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hey romeo,

believe it or not i could relate totally to all of that. my psycho x was a walking nightmare. everything he did made no sense. it seemed he wanted to go down in flames.. and he did. in the process he took me down with him.. and i went willingly. only because i had the hope that perhaps.. i could change him.. turn it around.. turn back the clock. to a time when things were so perfect and we were so in love.. just like romeo and juliet.

unfortunately i had to learn it the hard way. you cant change someone. you can only show them the door. you cant make them walk through it. and if you hang around waiting and wishing for it.. you become less of a "help" and more of an enabler. because the truth becomes more and more clear as the days and months and years go on... that this person isnt going to change, not the way that i want them to. and by hanging around this person and giving into their needs im only giving them control. control over my finances, my home, my soul and worst of all... my love. and once you give up that control.. you are just asking for them to sh1t all over you.. and for some extremely f-ed up reason.. they do. why they do well i guess thats why they say,you only hurt the one you love.

i think juliet loved romeo.. and i think my romeo loved me, but they just couldnt get over their own crap to really give a CRAP. and so.. since youre there and available.. they use you as the nearest toilet. sad but true.

so thus... we get crushed. then we get angry. then we go numb inside. for some of us.. we can get over this numbness. for others, it lingers. name it whatever you want.. fear, anger, hate, despair, dp. all of these things make up the wall around my heart. but i know that there still is hope for me.. and that somehow my life will go on. day by day i somehow find the will to wake up and face the day. through all the heartaches and fears.. everyday little battles are won. my heart will heal. scarred and weather beaten as it may be,
my heart still beats.
so does yours. all it needs now is time and a little TLC.



 

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hey romeo,

believe it or not i could relate totally to all of that. my psycho x was a walking nightmare. everything he did made no sense. it seemed he wanted to go down in flames.. and he did. in the process he took me down with him.. and i went willingly. only because i had the hope that perhaps.. i could change him.. turn it around.. turn back the clock. to a time when things were so perfect and we were so in love.. just like romeo and juliet.

unfortunately i had to learn it the hard way. you cant change someone. you can only show them the door. you cant make them walk through it. and if you hang around waiting and wishing for it.. you become less of a "help" and more of an enabler. because the truth becomes more and more clear as the days and months and years go on... that this person isnt going to change, not the way that i want them to. and by hanging around this person and giving into their needs im only giving them control. control over my finances, my home, my soul and worst of all... my love. and once you give up that control.. you are just asking for them to sh1t all over you.. and for some extremely f-ed up reason.. they do. why they do well i guess thats why they say,you only hurt the one you love.

i think juliet loved romeo.. and i think my romeo loved me, but they just couldnt get over their own crap to really give a CRAP. and so.. since youre there and available.. they use you as the nearest toilet. sad but true.

so thus... we get crushed. then we get angry. then we go numb inside. for some of us.. we can get over this numbness. for others, it lingers. name it whatever you want.. fear, anger, hate, despair, dp. all of these things make up the wall around my heart. but i know that there still is hope for me.. and that somehow my life will go on. day by day i somehow find the will to wake up and face the day. through all the heartaches and fears.. everyday little battles are won. my heart will heal. scarred and weather beaten as it may be,
my heart still beats.
so does yours. all it needs now is time and a little TLC.



 

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Hey Romeo,

I probably shouldnt be saying this cause I dont know all the details, but If Im not mistaken you have a wife and kids, correct?????I guess, I just cant find it in me to have pity for you. How do they feel about Juliet?

Joe
 

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Hey Romeo,

I probably shouldnt be saying this cause I dont know all the details, but If Im not mistaken you have a wife and kids, correct?????I guess, I just cant find it in me to have pity for you. How do they feel about Juliet?

Joe
 

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Love your pictures, SleepingBeauty. They capture the emotions around all of this so well.

Sometimes, and the longer you live the better chance you have of this happening, things that are usually not in our character happen and we go against our own honor. Good people are capable of going against their norm especially if it brings a dead soul back to life.

SC, it is a sad, screwed up, emotional story. No moral judgements here. Just hating you are at the bottom and struggling not only with dp but an unbearable sense of loss. It will take a long time to come back from this.

Keep moving and breathing.
terri
 

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Love your pictures, SleepingBeauty. They capture the emotions around all of this so well.

Sometimes, and the longer you live the better chance you have of this happening, things that are usually not in our character happen and we go against our own honor. Good people are capable of going against their norm especially if it brings a dead soul back to life.

SC, it is a sad, screwed up, emotional story. No moral judgements here. Just hating you are at the bottom and struggling not only with dp but an unbearable sense of loss. It will take a long time to come back from this.

Keep moving and breathing.
terri
 

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maybe as the sadness goes it will pull away some of the dp with it
 

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maybe as the sadness goes it will pull away some of the dp with it
 
G

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Please bear in mind that when I made the "Romeo and Juliest-esque" comment, I was being very sarcastic. It came to me because the reality of the relationship you have with her is so non-romantic/innocent, but the way you "hold" it has a mythical romance flavor. The dichotomy between reality and fantasy was interesting to me.

As I read your R&J tale above, I kept thinking about 'Of Human Bondage" - a novel by Somerset Maughn. Do you know that book? (don't cheat and see the movie, grin....it's certainly good, but doesn't tap into the darker psychological stuff that Maughn seems to understand too well).

Anyway, to make a VERY long story VERY VERY short, the main character is a screwed up young man with a leg/foot handicap - a cripple (in more than body). And his obsessive "love" for a cold and unloving beautiful woman is the thrust of it. It's about his using her as a kind of fetish - a secret meaning she holds for him, that really has nothing to do with WHO she is or how she treats him. The more she abuses him, misuses him, the less he can see the reality. The more he clings to the fetishized lust (for her as Object, for her as a redemption of him in some thwarted way). They are not having a relationship - but each "having" something inside their own minds that serves to prevent intimacy - using one another as "props" to enact a kind of self-definition.

One thing we dp/obsessive/narcissistic types are veryyyy good at is compartmentalizing. We are able to live the majority of our lives in one mode of self, and then keep "secret" holding pens for our wilder emotions. Some guys see hookers, or fantasy sex workers and play out secret parts of themselves that never see the light of day. Some guys have secret homosexual liaisons, daliances on business trips that are so sordid their family/friends would literally not believe it was them. Some men do it in isolation, with porn or phone lines.

It's a symptom of a split in the ego. And the result is that we CANNOT feel much in real life, but feel TOO much in our secret caves. Nowhere in any of that do real people count for much. We are "using" pieces of reality (such as other people) to fuel some private scenerio we don't even understand. But we go to like moths to a flame. We go to it as if we need a "fix."

One reason we are so hard to treat, if not impossible, is that we don't want to integrate ourselves even in the therapy sessions - we want to talk ONLY about the fantasy life, or only about day to day reality. And never the twain shall meet. We cannot imagine having a disucssion with a shrink about the "ex" (in your case) and being open to talking about feelings for the wife, for the children, for one's self in other areas. We keep our worlds separate. We keep our Self(ves) separate. And the harder the shrink tries to get us to bring it all into one large sandbox and explore it - the more we say "this has nothing to do with my marriage, family, etc...you don't get it. I need to just look at me and this girl - THAT is where some answer lies.."

I am NOT judging. And I think you know that. I couldn't care less what some internet friend does regarding fidelity, grin....I'm just saying that the way you comparmentalize key pieces of yourself off from the rest of you is VERY connected to your dp, and why you're probably a veryyyy hard therapy patient to make a dent in. grin

A great line from a psychoanalyst regarding narcissistic disturbances is this: "they want to do treatment and they want advice, and help. But they want to do it all on their own terms."

All that said, my friend, I enjoyed your tale - you're a good writer. you are.

Love ya,
J
 
G

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Please bear in mind that when I made the "Romeo and Juliest-esque" comment, I was being very sarcastic. It came to me because the reality of the relationship you have with her is so non-romantic/innocent, but the way you "hold" it has a mythical romance flavor. The dichotomy between reality and fantasy was interesting to me.

As I read your R&J tale above, I kept thinking about 'Of Human Bondage" - a novel by Somerset Maughn. Do you know that book? (don't cheat and see the movie, grin....it's certainly good, but doesn't tap into the darker psychological stuff that Maughn seems to understand too well).

Anyway, to make a VERY long story VERY VERY short, the main character is a screwed up young man with a leg/foot handicap - a cripple (in more than body). And his obsessive "love" for a cold and unloving beautiful woman is the thrust of it. It's about his using her as a kind of fetish - a secret meaning she holds for him, that really has nothing to do with WHO she is or how she treats him. The more she abuses him, misuses him, the less he can see the reality. The more he clings to the fetishized lust (for her as Object, for her as a redemption of him in some thwarted way). They are not having a relationship - but each "having" something inside their own minds that serves to prevent intimacy - using one another as "props" to enact a kind of self-definition.

One thing we dp/obsessive/narcissistic types are veryyyy good at is compartmentalizing. We are able to live the majority of our lives in one mode of self, and then keep "secret" holding pens for our wilder emotions. Some guys see hookers, or fantasy sex workers and play out secret parts of themselves that never see the light of day. Some guys have secret homosexual liaisons, daliances on business trips that are so sordid their family/friends would literally not believe it was them. Some men do it in isolation, with porn or phone lines.

It's a symptom of a split in the ego. And the result is that we CANNOT feel much in real life, but feel TOO much in our secret caves. Nowhere in any of that do real people count for much. We are "using" pieces of reality (such as other people) to fuel some private scenerio we don't even understand. But we go to like moths to a flame. We go to it as if we need a "fix."

One reason we are so hard to treat, if not impossible, is that we don't want to integrate ourselves even in the therapy sessions - we want to talk ONLY about the fantasy life, or only about day to day reality. And never the twain shall meet. We cannot imagine having a disucssion with a shrink about the "ex" (in your case) and being open to talking about feelings for the wife, for the children, for one's self in other areas. We keep our worlds separate. We keep our Self(ves) separate. And the harder the shrink tries to get us to bring it all into one large sandbox and explore it - the more we say "this has nothing to do with my marriage, family, etc...you don't get it. I need to just look at me and this girl - THAT is where some answer lies.."

I am NOT judging. And I think you know that. I couldn't care less what some internet friend does regarding fidelity, grin....I'm just saying that the way you comparmentalize key pieces of yourself off from the rest of you is VERY connected to your dp, and why you're probably a veryyyy hard therapy patient to make a dent in. grin

A great line from a psychoanalyst regarding narcissistic disturbances is this: "they want to do treatment and they want advice, and help. But they want to do it all on their own terms."

All that said, my friend, I enjoyed your tale - you're a good writer. you are.

Love ya,
J
 
G

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
But....for me, and for folks who manage to do successful work in the depth therapies, it's crucial to learn HOW we each individually act, interact, etc. and WHY. Seeing the things we repeat over and over and over and over

this breakup is horrible and I don't doubt that. but you've broken up with her nearly a dozen times since I've known you. It's "ended" and nothing is ever going to be the same. Then it starts up again. Then YOU want to end it. Then you talk about it. Then she does/says something that hooks you back in. And it starts up again. Then you worry that this is really 'it" - this is really the end.

And this is "really the end of sanity" - that's another repeat. No matter how many times we feel the edge of madness, and stay on this side of it, each time every single bad episode, you're sure "this is really it. This, for the last and real time, is really going to be the end for me."

Patterns.

Similar actions/thoughts played out in different costumes.

IF we can look at that kind of stuff and try to UNDERSTAND it instead of just "stand" it, that's where major change becomes possible.

Or...we can keep going as we are.

Today is a new day, and "fill in the blank" habit is finally going to be broken. I've taken charge. I can feel that this is the right path....

until....

soon we fall, and we're right back in "fill in the blank' habit again. And we justify it, and we rationalize it (liquor, sex, the book we're GOING to write 'someday', the me I'm going to BE 'someday, teased, avoided, denied, resought, over and over and over....timelessly. And any unproductive pattern will do).

until....

we realize it needs to STOP. So we make a major life decision. And we turn things around 180 degrees! And we're in the driver's seat finally!

until....

that is the essence of neurosis. That is what we do, each in our own way, but it is why nothing ever changes. We are "using" our behaviors and our repeated patterns to "act out" feelings and ideas we don't understand and never HAVE to understand because we're satisfying them by the repeats - instead of learning about ourselves and risking change.

Love ya,
but taking no prisoners today, grin
J
 
G

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
But....for me, and for folks who manage to do successful work in the depth therapies, it's crucial to learn HOW we each individually act, interact, etc. and WHY. Seeing the things we repeat over and over and over and over

this breakup is horrible and I don't doubt that. but you've broken up with her nearly a dozen times since I've known you. It's "ended" and nothing is ever going to be the same. Then it starts up again. Then YOU want to end it. Then you talk about it. Then she does/says something that hooks you back in. And it starts up again. Then you worry that this is really 'it" - this is really the end.

And this is "really the end of sanity" - that's another repeat. No matter how many times we feel the edge of madness, and stay on this side of it, each time every single bad episode, you're sure "this is really it. This, for the last and real time, is really going to be the end for me."

Patterns.

Similar actions/thoughts played out in different costumes.

IF we can look at that kind of stuff and try to UNDERSTAND it instead of just "stand" it, that's where major change becomes possible.

Or...we can keep going as we are.

Today is a new day, and "fill in the blank" habit is finally going to be broken. I've taken charge. I can feel that this is the right path....

until....

soon we fall, and we're right back in "fill in the blank' habit again. And we justify it, and we rationalize it (liquor, sex, the book we're GOING to write 'someday', the me I'm going to BE 'someday, teased, avoided, denied, resought, over and over and over....timelessly. And any unproductive pattern will do).

until....

we realize it needs to STOP. So we make a major life decision. And we turn things around 180 degrees! And we're in the driver's seat finally!

until....

that is the essence of neurosis. That is what we do, each in our own way, but it is why nothing ever changes. We are "using" our behaviors and our repeated patterns to "act out" feelings and ideas we don't understand and never HAVE to understand because we're satisfying them by the repeats - instead of learning about ourselves and risking change.

Love ya,
but taking no prisoners today, grin
J
 
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