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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Janine,

I just finished both your books, and wanted to tell you that they are wonderful. They are smart, well-written, and informative. Two thumbs up. I have a few questions and was wondering if you could help.

Lately, I constantly wonder if everything is purely a figment of my imagination, as if I have created everything around me (as you wrote in your description of DP/DR.) I had these thoughts as passing fears in my youth, but nowhere near this bad. They terrify me unbelievably, yet I cannot seem to ignore them, given the possibility they ?might be true.? At times, I?m convinced that I truly believe that I have invented the entire world, and that a once terrifying thought has now turned into a paranoid delusion (has become ego-systonic) or worse yet, is true. I still cannot figure out why this thought disturbs me so much (even if it were true) as some people actually embrace similar beliefs, and are happy with them. (Solipsism)

With this in mind:

Is there anyway to know if a thought/belief has become ego-systonic?
I regards to Unraveling, do you think bizarre thoughts like these represent more normal fears?
Any suggestions on how one gets over disturbing thoughts/beliefs which cannot be disproved? (In other words, how did you realize the universe was real, etc.)

Lastly, did you ever come to a point where you were sure you?d never feel normal again, or be able to look at the world how you once had before going through such experiences?

You thoughts are greatly appreciated. Please do not stop writing.

Truly,

Jon

P.S. I have a feeling (or paranoid delusion) you know something the rest of us have not yet figured out? :wink:
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Well, gosh darn, lol, thank you for the compliments. Terribly kind of you, and I am very glad to know the books were useful to you. (also very impressed at you using some of the Terms in a sentence?.?ego syntonic? LOL?..made me smile)

I know exactly what you?re talking about ? as in HOW can we know that this is all real, etc. And from where you are right now, I also know it seems like you NEED to know it?s real, as if you can?t ?believe? it?s real unless you can Know it?s real. The ultimate truth however, is that it is utterly impossible for the mind to EVER fathom the kind of certitude you?re looking for.

I looked for it, too. And I literally felt like I could NEVER just ?live? and certainly never be happy trying to do so unless I could have my questions answered and my fears explained, etc?.I needed a kind of Proof of the Universe and of my Self?..I know the trail that leads down and I know how addictive it is. The reality though is that there IS NO proof, and even if there was, it would never be satisfying enough.

You?re not going to be able to just take that information and say ?oh, okay, then I?ll stop thinking about it all..? LOL?.but I needed to say it so you don?t think I?ve latched onto some cosmic Truth that is evading you. There ain?t none ? so it?s not that I am More Knowledgeable about reality than you are. It?s that because my other psychological self-delusions are worked through, I no longer CARE.

That is not to say that I don?t give a damn, lol?.in fact, I care SO much about life, about My life, about my daily experience and the goals I have and the things I do and the people I obsess over (oh, yes, some things never change, grin)..I care about those things MORE than I care about Cosmic Truth and the proof of reality.

Now here?s where it gets tricky. The way I was before felt SO deep and so profound and so much more enlightened (at the time) than the way I sound now. Lies. Self-lies (the worst kind). Have you ever been really drunk (or high) or if not, then known someone who was?and the person thinks they are just ?onto? some brilliant creative burst of genius? They think they must write down their every thought of the moment because it?s Profound and/or something all humans will relate to, etc?..(cocaine is especially good for offering this little experience). And they talk all night and get so excited and feel so extraordinary (the psychiatric term is ?grandiose?).

Then morning comes.

In the bright light of sunshine, they roll over in bed and crumble onto their profound writings from the night before, and think ?oh?oh, god?? and maybe they chuckle or maybe they?re pretty mortified. At any rate they realize fully that the night?s Brilliant Insights was just drunken ramblings. They ?get? that they were believing in some Truth and Power of their altered state was just springing from their own insecurities (probably what made them over-drink or need drugs in the first place). They realize that their little drunken delusion of being ?onto something big? was the way their altered mind was trying to compensate for their ordinary human worries and frailties. And they?re pretty embarrassed that they were able to fool themselves so thoroughly.

That is what dp is doing right now. You think the questions and dilemmas you ponder relentlessly are the Only Important Aspects of Existence. They?re just mirages. They?re nothing more than an ordinary (sorry, grin) person?s imagination that has become so inverted and so psychologically desperate that it conjured up what it THINKS is crucial. It?s subterfuge.

The ?stuff? that can make it go away is not more advanced studies in solipsism, or an Oxford degree in Metaphysics. The stuff that will make it vanish is Ordinary Life stuff, and that?s the stuff you avoid (because you think all that just pales compared to the obsessive thoughts and fears?.see how neatly the little mind trick keeps you right where it wants you?).

The way ?out? is not to ever find Answers to your existential tormenting questions, but to replace their value with real life. In time, and I personally know that therapy (if it?s good) can work wonders here?in time, you will RE-DIRECT your life energies INTO life, and out of the altered state of consciousness that DP feeds off of.

I do not know how to convince someone to DO this. I do however, know it is the way out. The only way that worked for me was to do such an indepth therapy, and to really DO it, to really open up and talk about everything, to really build a relationship with the doctor, to explore every feeling and every fear?..and THAT process, out of that process, came a re-birth.

Something has frozen us, and the ice pond of a result is dp. I don?t know how to tell anyone to get out of it except to explore their own psyche deeply enough, with someone you trust, to Unstick the natural life growth process that you shut down long ago.

Most of us had ?dips? into dp land long before we fell all the way in, and most of us also had existential ponderings and musings that fascinated us long before we became those thoughts? victim. That?s how the mind works. We create the ?building blocks? of a defense long before we realize the monster we?re creating in the basement, then one day it emerges and nearly kills us.

This is not a life sentence. I am living proof of that (and I?m not the only human to recover from these states, lol?I?m just one of the few who also kept a lifelong fascination with the psyche, is a writer, is egotistical enough to keep posting on a selfhelp board because it makes her feel so important, lol?and is studying to be an analyst herself).

And last: did I ever think there was no way out? Every single damn day of my life for nearly 20 years. I had NO hope, none. All I was trying to do was to keep myself from going stark-raving insane. That is the only reason I even BOTHERED doing the analytic treatment, lol?I had no dreams at all that I could ever really be cured of that hell. I just wanted to avoid killing somebody or walking out of a window, or ending up in a mental ward for the rest of my days, drugged up on thorazine and unable to even scream the terror that I knew would never leave my mind.

Peace,
Janine
p.s. Dreamer, this post puts your little tiny mini=posts to shame, lol
 

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I think if there's going to be an award for making posts or emails too long and rambling then that accolade goes to myself I'm afraid (check out Freudian section). You and Dreamer at least make sense, perfect sense in fact, and that makes the posts easy to read. Unlike the jumbled up thoughts I try to place on this board. So here are some!

Gstile, just to reiterate some of what Janine just said in response to you wondering about life etc. Trust me, ask Janine, this obsession is a forte of mine.

At times it crossed my mind that Janine had 'latched onto some Cosmic Truth'. It's easy to believe - how else has she become so at peace with herself? We all want what she's got and its easy to see Janine as some guru, if you are prone to looking for spiritual 'answers'.

Another time it occured to me that us dp'ers had found the cosmic truth, or we're well onto finding it, through cannabis and acid or meditation or just our brilliant minds, and that Janine is actually employed by a secret government as a kind of 'Dana Scully' who gets paid astronomical amounts of money to debunk any thoughts we may have on why we are really here. Yes, quite a spectacular fantasy I know but watch one too many X-Files and your existentialist thoughts can get the better of you.

But, Janine isn't a guru with all the answers, she is someone who has learnt how to become at peace with herself, and therefore doesn't need to make peace with all the other existentialist thoughts. They don't matter any more, because she's too busy living life rather than contemplating living. She knows no more than the rest of us why we are here, what life is about or whether drugs make you see 'the light'. We need to acknowledge that we cannot know the answers, and that by trying to find the answers through our neurotic obsessions, we prevent ourselves from living a full and happy life. We don't need to know the answers to enjoy life. Think of the happiest person you know. Do they know the meaning of life? I doubt it.

I know this because Janine has helped me to understand this, and it begins to make more and more sense everyday. Its tough. Two steps forward, one step back. But at least thats progress.

Gstile, it's totally possible to view the world in one way all your life and have that change around for the better.

Gfunkx
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Janine is actually employed by a secret government as a kind of 'Dana Scully' who gets paid astronomical amounts of money to debunk any thoughts we may have on why we are really here.
I LOVE this fantasy (Scully is one of my heros)

LOL,
The anti-Buddha

In all seriousness, I have NO idea what the meaning of life is (or even if there is a meaning). I just enjoy the stuff I do. If I've found "inner peace' which is doubtful (lol...I'm just as neurotic as the rest of you in many ways), it doesn't feel like peace. It feels like life - and the attendant good, bad, wonderful, horrible, thrilling, tedious, erotic and seduing STUFF that goes along with it. Nothing more. But....nothing less.
 

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When I said inner peace I meant strong enough to not let all the existentialist stuff bother you. If you had found total peace ie didn't get stressed, angry, upset then I woul think that you may actually be a god after all!
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
WOW,

Janine, thank you so much for the response.... I am amazed at how you can translate thoughts into words, etc. BTW, excuse my mispelling of "syntonic" LOL. That's what happens when you type in a hurry with too little sleep.

I totally understand what you are saying, but I can't understand why such thoughts strike such a deep terror in myself, and am convinced that they symbolize something else. I would rather be stuck on a desert island for the rest of my life by myself "mentaly sane," than live with these horrible thoughts. However, I will take your advice and do the therapy.

If you get a chance to read this, do you think that thoughts like these (obsessions, delusions about reality, etc.) stem from emotions turned inwards (like the hidden thoughts sectioned mentioned in your book?)

Many thanks again,

Jon
 
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