This is a bit of a digression, but when I was healthy I got a strong runner's high. All it took was some ten minutes of running, and there it was. But now, alas, every feeling I have is so watered out I scarcely feel a thing, runner's high included.
My naloxone trial
I've got six Nyxoid nasal sprays, each containing 1.8 mg naloxone. I used the first of them today, eight minutes ago. To get a smaller dose, I blew my nose right after taking the first dose. Got five more doses left for later.
Why try? In the British Journal of Psychiatry they write.
Nuller et al(2001) found a significant transient beneficial effect of naloxone infusion on symptoms of depersonalisation in 10 of 14 patients studied. This intriguing result suggests a possible role of the endogenous opioid system in the pathogenesis of depersonalisation, and the possibility that anti-opioid drugs may have therapeutic value. To date, this hypothesis has not been explored further in the literature, despite the impressive results from this pilot study.
Why try? In the British Journal of Psychiatry they write.
Nuller et al(2001) found a significant transient beneficial effect of naloxone infusion on symptoms of depersonalisation in 10 of 14 patients studied. This intriguing result suggests a possible role of the endogenous opioid system in the pathogenesis of depersonalisation, and the possibility that anti-opioid drugs may have therapeutic value. To date, this hypothesis has not been explored further in the literature, despite the impressive results from this pilot study.
21 - 38 of 38 Posts
CONCLUSION
Four days, titrated the dose upwards and it had no effect whatsoever.
I feel somewhat better by things like taking a double dose of Ambien, but naloxone? Nope. I'll hopefully try Klonopin for the first time next week.
Four days, titrated the dose upwards and it had no effect whatsoever.
I feel somewhat better by things like taking a double dose of Ambien, but naloxone? Nope. I'll hopefully try Klonopin for the first time next week.
klonopin is the US tradename for clonazepam. In most of Europe it is traded as "Rivotril". When it is used with success in DP it is in a combination with a antidepressant.
I am trying clonazepam due to this paragraph, and the fact that Ambien has helped somewhat. Anyhow, I see that, like you write, it may work better with an antidepressant.
When lamotrigine cannot be tolerated or is ineffective, clonazepam may be useful, although the usual caveats regarding prescription of benzodiazepines apply. Although literature on the use of clonazepam in depersonalisation is scarce, one study found that it reduced levels of caffeine-induced derealisation in a single individual (Stein & Uhde, 1989). A role for anxiolytic drugs is also suggested by the data of Nuller (1982), and a recent case report describes an individual with primary depersonalisation successfully treated with a combination of clonazepam and citalopram (Sachdev, 2002). As Sachdev notes, the same combination has apparently been found effective by a number of contributors to an internet bulletin board for people with depersonalisation.
I am no fan of antidepressants. I was about to say they sap me for energy, but I haven't had much energy lately anyhow.
When lamotrigine cannot be tolerated or is ineffective, clonazepam may be useful, although the usual caveats regarding prescription of benzodiazepines apply. Although literature on the use of clonazepam in depersonalisation is scarce, one study found that it reduced levels of caffeine-induced derealisation in a single individual (Stein & Uhde, 1989). A role for anxiolytic drugs is also suggested by the data of Nuller (1982), and a recent case report describes an individual with primary depersonalisation successfully treated with a combination of clonazepam and citalopram (Sachdev, 2002). As Sachdev notes, the same combination has apparently been found effective by a number of contributors to an internet bulletin board for people with depersonalisation.
I am no fan of antidepressants. I was about to say they sap me for energy, but I haven't had much energy lately anyhow.
When I took 2,5 mg of Rivotril I was on Duloxetin 60.mg. It is the drug i tolerate the best. It can give some nausea if one starts with 60.mg at once so 30.mg is recommend the first week.
Oh, dang. I got a message today from my GP, about not getting clonazepam.When I took 2,5 mg of Rivotril I was on Duloxetin 60.mg. It is the drug i tolerate the best. It can give some nausea if one starts with 60.mg at once so 30.mg is recommend the first week.
Valium. Would that somehow work, or? Your thoughts on this is appreciated, Mayer-Gross. I have taken Valium once before, but my memories of it is so vague.
As we know there is no blood test for F48.1. I've got a sky high score on the CDS, and lots of things mesh with DPD. The main reason I'd like to try clonazepam is to use it as a diagnostic tool. If I indeed get somewhat better, then it underpins that I have F48.1. I am not thinking about benzodiazepines as a permanent fix (they aren't), but like I wrote, primarily as a diagnostic tool
It can not be used as a diagnostic tool. I would guess that 20-30% might feel a response.So, if that is your idea,- drop it.
I know a danish women who felt nothing from it except being extremely tried. When it works it is the opposite. You fell much more energy and more present . I had tried other benzodiazepines prior to clonazepam without a similar effect. It could be that i was on other antidepressant. It likely shall be on a antidepressant that also works and you have been on for 4-6.weeks before such effect can be felt. There is no blodtest for any mental disorder and DNA test.
I know a danish women who felt nothing from it except being extremely tried. When it works it is the opposite. You fell much more energy and more present . I had tried other benzodiazepines prior to clonazepam without a similar effect. It could be that i was on other antidepressant. It likely shall be on a antidepressant that also works and you have been on for 4-6.weeks before such effect can be felt. There is no blodtest for any mental disorder and DNA test.
The blood test comment was meant as a sigh. I haven't got a diagnosis in the F-realm of ICD, so if I indeed get better, that would indicate we're talking about an F-diagonsis. That's what I meant by "diagnostic tool". As a tool it would not be precise as a scalpel, but blunt as a stone.It can not be used as a diagnostic tool. I would guess that 20-30% might feel a response.So, if that is your idea,- drop it.
I know a danish women who felt nothing from it except being extremely tried. When it works it is the opposite. You fell much more energy and more present . I had tried other benzodiazepines prior to clonazepam without a similar effect. It could be that i was on other antidepressant. It likely shall be on a antidepressant that also works and you have been on for 4-6.weeks before such effect can be felt. There is no blodtest for any mental disorder and DNA test.
Much appreciated, your comments about other benzos. I looked over my digital journal now, and see I have used diazepam on some occations for sleep long, long ago. Sometimes I got somewhat better the next day, but most days not.
A very odd way to get a diagnosis. You most have a medical history with symptoms you have reported that are in journals. There are scales for the disorder that can be used. If you had a reduction of 30% on clonazepam it would still be very subjective and not something that can be evaluated from the outside. If there are no psychiatrists in your country aware of depersonalisation then it will change nothing. It the UK it is also very underdiagnose despite there have been a research unit for 20.years. The whole foundation of the charity "Unreal" is not about treatment but to bring awareness of the existence to those who suffer from it and health care professional. You may just be in a situation where it is not there.
Here is the situation in Germany;"However, a German study found a 12-month prevalence of 0.007 based on diagnoses given by clinicians, which suggests DPD is severely underdiagnosed, making research challenging in this population.3 Individuals with DPD experience recurrent episodes of feeling detached from oneself (depersonalization) and/or the external world (derealization). Other clinical phenomena of DPD include emotional numbing and somatosensory distortions.4"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6158023/
Here is the situation in Germany;"However, a German study found a 12-month prevalence of 0.007 based on diagnoses given by clinicians, which suggests DPD is severely underdiagnosed, making research challenging in this population.3 Individuals with DPD experience recurrent episodes of feeling detached from oneself (depersonalization) and/or the external world (derealization). Other clinical phenomena of DPD include emotional numbing and somatosensory distortions.4"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6158023/
Yeah, so it wouldn't be to evaluate it from the outside, but for myself. I've never seriously explored psychiatric diagnosis before. Only had them thoroughly excluded by a professional early in my case history (excluded mood disorders, excluded schizophrenia, excluded personality disorders, etc).If you had a reduction of 30% on clonazepam it would still be very subjective and not something that can be evaluated from the outside.
But I now have become aware of DPD, and I score really high on the Cambridge Depersonalization Scale, so I think it's a great fit. Pretty much everything fits. So, for my own sake, if a psychotropic drug would make me (temporarily) better, then that would be good to know. It would underpin the rest.
So, you are hoping for a conformation that you suffer from this refractory/difficult to treat condition by having a response to a treatment of it that do not formally exist. Sounds very reasonable to me.
Something that underpins something is not a confirmation. It's just something that underpins something. So, there are no good treatments of DPD. No good treatments. But Anthony S. David et al. writes this about clonazepam.
Regarding treatment for depersonalisation disorder
4 e clonazepam is useful in some patients.
You won't find such treatment advice for say A49.3. I don't want to discuss my medical history here out in the open, but yes, I do really think it would be valuable to know if I could get better by a psychotropic drug. I don't see what's off about that. Just like if someone got better by corticosteroids it would indicate they have some sort of inflammation, though what type and the cause would not be known. It would only be an indication.
Regarding treatment for depersonalisation disorder
4 e clonazepam is useful in some patients.
You won't find such treatment advice for say A49.3. I don't want to discuss my medical history here out in the open, but yes, I do really think it would be valuable to know if I could get better by a psychotropic drug. I don't see what's off about that. Just like if someone got better by corticosteroids it would indicate they have some sort of inflammation, though what type and the cause would not be known. It would only be an indication.
I got better on clonazepam 2.5 mg in 2004. I didn't know i had DP but the effect will go away after some 5-6. months due to tolerance and you likely have to use the same amount of time to get of it and you have been on it. Everybody develops tolerance to a benzodiazepine. We tried to find an alternative among the antiepileptic drugs that also affect the GABA system like gabapentine and topiramat. Because of tolerance and the effect in short in the few it works does that you can not be compered with the treatment of a inflammation.
But, you would also take it without have been on a antidepressant for some time. That would really increase your chances.
But, you would also take it without have been on a antidepressant for some time. That would really increase your chances.
I think the chances on a combination of lamictal and antidepressant is just as high as clonazepam. There should be no problem with tolerance if it works. It is much easier to get a prescription on lamictal than clonazepam. I was by the way offered some years ago to start on clonazepam again by the last psychiatrist i saw . I refused that because if it worked i would develop tolerance to it within 5-6.months.
Some people get symptom relief from corticosteroids without having an inflammation; some people don't improve by corticosteriods yet still have an inflammation. So to use diagnostic terms, neither the specificity or sensitivity is 100 %. I guess back in 2004 when you got better from clonazepam it made you less prone to think something like mononucleosis could be driving your symptoms, if you ever thought so.
Anyways, did you feel some sort of improvement instantaneously on clonazepam? I get instantaneous improvement from Ambien. I used to get instantaneous improvement from alcohol, a single unit of alcohol was enough. That was long ago, and now alcohol doesn't have such an effect. Or, well, I tried two units of alcohol just recently, and it did nothing. But I don't want to try a higher dose. Why it no longer works, I dunno. It could be that I need to break some sort of threshold, needing a higher dose, and it could be the disease has progressed and changed since it broke out.
I know full well about withdrawl. I have had Ambien withdrawl, which ain't good, but have never tried anything stronger. You could say using benzos is playing with fire, and I would agree, but I can limit the number of pills I get to less than a full box, and decide that I shall only take 0.5 mg one day, wait some days, try a higher dose, etc.
I don't want a dead-end diagnosis by a public health care system that doesn't do a damn thing. I have no faith in a psychiatrist who has nothing to offer but to perform an interview he/she has just looked up how to do and has never done before.
Anyways, did you feel some sort of improvement instantaneously on clonazepam? I get instantaneous improvement from Ambien. I used to get instantaneous improvement from alcohol, a single unit of alcohol was enough. That was long ago, and now alcohol doesn't have such an effect. Or, well, I tried two units of alcohol just recently, and it did nothing. But I don't want to try a higher dose. Why it no longer works, I dunno. It could be that I need to break some sort of threshold, needing a higher dose, and it could be the disease has progressed and changed since it broke out.
I know full well about withdrawl. I have had Ambien withdrawl, which ain't good, but have never tried anything stronger. You could say using benzos is playing with fire, and I would agree, but I can limit the number of pills I get to less than a full box, and decide that I shall only take 0.5 mg one day, wait some days, try a higher dose, etc.
I don't want a dead-end diagnosis by a public health care system that doesn't do a damn thing. I have no faith in a psychiatrist who has nothing to offer but to perform an interview he/she has just looked up how to do and has never done before.
But, the majority with depersonalisation who tries clonazepam do not benefit from it,- so it is not a diagnostic tool. When i had such a paradoxical reaction there was thought in neurological causes like epilepsy because nobody knew about depersonalisation. I have never by myself thought i suffered from anything somatic. Some psychtrists had over the time thought it could be a neurolocal condition that didn't had enough clair symptoms yet. So, i was though a examination for that.
But, some will say that since clonazepam works depersonalisation disorder dosn´t exist because it is a anxiety disorder with symptoms of depersonalisation/derealisation. You have go to therapy for anxiety. That is the position among some psychiatrists have here in Denmark.
But, some will say that since clonazepam works depersonalisation disorder dosn´t exist because it is a anxiety disorder with symptoms of depersonalisation/derealisation. You have go to therapy for anxiety. That is the position among some psychiatrists have here in Denmark.
I do not think that 0.5.mg of clonazepam will make any significant reductions in depersonalisation if it should work. i tried to reduce it from the 2.5 mg i remember and i felt it. My psychiatrist was happy something worked and was ok with giving me it. He said we could go as high as 2.mg -3.times a day. 6.mg in total and see if more symptoms would go away. He had to stop shortly after due to illness
I have never thought I suffered from anything psychiatric. Mononucleosis, CFS and lots of other diagnosis have been suggested.I have never by myself thought i suffered from anything somatic.
The majority who tries picking a lock with a binder clip fails, but that doesn't mean a binder clip is not a tool, it just means it's not a good tool, not a professional tool. If I'd take clonazepam and nothing happens, then whatever, but if I'd take clonazepam and I'd get some sort of instantaneous relief, then that would indicate my symptoms are psychiatric. Such an indication would be valuable to me. I guess it wouldn't be valuable to you, but to me, yes. Sure, sure, people with neurological conditions can also improve from benzos (absolutely!), but nonetheless it would be an indication I am on the right track.But, the majority with depersonalisation who tries clonazepam do not benefit from it,- so it is not a diagnostic tool.
Bully for me that such people aren't in charge of me. If I'd get better, then I'd think "gee this means an F-diagnosis is more probable", and the only F-diagnosis that hasn't been ruled out, which gives anhedonia, is F48.1, where I score off the charts on the symptom scale. Getting such affirmation would be encouraging going forth, when making attempts at getting further treatment.But, some will say that since clonazepam works depersonalisation disorder dosn´t exist because it is a anxiety disorder with symptoms of depersonalisation/derealisation. You have go to therapy for anxiety. That is the position among some psychiatrists have here in Denmark.
If I'd get access to clonazepam, which I won't do in the near future, then I'd try 0.5 mg and then wait, then a bigger dose, say 1.0 mg, then wait, then a bigger dose, so on and so forth. Much appreciated what you write about doses! That you needed a higher dose!
21 - 38 of 38 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Depersonalization Support Forum
A forum community dedicated to support for those living with depersonalization disorder. Come join the discussion about treatment, health, life styles, spirituality, medication, research, recovery, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Recommended Communities
