G
Guest
·It's important to know before beginning any discussion of Narcissism that the word is VERY over-used and you can't even get agreement among the psych professionals as to what it means, so confusion is guaranteed to abound. EVERYone on this earth has narcissistic traits and there is nothing wrong with that. It's healthy narcissism i.e., high self-esteem, etc.
When I use the word on this Board, I am usually talking about a narcissistic DISTURBANCE, or disorder. That does not mean that the person loves him/herself too much, but exactly the opposite. Narcissistic Disturbances arise when the person is SO fragile, and has such dark and horrible self-hatred at their core, that they need to create a false SELF image, a tricky way of convincing themselves that they are very powerful and/or special all as ways of hiding from how bad they really feel about themselves underneath.
(also, please know there is so much more to all this, lol. I'm just giving you a TINY gist of the concepts here)
Anyway, people with narcissistic disorders often experience DP states. The reason is multifold, but here are SOME of the things we do in our thinking that sets the stage for DP and obsessive anxiety states:
We usually have two (or more) very distinct images of ourselves. We might be full of self-hate or self-anger, but underneath that, we feel very superior to most people. We have higher standards, expect more, demand more, settle for less, etc. In that self-righteous position, we are convinced that if we just didn't have (i) these terrible symptoms, or (ii) this terrible situation at home, or (any other unacceptable predicament) then we would be able to BE as extraordinary as we think we are.
We are constantly holding onto what we think we COULD be (one day, someday, if only, when x happens, etc.). And we DEFINE ourselves by our Potential, not by our reality.
We are very reactive to SHAME. We become enraged easily over feeling embarrassed or ashamed...and we turn it against ourselves, we become very self-hating as if we failed ourselves and now deserve to suffer.
In order to cope with the big discrepancy between what we ARE and what we WANT TO BE, we have to really do some fancy juggling. And what we juggle is reality. We are constantly living half-in and half-out of reality, but we probably didn't see that until we had a breakdown. Then the DP experience really shows us.
One of the most crippling traits of this type of personality is that we have great difficulty NOT knowing something. We hate learning we want to already KNOW. We hate having to work TOWARDS anything we think if we know what where we want to be, we should already BE there. We hate uncertainty if there is doubt or confusion, we invent an answer and convince ourselves we DO know, even though we may change our minds a hundred times, each time we are positive we KNOW.
We need other people desperately and we hate that fact so much, we pretend we need nobody. Our goal is to be totally self-sufficient, totally self-contained. And anytime the other person in a relationship with us shows their own DISTINCT differences, we freak out. We want total merger or no relationship at all. Total agreement or no discussion at all. Black and white. Nothing in between.
We tend to adore someone or think they're worthless.
We tend to feel on top of the world, or at the bottom of hell.
We refuse to learn how to live in the middle-ground and to ENDURE living even when we're not feeling great. We EXPECT to feel great, and if we don't, we are so enraged that we shut down as if going on strike, lol
And at the core of all this is the feeling/fear that we are nothing. Literally, totally nothing.
When someone doubts that they are even a human, or worth anything, they tend to create symptoms that require them to constantly CHECK themselves (for health problems, for sanity, for a variety of am I feeling real right now? reasons)
We are TOO focused on the sense of self because of a deep and massive terror that we really are nothing.
And in the mix, we tend to become hypochondriacs (imaging we have all kinds of illnesses, or thinking our heart is about to stop, or that we can't breathe if we're not observing our own breathing, etc.)
We tend to dissociate (or have dp/dr) because we are constantly scanning the environment and ourselves for reality checks.
We tend to do very little with our lives, because we are waiting for something waiting for ourselves to feel good enough or powerful enough to be able to instantly achieve what we think we want. We refuse to take steps, to build..we are so fragile that the first disappointment makes us not even want the goal anymore. We are so afraid we can't cope with reality that we live inside our imaginations as consolation.
Make any sense?
My point here (for the 2 or 3 people still reading, lol) is that NO amount of self-observation or self-obsession is going to cure the symptoms, because they were created by the mind for exactly that reason to DISTRACT you and make you watch self as a life activity.
IF a person recognizes him/herself in this thread, and they decide to do some therapy, the goal is to get to know yourself and take a look at some of the deeper fears and misguided defenses that got you into this mess. Recovery and/or working through all this is NOT quick. It takes years, guys.these personality types are VERY hard to treat because we are stubborn and resentful and controlling. And underneath, we're terrified that we will find some Self that we cannot live with. Talking helps, therapy helps. And in the meantime, force yourself to STOP the self-monitoring and the unrealistic expectations and life should get easier.
When I use the word on this Board, I am usually talking about a narcissistic DISTURBANCE, or disorder. That does not mean that the person loves him/herself too much, but exactly the opposite. Narcissistic Disturbances arise when the person is SO fragile, and has such dark and horrible self-hatred at their core, that they need to create a false SELF image, a tricky way of convincing themselves that they are very powerful and/or special all as ways of hiding from how bad they really feel about themselves underneath.
(also, please know there is so much more to all this, lol. I'm just giving you a TINY gist of the concepts here)
Anyway, people with narcissistic disorders often experience DP states. The reason is multifold, but here are SOME of the things we do in our thinking that sets the stage for DP and obsessive anxiety states:
We usually have two (or more) very distinct images of ourselves. We might be full of self-hate or self-anger, but underneath that, we feel very superior to most people. We have higher standards, expect more, demand more, settle for less, etc. In that self-righteous position, we are convinced that if we just didn't have (i) these terrible symptoms, or (ii) this terrible situation at home, or (any other unacceptable predicament) then we would be able to BE as extraordinary as we think we are.
We are constantly holding onto what we think we COULD be (one day, someday, if only, when x happens, etc.). And we DEFINE ourselves by our Potential, not by our reality.
We are very reactive to SHAME. We become enraged easily over feeling embarrassed or ashamed...and we turn it against ourselves, we become very self-hating as if we failed ourselves and now deserve to suffer.
In order to cope with the big discrepancy between what we ARE and what we WANT TO BE, we have to really do some fancy juggling. And what we juggle is reality. We are constantly living half-in and half-out of reality, but we probably didn't see that until we had a breakdown. Then the DP experience really shows us.
One of the most crippling traits of this type of personality is that we have great difficulty NOT knowing something. We hate learning we want to already KNOW. We hate having to work TOWARDS anything we think if we know what where we want to be, we should already BE there. We hate uncertainty if there is doubt or confusion, we invent an answer and convince ourselves we DO know, even though we may change our minds a hundred times, each time we are positive we KNOW.
We need other people desperately and we hate that fact so much, we pretend we need nobody. Our goal is to be totally self-sufficient, totally self-contained. And anytime the other person in a relationship with us shows their own DISTINCT differences, we freak out. We want total merger or no relationship at all. Total agreement or no discussion at all. Black and white. Nothing in between.
We tend to adore someone or think they're worthless.
We tend to feel on top of the world, or at the bottom of hell.
We refuse to learn how to live in the middle-ground and to ENDURE living even when we're not feeling great. We EXPECT to feel great, and if we don't, we are so enraged that we shut down as if going on strike, lol
And at the core of all this is the feeling/fear that we are nothing. Literally, totally nothing.
When someone doubts that they are even a human, or worth anything, they tend to create symptoms that require them to constantly CHECK themselves (for health problems, for sanity, for a variety of am I feeling real right now? reasons)
We are TOO focused on the sense of self because of a deep and massive terror that we really are nothing.
And in the mix, we tend to become hypochondriacs (imaging we have all kinds of illnesses, or thinking our heart is about to stop, or that we can't breathe if we're not observing our own breathing, etc.)
We tend to dissociate (or have dp/dr) because we are constantly scanning the environment and ourselves for reality checks.
We tend to do very little with our lives, because we are waiting for something waiting for ourselves to feel good enough or powerful enough to be able to instantly achieve what we think we want. We refuse to take steps, to build..we are so fragile that the first disappointment makes us not even want the goal anymore. We are so afraid we can't cope with reality that we live inside our imaginations as consolation.
Make any sense?
My point here (for the 2 or 3 people still reading, lol) is that NO amount of self-observation or self-obsession is going to cure the symptoms, because they were created by the mind for exactly that reason to DISTRACT you and make you watch self as a life activity.
IF a person recognizes him/herself in this thread, and they decide to do some therapy, the goal is to get to know yourself and take a look at some of the deeper fears and misguided defenses that got you into this mess. Recovery and/or working through all this is NOT quick. It takes years, guys.these personality types are VERY hard to treat because we are stubborn and resentful and controlling. And underneath, we're terrified that we will find some Self that we cannot live with. Talking helps, therapy helps. And in the meantime, force yourself to STOP the self-monitoring and the unrealistic expectations and life should get easier.
