[curiousmind]

New research has just been released that examines dissociation from a novel perspective. The large group of researchers claim to have found the root of all dissociation, not just in humans, but across "all species". These findings are profound:

• "The rhythmic activity of a single layer of neurons has now been shown to cause dissociation - an experience involving a feeling of disconnection from the surrounding world."
• "Vesuna and colleagues' work provides compelling evidence that a low-frequency rhythm in the deep posteromedial cortex is an evolutionarily conserved mechanism that underlies dissociation across species." [link]

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02505-z?fbclid=IwAR05h0g3b7sviaFdQlzi6eieFzRMpwj_1i3AksJYbq-7Y632jvV-4AoVMJY

 

[Broken]

"Such studies should also include medicines, such as benzodiazepines and Lamotrigine, that attenuate Ketamine-induced dissociation. "

That's a very interesting sentence. I don't know how long I persevered with Lamotrigine but perhaps I should try again. I noticed absolutely no effect and got up to a relatively high dose in the end.. never had the chance to really try a benzo properly. Just a shitty low dose Diazepam.

Interesting article. Someone posted a recovery story recently and said they partly had relaxation to thank. Anxiety > adrenaline > fight/flight/freeze. Freeze is dissociation I believe with is Physiologically speaking, tension trapped in the muscles. Would be interesting

 

[35467]

I have just read it and read an article about the location.i think it correct. Areas around this location have been found to be larger in MRI scans and overactive in fMRI studies in depersonalisation. The location is a part of the "default mode network" or the network the brain is in when it is at rest and self reflective. The location is to deep in the brain to affect with rTMS but it like to be in several networks with locations you can affect with rTMS. The current french rTMS trail on "angular gyrus" is a central hub in the default mode network might have some affect on it in some. The medial prefrontal cortex and anterior cingulate are also overactive in depersonalization. They are also central hubs in the default mode network. So, the response from this location could likely be turned off by working with these locations in the default mode network. You need neuronavigation to find these location and a deep coil for the medial prefrontal cortex/dorsal nexus. A coil just approved for OCD in the US and likely later in Europa can work on this location also called the "dorsal nexus". It is a depression, OCD, PTSD location.

To this article is a 8.min video where stimulation at the dorso medial prefrontal cortex/dorsal Nexus is done with neuronavigation and the coil that just have been approved in the US that go stimulate deep enough.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4692428/

 

[leminaseri]

I have just read it and read an article about the location.i think it correct. Areas around this location have been found to be larger in MRI scans and overactive in fMRI studies in depersonalisation. The location is a part of the "default mode network" or the network the brain is in when it is at rest and self reflective. The location is to deep in the brain to affect with rTMS but it like to be in several networks with locations you can affect with rTMS. The current french rTMS trail on "angular gyrus" is a central hub in the default mode network might have some affect on it in some. The medial prefrontal cortex and anterior cingulate are also overactive in depersonalization. They are also central hubs in the default mode network. So, the response from this location could likely be turned off by working with these locations in the default mode network. You need neuronavigation to find these location and a deep coil for the medial prefrontal cortex/dorsal nexus. A coil just approved for OCD in the US and likely later in Europa can work on this location also called the "dorsal nexus". It is a depression, OCD, PTSD location.

To this article is a 8.min video where stimulation at the dorso medial prefrontal cortex/dorsal Nexus is done with neuronavigation and the coil that just have been approved in the US that go stimulate deep enough.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4692428/

so if i understand your theory right, if they are able to figure out exactly which areas in our brain are responsible for dpdr, and if they found a coil whats able to go that deep, then we can treat our symptoms?

it sounds too easy for me, i dont know.

 

[35467]

It partly looks like that the "default mode network" is central in depersonalisation with areas that are active at rest/Sleep as very active. I will wait to the french "angular gyrus" trail is published. It is related to the area via the default mode network and might be affected by inhibition angular gyrus. The French trail should do some scannings after the trail and might look for differences in non-responders, partial and full responders. I think it will point towards locations in the prefrontal cortex that is related to the default mode network as the main reason for no or partial response. In no or partial responders the activity might be high in the prefrontal cortex to normalize the network. So, it might settle what location in the prefrontal cortex is central. It has been very confusing until now.

 

[35467]

so if i understand your theory right, if they are able to figure out exactly which areas in our brain are responsible for dpdr, and if they found a coil whats able to go that deep, then we can treat our symptoms?

it sounds too easy for me, i dont know.

The area that is found abnormal and making dissociation is a central hub, -likely the most central in the default mode network. Other areas related to the default mode network is also found affected and overactive in depersonalization like the medial prefrontal, anterior cingulate, angular gyrus, right TPJ. I think the medial prefrontal cortex is the second potent location in the network. The medial prefrontal is central in some depression, OCD and many with depersonalization had their outset with depression or had OCD like symptoms prior to the outset. There are many OCD like symptoms in depersonalization like constant checking and self monitoring. So, I think this location is central. But, it not easy to treat right now. You need a coil for deep rTMS to affect the medial prefrontal and you also need neuronavigation to find locations like angular gyrus and the medial prefrontal cortex. There are almost none in Europe that have both a deep coil and neuronavigation. You also need a location for some prices that is fair and can be paid.

 

[35467]

The area making dissociation will like shift to a normal state when locations it is in network with becomes stimulated. So, you are affecting it indirectly.

 

[Broken]

The retrosplenial cortex seems a pretty fascinating area I hadn't really considered but seeing just basic info about it explains many symptoms of my individual DPD. Particularly episodic memory.. I have some form of dissociative amnesia. I just shut down when challenged, or embarrassed socially.

Dont know what this could hold, looks promising as a new idea though. Has made me consider trying Lamotrigine again. I know one person said they felt nothing for months once, then it was as if one day a lightbulb was switched on... Benzo's in small doses perhaps. Perhaps Clonazepam, although unlikely my GP will prescribe me that

 

[35467]

The retrosplenial cortex seems a pretty fascinating area I hadn't really considered but seeing just basic info about it explains many symptoms of my individual DPD. Particularly episodic memory.. I have some form of dissociative amnesia. I just shut down when challenged, or embarrassed socially.

Dont know what this could hold, looks promising as a new idea though. Has made me consider trying Lamotrigine again. I know one person said they felt nothing for months once, then it was as if one day a lightbulb was switched on... Benzo's in small doses perhaps. Perhaps Clonazepam, although unlikely my GP will prescribe me that

There is likely a difference between a drug induced retrosplenial response and when it likely is responding to a activity from locations it is in network with. We know that both the anterior cingulate and both sides of the dorsomedial prefrontal cortex is overactive in depersonalisation. They are in network with the location though the default mode network. So, it is likely in that response due to activity from other locations. It might explain that less 50% respond in trails with lamotrigine with a 35% reduction because the abnormal activity in locations like the anterior cingulate and the dorsomedial prefrontal cortex is still there.

it is also noteworthy that either lamotrigine or clonazepam as monotherapies have no effect but is combined with a antidepressant when there are seen a effect.

 

[curiousmind]

The retrosplenial cortex seems a pretty fascinating area I hadn't really considered but seeing just basic info about it explains many symptoms of my individual DPD. Particularly episodic memory.. I have some form of dissociative amnesia. I just shut down when challenged, or embarrassed socially.

Dont know what this could hold, looks promising as a new idea though. Has made me consider trying Lamotrigine again. I know one person said they felt nothing for months once, then it was as if one day a lightbulb was switched on... Benzo's in small doses perhaps. Perhaps Clonazepam, although unlikely my GP will prescribe me that

On the retrosplenial cortex

- "It has [...] been suggested that retrosplenial cortex may translate between egocentric (self-centred) and allocentric (world-centred) spatial information, based upon its anatomical location between the hippocampus (where there are allocentric place cell representations) and the parietal lobe (which integrates egocentric sensory information).[15][16]"

- "Its function is currently not well understood, but its location close to visual areas and also to the hippocampal spatial/memory system suggest it may have a role in mediating between perceptual and memory functions"

Sounds relevant to DPDR.

 

[35467]

The article starts with a trail related to mouse and the dissociative effect the "Retrosplenial" have on them. They the move to human brains and say that "posteromedial cortex is the location in human. The is a much larger area than Retrosplenial area. Here is an article about the posteromedial cortex.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213158218302377

 

[forestx5]

I listened to this topic on National Public Radio Yesterday. They dissociated mice with Ketamine and noticed the dissociation was concurrent with electrical oscillations in a certain area of the mice brains.

Then, a neurologist found an epileptic patient who experienced dissociation while having similar electrical oscillations in that region of his brain.

My dissociation was in conjunction with an epileptic syndrome. My illness began with electrical phenomena (seizure induced epileptic discharges), and ended with the electrical convulsions

of Electro Convulsive Therapy. (induced grand mal seizures). I was explaining the experience to my younger brother just the other day and I made the analogy of the ECT

having reset me to "factory defaults".

 

[35467]

I think that psychiatrist, Ruth Lanitus who is a PTSD researcher did some brain scans in the midbrain in 2017 of a structure called the "periaqueductal gray" in the dissociative subtype of PTSD and found the ventral part of it active in the dissociation. The ventral part has been associated with freezing and immobilization in animals. This response was accounting to her made by a overactivity in the ventromedial prefrontal cortex. She said that there was a need for doing studies of deeper structures in the brain in relation to dissociation. Everything there is small and you need a powerful scanner to see the activity of so small structures like a 7.tesla scanner recently developed. We only have one of them in Denmark as they cost around 4.mill dollars and likely expensive to run on hourly basis. Only used for research. But, to make a study of deeper structures in depersonalization like the periaqueductal gray and retrosplenial area in depersonalization could be interesting . I think that a response in retrosplenial area is likely related to the ventral part of the periaqueductal gray. But, it will not change much in relation to treatment as they are so deep. There most be areas in the prefrontal cortex that turns these responses on that can be turn off with rTMS.

 

[iamsufferingalotlmao]

New research has just been released that examines dissociation from a novel perspective. The large group of researchers claim to have found the root of all dissociation, not just in humans, but across "all species". These findings are profound:

• "The rhythmic activity of a single layer of neurons has now been shown to cause dissociation - an experience involving a feeling of disconnection from the surrounding world."
• "Vesuna and colleagues' work provides compelling evidence that a low-frequency rhythm in the deep posteromedial cortex is an evolutionarily conserved mechanism that underlies dissociation across species." [link]

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02505-z?fbclid=IwAR05h0g3b7sviaFdQlzi6eieFzRMpwj_1i3AksJYbq-7Y632jvV-4AoVMJY

I had a spect scan done. Is there anything of potential relevance to this study that I should ask my doc to examine in the scan?

 

[35467]

I had a spect scan done. Is there anything of potential relevance to this study that I should ask my doc to examine in the scan?

No, a SPECT scan is very old and almost never used in research as there are better scanners. They where likely used 30.years ago. This is a very small struture in the center of the brain. To see the activity from such a small area you likely need a 7.tesla fMRI scanner and they are rare and only used for research. There have never been a brain study in depersonalization where a 7.tesla scanner it used. It is all 3.tesla. So, activity in locations very small can not be seen.

 

[forestx5]

7 grand mal seizures did the trick for me. No more unwanted oscillations. It's not necessary to understand the cure, to enjoy the cure.

Let's not get lost in the details. We're patients, not research scientists. LOL