. I also have a newfound understanding since getting into substance abuse counseling with an emphasis in nutritional intervention of how completely undereducated people are when it comes to nutrition alone let alone nutrition's correlation to mental health and addiction. So most people half-ass it or think they're doing it right when in reality they're just preventing other people's recovery by spreading misinformation.

Unfortunately, it's time to grow up. The era of being ignorant is over. Get sun, get sleep, exercise, eat, be social, etc. Do what a human does and you'll feel like a human is supposed to.

 

[Aridity]

Hello Aridity,

Again, I welcome criticism. Truth that has not been criticized is only a hypothesis.
In my experience people with this disorder sometimes go down the dietary route but aren't typically well-read on what a healthy diet actually is. For instance, you could eat healthy things and still have an overall poor diet due to a lack of diversity, valuing supplements over caloric food, aimless/goal-less dieting, undereating/overeating, etc. So my question in return is: What do you mean you were eating healthy?

Trust me I was eating healthy, a well varied diet of proteins greens and fruits. No sugar, no sweets soda no cigarettes no alcohol no drugs. 5/6 times a week working out. Lots of water. It did help but never cured my DP/DR, I think a big factor of my dpdr staying this bad is my phone addiction 9/10 hours a day on it.

 

[Tres]

Trust me I was eating healthy, a well varied diet of proteins greens and fruits. No sugar, no sweets soda no cigarettes no alcohol no drugs. 5/6 times a week working out. Lots of water. It did help but never cured my DP/DR, I think a big factor of my dpdr staying this bad is my phone addiction 9/10 hours a day on it.

Hello Aridity,

I doubt that phone use has much more to do with DPD/DRD than being a bad habit that reenforces the poor coping response to trauma. A lot of the population is "addicted" to their smart phones without DPD/DRD. Water isn't really helpful unless you're dehydrated, I mean it's good to drink instead of sugary drinks but it's not really an important factor. In fact too much can deplete your electrolytes. I'm more focused on what specific issues you were trying to solve dietarily and the logic behind the dietary choices you made.

 

[Dragoon909]

Tres,

May I ask: How bad was your derealization?

Just explain it the best you can.
I'm curious to know.

Thanks.

 

[Tres]

Hey Dragoon909,

Im so mad at myself because I literally just deleted my old post that detailed this. Anyways, here's the shortened version (note, at the time I was experiencing intermingled symptoms of nutritional deficiency and anxiety as well):

• A dulling of colors
• A lack of spatial understanding (for instance, inside and outside felt the same somehow)
• A feeling that I was my internal monologue while my physical body was on autopilot
• A general feeling of disconnect from everything
• A feeling that I was in a movie simply based on visual perception
• "Visual Snow"
• A fear of sleep, repetition, and losing control mentally

 

[Aridity]

Hello Aridity,

I doubt that phone use has much more to do with DPD/DRD than being a bad habit that reenforces the poor coping response to trauma. A lot of the population is "addicted" to their smart phones without DPD/DRD. Water isn't really helpful unless you're dehydrated, I mean it's good to drink instead of sugary drinks but it's not really an important factor. In fact too much can deplete your electrolytes. I'm more focused on what specific issues you were trying to solve dietarily and the logic behind the dietary choices you made.

Well caring good for your body is supposed to be good for your mental health, so basically I quit all rubbish in order to help my mental health. Anxiety etc, but I think I need a different approach, and I do think the phone usage is fucking my dopamine up so yeah not giving my brain the rest it needs, keeping the dpdr alive.

 

[Dragoon909]

Hey Dragoon909,

Im so mad at myself because I literally just deleted my old post that detailed this. Anyways, here's the shortened version (note, at the time I was experiencing intermingled symptoms of nutritional deficiency and anxiety as well):

• A dulling of colors
• A lack of spatial understanding (for instance, inside and outside felt the same somehow)
• A feeling that I was my internal monologue while my physical body was on autopilot
• A general feeling of disconnect from everything
• A feeling that I was in a movie simply based on visual perception
• "Visual Snow"
• A fear of sleep, repetition, and losing control mentally

I have all those symptoms.

I sometimes can go outside, and it feels the same.

Kinda like the sky is a "ceiling"...

 

[Trith]

Hey Dragoon909,

Im so mad at myself because I literally just deleted my old post that detailed this. Anyways, here's the shortened version (note, at the time I was experiencing intermingled symptoms of nutritional deficiency and anxiety as well):

• A dulling of colors
• A lack of spatial understanding (for instance, inside and outside felt the same somehow)
• A feeling that I was my internal monologue while my physical body was on autopilot
• A general feeling of disconnect from everything
• A feeling that I was in a movie simply based on visual perception
• "Visual Snow"
• A fear of sleep, repetition, and losing control mentally

Given that you had symptoms of nutritional deficiency and that your solution involves things around food, it sounds like the source of your problem was that you had particularly poor eating habits and/or poor knowledge about nutrition. It's good there is a lot of information about this around, and it's great that it could help you recover.

 

[Dragoon909]

Before I got the derealization, which was caused by stress and a full day of anxiety--I ate poorly. I will admit!
A pot of coffee a day, sodas, sweets and I did have the occasional healthy dinner.

My derealization also brought on tinnitus and a few other symptoms.

I have been eating better lately, but no changes much in the derealization.

I can't drink coffee right now either because of anxiety.

 

[Tres]

Well caring good for your body is supposed to be good for your mental health, so basically I quit all rubbish in order to help my mental health. Anxiety etc, but I think I need a different approach, and I do think the phone usage is fucking my dopamine up so yeah not giving my brain the rest it needs, keeping the dpdr alive.

Hello Aridity,

Yeah, phones certainly don't help with dopamine detoxing but they're not really exacerbating dopamine issues either. It's more like the mechanism by which you cope with poor dopamine levels. As you've likely heard before a much more immediate solution would be the amino acid L-Tyrosine at around 250-350mg along with a multivitamin to help convert that Tyrosine into Dopamine.

I will say that I think you most likely could benefit from a more targeted approach. Personally, for all my clients I always recommend a whole food multivitamin as the foundational layer. Then I usually tell them to calculate their macronutrients based on body weight so we can get a stable protein intake that will help to restore missing neurotransmitters. But I don't recommend protein powders since raising any neurotransmitter level beyond where it should be can cause imbalance. We're looking for perfect balance. Then I usually say fish or krill oil for omega 3's that help with nuerotransmission. And sometimes a shelf stable probiotic just to stimulate healthy appetite cravings. Simple. Linear. Weaponized regemin.

Then for diet you should be consuming all your calories, fats, carbs, protein, and fiber every day. No under-eating. Fasting is okay to do but it's not really a priority and should not exceed a full day. Whole grain bread and pasta, wild rice, quinoa are the heavier carbs that are healthy. Throw out that white flour, potatoes, white rice, normal pasta, and white bread. Other than that.......all the stuff you know to do. Lean meats, extra virgin olive oil, healthy fats, fruits and veggies.

 

[Tres]

Given that you had symptoms of nutritional deficiency and that your solution involves things around food, it sounds like the source of your problem was that you had particularly poor eating habits and/or poor knowledge about nutrition. It's good there is a lot of information about this around, and it's great that it could help you recover.

Hello Trith,

Actually it was more than that. I had to change who I was as a person from the ground up (lifestyle changes and self actualization). But yeah, in this thread I'm definitely hyperfocused on the nutritional aspect because it's the most immediate correlation plus usually people have a harder time understanding its involvement in the disorder.