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Since a major component of DP is obsessive ruminations about the ultimate nature of reality, what place do you think spirituality and religion have in all of this, if any. Does it help you to cope, or do you think its another human scam/wish fantasy designed to keep us robots moving along blissful and ignorant? Or perhaps a little of both?

Do you think there's a difference between spirituality and religion?

In general, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING ON IN THIS CRAZY UNIVERSE?
 

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Most of the time it helps me, but sometimes it doesn't. I love talking about this stuff, and when I have more time I will give my viewpoint on what is happening in the universe. :)
 
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Religion and spirituality can be a good topic for philosophical debate and exegesis. However, it is more of an analgesic than a cure.
 

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XEPER said:
Religion and spirituality can be a good topic for philosophical debate and exegesis. However, it is more of an analgesic than a cure.
Well... I am not sure if I have DP, but if DP is what I have, then one of the things that got into it was when I realized that I will stop to exist one day. Apparently religion was gone from inside me. The pain was great, and I sunk into nothingness. That was around 2000-2002.

I am irreligious (apparently, you have already understood that), that has brought some trouble, but it saved me from other. Eventually, I will head to where Nietzsche poins (well, not exactly, but something like that).

I agree about the alalgesic (painkiller) as for Christendom. I had the chanse to study a bit the Asian religions and they were great. If I ever decide to get back to religion, that is if I start to feel bad again, I think I will prefer one Asian religion, or even tweak one to fit my appeal... Nothing like an pre-defined illusion! :D

Religion is a wonderful thing. Don't get me wrong because of that topic/thread (you know what I mean). It's just that most religion implementations I saw in action had very bad involvements.
 

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Brain,

I got a chuckle upon reading your tag line just now. I hadn't noticed this before (I don't know why I didn't catch it earlier), but there is a typo that I am certain you will want to fix:

Instead of "idioms," you have "idiotisms," which I hope you will laugh at as well! :wink:

Too bad I didn't notice it earlier!! I could have used it in that other conversation. :lol:
 

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Sojourner said:
Brain,

I got a chuckle upon reading your tag line just now. I hadn't noticed this before (I don't know why I didn't catch it earlier), but there is a typo that I am certain you will want to fix:

Instead of "idioms," you have "idiotisms," which I hope you will laugh at as well! :wink:

Too bad I didn't notice it earlier!! I could have used it in that other conversation. :lol:
Thanks :D

That's weird, my dictionary has both "idiom" and "idiotism". So idiom is more proper than idiotism?
 

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It's my belief that religion has done more harm on me than help; to go much deeper would surely start a completely different debate on this thread and it's probably not worth it.

Suffice it to say, religion has done enough to me and I'm happy to finally be without it.
 

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To me spirtuality is completely different from religion. Religion involves dogma, fear, being hypocrtical, being judgemental, worst of all that hellfire and brimstone talk.

My spirtual beliefs involve love, acceptance, purpose, and a sense of peace. It is a wonderful sense of comfort in my life, and I have little fear of death (the only fear is that it would hurt those who care about me).

What do you think will happen when you die? Just curious.
 

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....nothing will happen when I die; I simply die and consciousness is gone. That's what my interpretation of life is all about - I'm here for a while and then I'm gone. To me the world seems much more beautiful and sensical this way - it doesn't have some kind of "spooky" correspondence to my personal wishes and desires - it just IS without my preferences coming into play. Any other way of looking at the world seems much more personal and more prone to insanity or inflated self-importance (there are lot of people who suffer severe mental disorders who believe they have some kind of religious or spiritual tie with the universe or have an "insight" into things). But, that's my opinion, and you asked for it....
 

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Ben said:
....nothing will happen when I die; I simply die and consciousness is gone. That's what my interpretation of life is all about - I'm here for a while and then I'm gone. To me the world seems much more beautiful and sensical this way - it doesn't have some kind of "spooky" correspondence to my personal wishes and desires - it just IS without my preferences coming into play. Any other way of looking at the world seems much more personal and more prone to insanity or inflated self-importance (there are lot of people who suffer severe mental disorders who believe they have some kind of religious or spiritual tie with the universe or have an "insight" into things). But, that's my opinion, and you asked for it....
i am there with you Ben. Well, not quite there, but on my way. I had a shock when I had to cook a chicken: it was cold (took it from the fridge), I touched it's skin and I realised that there was no difference between me and it.

Thoughts of stop to exist at death moment are still freaking me out. I will have to face them ultimately.
 

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interesting... I believe in reincarnation, but not the kind where you come back as a fish or a bird, I think you are always the same soul just in different circumstances. Oh well, to each their own.
 

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One approach to this subject considers:

- Signs of an intelligence behind the laws humans have discovered that govern the behavior of matter.

- The existence of a universal moral law that appears in all cultures and that is written on the human heart.

- The existence of the human conscience.

- Evidence that meeting the needs that humans have for survival is something that occurs with regard to food, shelter, love, bodily integrity over time, and others; the suggestion is that why one ever-present human need would NOT be met. The conclusion of some people is that all human needs are, in fact, met, but that some humans reject the answer because they cannot conceive of anything greater than themselves.
 

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Sojourner said:
I think your mistake was not seeing "obsolete" and/or understanding what that word means in the context of an English dictionary:

obsolete : IDIOM 1
2 : IDIOM 2
...I just wrote with latin characters the greek word "idiomatismos" :D

Yes, I didn't even noticed. That was because I just learned what "obselete" means!
 

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Oh no...here goes.....

Signs of an intelligence behind the laws humans have discovered that govern the behavior of matter.
It's interesting, because one often looks at the universe this way: that is, here we are a part of this thing and that everything is harmonious and makes sense and, therefore, there ought to be some kind of universal being that created it as it is so aesthetically appealing to us (the order, etc.). However, it's important to think that it's appealing to us because we are a construct of it - not the other way around, in other words, our minds are part and parcel with the constructs of the universe, and so things that make "sense" to us are those things which pan out in the world. Think about your definition of the word "intelligent" for a minute - and realize that intelligence, as often defined by us humans, is the ability to grasp the world about you in a effective and constructive way; not the other way around - in other words, intelligence is dealing with the universe and its laws WELL. It seems natural that we, then, would see intelligence in the universe as it constantly pushes forward with the laws we try to graple with in order to make ourselves intelligent. It doesn't make much sense for a being of a universe to find NOT dealing with that universe as intelligent. Our reasoning was built upon IT, not seperate, and so to say that the universe is intelligent is basically rather obvious as it defines what we mean as intelligent. If the universal laws were completely different, then a being would see THAT as intelligent, or a universe with no laws, potentially. I think we often see ourselves as something seperate and partial, and something capable of juding the "intellect" of nature - but we are nature, and so it makes sense it it seems beautiful to us.

The existence of a universal moral law that appears in all cultures and that is written on the human heart.
The basic principles are the same for the human species - we eat, we procreate, we sleep, we die; and it makes sense, then, that morals (or the rules that we see as socially and personally acceptable) would be very similar. We all have two eyes, right? We all have two arms, right? Why would it not make sense for the constructs of our brains (and the results of those constructs being apparent in thought) be also similar.

The existence of the human conscience.
This is a wonderful mystery, but a mystery is all - not evidence, at least in my mind, of a supernatural being or something existential. We find our own thinking miraculous because we can see ourselves and see ourselves thinking, and see ourselves seeing ourselves thinking. We are the only judges of our thinking - so why not make it wonderful, eh?

The conclusion of some people is that all human needs are, in fact, met, but that some humans reject the answer because they cannot conceive of anything greater than themselves.
I'm not sure as thought I really understand what you're saying by this, but I THINK I do...correct me if I'm wrong.....

I will argue that I have a deeper and more dramatic feeling of a greater reality than most people who have a religion because I see that realities that fail to make sense to us do so not because there is some kind of secret plan that persists in nature, but simply because it extends SO MUCH FURTHER than our own consciousness can fathom. I argue that the feelings of religiosity persist in me deeper than someone who follows a definite religion as too much time is spent in those religions projecting human desires onto the universe, when, in all actuality, that's quite the insult to whatever greater reality lays beneath.
 
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