[teal]

I've got six Nyxoid nasal sprays, each containing 1.8 mg naloxone. I used the first of them today, eight minutes ago. To get a smaller dose, I blew my nose right after taking the first dose. Got five more doses left for later.

Why try? In the British Journal of Psychiatry they write.

Nuller et al(2001) found a significant transient beneficial effect of naloxone infusion on symptoms of depersonalisation in 10 of 14 patients studied. This intriguing result suggests a possible role of the endogenous opioid system in the pathogenesis of depersonalisation, and the possibility that anti-opioid drugs may have therapeutic value. To date, this hypothesis has not been explored further in the literature, despite the impressive results from this pilot study.

 

[Broken]

This is really interesting. What were the effects after taking it? I have thought of trying this myself but wouldnt know how to get hold of it. How did you get it in the uk? I will follow this thread am really intrigued to see how it goes

 

[35467]

Several have tried it on the forum either as injection or nasal spray without effect. Doses of 4.mg have some injected . The "study" has never been replicated. This brings us to what is called the replication crisis in almost all fells. In social psychology under 45% of the "known things" can be replicated. Studies unto 80.years old have been rejected because they cannot be replicated -so the claims of false. In medicine there are also a replication crisis and i would say the many trials in relation to depersonalisation can be severely affected because many trials are so small, have often never been replicated. So, people who trys drugs and post it here becomes a kind of replication or supplement to data. Naloxone do not have it.

"In the past few years, there has been a growing controversy surrounding the validity of a number of cornerstone medical research papers. For example, Amgen, a US biotech company, attempted to replicate 53 high-impact cancer research studies and were reportedly able to replicate only six. Similarly, researchers from Bayer, a German pharmaceutical company, reported that they were only able to replicate 24 out of 67 studies. Moreover, John Ioannidis, MD, Professor of Medicine and Statistics at Stanford University-a strong voice in the replication debate-showedthat of 45 of the most influential clinical studies, only 44% were successfully replicated."

https://www.castoredc.com/blog/replication-crisis-medical-research/

 

[teal]

Appreciated, Broken. What the effects are? Nothing so far. I will prolly take a whole dose tomorrow, then a double dose on Saturday, then a double dose on Sunday, and then I am out of Naloxone and all done. There is a study on Naltrexone (sic) and depersonlization as well. How I got it? I'll send you a PM. That said, I have much more faith in things like the magnet treatment used in more recent studies.

UPDATE DAY 1. It's three hours since I took the dose. I've got some lightheadedness and dizziness. It's not bothersome.

@Mayer-Gross, yeah, people posting here does indeed become some sort of anecdotal supplement to data. That's why I post.

 

[35467]

I was convinced until 10.years ago that the opiopate system was the cause of depersonalisation -particularly the kappa receptor system. I think it plays a part in particularly the emotional numbing. People who could tolerate high doses of naltrexone (more than 100.mg) felt a slight reduction. Some who have tried buprenorphin that has a high affinity for kappa felt some reductions close to 20%. If the kappa opioid system play a signification role the reductions would be much higher on buprenorphin. It is not. Dynorphin are expressed in the medial prefronal cortex and can inhibit the amygdala and anxiety and likely make emotional numbing but other parts of the prefronal cortex is overactive in emotional suppression and will not be affected by it. In theory rTMS could affect these locations too.

 

[Trith]

As I posted somewhere else, I am currently taking naltrexone and I experience a slight improvement in my derealization symptoms. It was more obvious the first time I tried it and now the effect seems to have faded away a bit, or perhaps it is hard to distinguish it because I have also started taking amisulpride.

I got it from my psychiatrist. I told him about the study and he simply offered to give me a prescription to try it. He told me he was comfortable giving me a prescription for that as it is something he is used to give to people, because he has a lot of patients dealing with alcoholism problems (which is the original purpose of naltrexone).

In the paper, they use a low dose, around 6 mg/d. My prescription was for 50 mg pills, which is the smallest on the market. I cut them down to 6 mg, and the effect was good. Reality was a bit sharper, and I was more aware of the atmosphere of places, which was quite enjoyable. But I was still not in 3D, and I think I was still quite numb emotionally, no noticeable differences socially either. The effect lasted for about 12 hours. I tried increasing the dose to 25 mg. I did not notice further improvement in my symptoms, but I tended to feel a bit shitty emotionally, but I am not sure it is the medicine, perhaps also my random life circumstances. But that lasted for something like 12h too, so it could be related. I felt a bit like life had less purpose, and things were shitty.

Now I am taking 12 mg/d, but as I said I find the effect much more subtle than before.

 

[35467]

it has a very short half-life. It is a acute treatment for a opiate overdose. It can never be a treatment for a disorder due to it short half-life.

"In one study the serum half-life in adults ranged from 30 to 81 minutes (mean 64 ± 12 minutes). In a neonatal study the mean plasma half-life was observed to be 3.1 ± 0.5 hours."

https://www.rxlist.com/narcan-drug.htm

 

[35467]

@Mayer-Gross, yeah, people posting here does indeed become some sort of anecdotal supplement to data. That's why I post.

Well, the trail is likely false and a lie. The half-life of naloxone alone would put question into the claimed effect. Many have tried it here. A person that have had DP for most of his life from Switzerland called "huggybear" had his insurance company to pay for several high dose infusions at hospital without effect. He have deleted his profile and all posts. But, many others have posted their experiences too and none points towards it have any effects. There are many debates going 10.years back in the subject. There is none who have been able to make a replication that could not be viewed as placebo.

But, as i said. There is a replication crisis where at least 50% cannot be replicated in medicine and that is in studies with more empirical data sets. Because all trail in relation to DP is very small the replication crisis might be much higher in publication in relation to depersonalisation. There has been a "studies" with "trials" of lamotrigine with a high response rate and reductions that has been retracted because they where fraud. People do post here with reference to it despite it is openly retracted.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21192145

 

[teal]

I've already got the naloxone, and I am giving it a shot.

I found one or two positive reports on Reddit, if I remember correctly. Once I am done, anyone curious about naloxone will have one more case to build on.

Trials suspected of being false or a lie need also to be rebutted. As of recently the BJP wrote about the Russian results as intriguing. The more nonresponders, the less intriguing, and vice versa.

I know full well that the results of many trials are un-replicatable.

 

[35467]

You often have a placebo effect that might be close to 20-30% in some. So, many will report benefit of anything they do.Many posts on this forum about different things tried that worked is likely related to that. I never read it for the same reason, The awareness of a replication crisis is very recent and that trial goes 20.years back. But, the replication crisis is related to recent publications with a high citations. It can be publication with over 2000.citations. In social psychology it is 80.years old trials with high citations that now is being rejected . So, publication that might seem to have high standards have been published and more than 50% fails. Often are those doing the trials active with a partiality and selective in their perception of data. Many researchers are aware of it now. In the german DTI study of depersonalisation they say that they will avoid certain interpretations due to the risk of failure of replication of data. So, they have been aware of it. We also have our selective perceptions and hopes that do data will perceived in optimist ways there is no basis for.

 

[Trith]

You often have a placebo effect that might be close to 20-30% in some. So, many will report benefit of anything they do

How do you know they only had a placebo effect? As far as I know, you need a proper study to rule out the placebo effect, but you also need a proper study if you want to prove it is the placebo effect.

And you say that some have an effect up to 20 - 30% due to placebo. How did you determine it was a placebo effect for specific individuals? Or perhaps you are talking about people who have tried something like homeopathy.

 

[35467]

As i said the opioid system likely plays a role in depersonalisation but not more than 20-30% of the symptoms. Naloxone can never be a treatment due to its short half-life. If our opioid system is up-regulated it will return very quickly when the effect subsides. I think the trial overestimate reductions and setbacks. The same can be said about the rTMS trials. They do no do a follow up on people in months after to look for setbacks or more reductions. In theory some might in a rTMS have a 40% reduction in symptoms that could make more psychological approaches work and make more reductions.Some could return to the original state within a year. We don´t know. It could be both. The french study will look into that.

 

[35467]

How do you know they only had a placebo effect? As far as I know, you need a proper study to rule out the placebo effect, but you also need a proper study if you want to prove it is the placebo effect.

And you say that some have an effect up to 20 - 30% due to placebo. How did you determine it was a placebo effect for specific individuals? Or perhaps you are talking about people who have tried something like homeopathy.

Yes, and there is no control group in most studies to rule that out. But, if you look at the theories based on the opioid system in depersonalisation disorder the prime suspect in the part of the system related to kappa/dynorphin system. The affinity of naltrexone on that system is low. We know that from studies of the drug. It mostly affect the endorphins system in a dose of 50.mg and you need a dose 3-5.times higher to affect the the kappa/dynorphin system. The is simple pharmacology. So, to say that a low dose of naltrexone works is very unlikely as not have any affect at all on the opioid system. I have tried both naltrexone 50.mg and nalmefene 18.mg.

There is a placebo effect in almost everything to many people. People buy experience creams that don´t work and the think they look better ect.

 

[curiousmind]

There has been a "studies" with "trials" of lamotrigine with a high response rate and reductions that has been retracted because they where fraud. People do post here with reference to it despite it is openly retracted.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21192145

This study claims a really high response rate. Do we know why it was retracted?

 

[35467]

I remember when i first read it stroked me that they had the same surname and there was no other authors. So, family related. The other thing is the claim of being at out-pateint programme with such high numbers a patients in the former Sovjet. The awareness of depersonalisation is very low and so many people ending being referred to a outpatient programme sounds very unrealistic. Their response rate is also much higher than the english data. I think it is all made up.

it can be read here.https://www.researchgate.net/publication/49715384_Lamotrigine_in_the_Immediate_Treatment_of_Outpatients_With_Depersonalization_Disorder_Without_Psychiatric_Comorbidity_Randomized_Double-Blind_Placebo-Controlled_Study

 

[teal]

The other thing is the claim of being at out-pateint programme with such high numbers a patients in the former Sovjet. The awareness of depersonalisation is very low and so many people ending being referred to a outpatient programme sounds very unrealistic. Their response rate is also much higher than the english data. I think it is all made up.

I think you're right.

A while back, maybe half a year, I found some reports on Reddit, in the comment section, about getting better on naloxone. I did this Google search now: site:reddit.com depersonalization naloxone OR narcan

And with those keywords, I took a quick look over the comment section, I didn't see any "I got better from naloxone", but I saw this.

I'm on lamictal and it's doing great so far.

I was sick for 5 years prior to this and then tried Lamacital and it cured me for 7 years . Unfortunately it just came back (...)

So, DAY 2.

I've taken a dose of Nyxoid 30 minutes ago. So far I feel nothing.

Update. One hour fifty minutes after taking the dose, I got diarrhea.

 

[curiousmind]

I think it is all made up.

Definitely a suspicious trial, but why would anyone be interested in publishing fake information to the public, especially when it concerns such a delicate field of research?

 

[teal]

DAY 3
Used two Nyxoid nasal sprays four minutes ago. So this is the first day with a double dose.
Update: During the day I got quite a lot of lightheadedness.

 

[teal]

DAY 4
I got no sleep tonight. That happens sometimes. Rarely, but sometimes. It could be a side effect of yesterday's naloxone use, but hard to tell.

Four minutes ago I took two doses, i.e. two x 1.8 mg naloxone.

This is the last day.

UPDATE. I got some sleep after taking the doses. Hard to fall asleep, as always, but I managed. Still I've had no positive effect of the Nyxoid. No positive effect whatsoever.

 

[35467]

It is the part of the opioid system called kappa/dynorphin that is thought to make a aversive, numbing and dissociate state. There are no drugs selective for kappa. But, the part of the opioid system that morfin and heroine binds to is called MU or endorphin receptor. It give pleasure, one fells relaxed. "Runners high" is related to that. Naltrexone, naloxone and nalmefene blocks this effect. You cannot get "runners high" on them. Because the affinity for kappa is very low most people will not feel it takes DP symptoms but it may give them a more flat feeling as that endorphin system is taken out.