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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just to clarify re Focus Outward, and the dangers of observing self.

When somebody has a physical pain, it might also help to not focus right ON the injured area - the notion of "distract yourself" is probably good advice. The more we sit and stare at the throbbing body part, the more we are conscious of the pain.

But...that is not what I'm saying with DP.

If you have a busted foot, the foot is going to heal whether you "focus on it" or not. It is going to heal at exactly the same RATE whether you focus on it or not. You can sit there and stare at your foot 24/7, or you can do everything in your power to not think about it, and it will heal at exactly the same rate.

With DP, the self-monitoring STOPS the healing.

This is not "oh, you'll feel better if you're not focused on it" like with the foot.

Depersonalization, derealization (dissociative altered states of consciousness) THRIVE on self-observation. They blossom, flourish and pulsate under the direct light of self-monitoring.

I do not say "do everything you can to NOT focus on yourself" just to help you get through the day a little easier. Every time you indulge in lenthy self-observation, you are solidifying the DP symptoms. Casting them in cement. Grinding them into your Self.

Trust me. With careful self-observation, never waivering, you can keep this symptom with you for life.

Peace,
J
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Just to clarify re Focus Outward, and the dangers of observing self.

When somebody has a physical pain, it might also help to not focus right ON the injured area - the notion of "distract yourself" is probably good advice. The more we sit and stare at the throbbing body part, the more we are conscious of the pain.

But...that is not what I'm saying with DP.

If you have a busted foot, the foot is going to heal whether you "focus on it" or not. It is going to heal at exactly the same RATE whether you focus on it or not. You can sit there and stare at your foot 24/7, or you can do everything in your power to not think about it, and it will heal at exactly the same rate.

With DP, the self-monitoring STOPS the healing.

This is not "oh, you'll feel better if you're not focused on it" like with the foot.

Depersonalization, derealization (dissociative altered states of consciousness) THRIVE on self-observation. They blossom, flourish and pulsate under the direct light of self-monitoring.

I do not say "do everything you can to NOT focus on yourself" just to help you get through the day a little easier. Every time you indulge in lenthy self-observation, you are solidifying the DP symptoms. Casting them in cement. Grinding them into your Self.

Trust me. With careful self-observation, never waivering, you can keep this symptom with you for life.

Peace,
J
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks janine for that post.

I understand that self-observation in the main problem with Dp, but how can we convince ourselves it's only self-observation who keeps us terribly like that? And how to focus outward more than 5 sec.? Very hard, because after focusing outward (I talk for me, example, I enjoy a TV show, or enjoy a movie, a show), I return to my "reality", and seem to have hours passed by, I feel more detached, like I returned to my life and feel more dissociated.

Thanks a lot

Cyn xxx
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thanks janine for that post.

I understand that self-observation in the main problem with Dp, but how can we convince ourselves it's only self-observation who keeps us terribly like that? And how to focus outward more than 5 sec.? Very hard, because after focusing outward (I talk for me, example, I enjoy a TV show, or enjoy a movie, a show), I return to my "reality", and seem to have hours passed by, I feel more detached, like I returned to my life and feel more dissociated.

Thanks a lot

Cyn xxx
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Keep trying.

Everyone finds their own method, way, etc.

I don't have any quick suggestions. It's hard. Feels nearly impossible.

You will fail every time you try it. But...you will also succeed even if it's for only five minutes.

Keep trying.

And then keep trying more.

And more.

It might take MONTHS of every ounce of your energy - it is one of the hardest thing you will ever do.

And the thing you "win" at the end is your mind back.

Peace,
Janine
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Keep trying.

Everyone finds their own method, way, etc.

I don't have any quick suggestions. It's hard. Feels nearly impossible.

You will fail every time you try it. But...you will also succeed even if it's for only five minutes.

Keep trying.

And then keep trying more.

And more.

It might take MONTHS of every ounce of your energy - it is one of the hardest thing you will ever do.

And the thing you "win" at the end is your mind back.

Peace,
Janine
 

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thank you for that post...

things for me are getting harder and harder but i am so desperate to feel normal again...

reading that just helps think straight again.

:)
 

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413 Posts
thank you for that post...

things for me are getting harder and harder but i am so desperate to feel normal again...

reading that just helps think straight again.

:)
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
explain this to me

Today, i go to class, i drive there, park the car, get out of the car & begin to walk to the building, out of NOWHERE & i mean nowhere feelings of weirdness just strike me. I get a little headache & things justappear weird. I feel very uncomfortable. So i go inside, go to the cafeteria, sit down and than suddenly anxiety sets in. For no reason i might add, i wasn't consciouslly anxious about anything prior to going to class. When i get to class the anxiety stays for most of the class & i guess what i would call Derealization is pretty intense.

Why is this?? I wasn't focusing inward until i started feeling weirder.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
explain this to me

Today, i go to class, i drive there, park the car, get out of the car & begin to walk to the building, out of NOWHERE & i mean nowhere feelings of weirdness just strike me. I get a little headache & things justappear weird. I feel very uncomfortable. So i go inside, go to the cafeteria, sit down and than suddenly anxiety sets in. For no reason i might add, i wasn't consciouslly anxious about anything prior to going to class. When i get to class the anxiety stays for most of the class & i guess what i would call Derealization is pretty intense.

Why is this?? I wasn't focusing inward until i started feeling weirder.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi Bro,

Maybe just the idea of going in class makes you anxious without consciously knowing it? Or maybe you "know" you will feel this way (bad) in class, so your mind sets up to feel that way everytime?

I say that because I have too this problem, but in shopping centers (lol), it's like a pattern and Dp seems to coming out of nowhere, but it may be our mind playing tricks on us!

Hang on,

Cyn
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hi Bro,

Maybe just the idea of going in class makes you anxious without consciously knowing it? Or maybe you "know" you will feel this way (bad) in class, so your mind sets up to feel that way everytime?

I say that because I have too this problem, but in shopping centers (lol), it's like a pattern and Dp seems to coming out of nowhere, but it may be our mind playing tricks on us!

Hang on,

Cyn
 

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Ms. Baker-Freud said:
Trust me. With careful self-observation, never waivering, you can keep this symptom with you for life.
AHHHHHHHHHHHH! That's a scary thought. But yes, Janine, I agree all the way. This is a great post- thank you.

-Grant with an "R"

Subliminal message: read Janine's books. She isn't paying me for this advert-isement.
 

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Ms. Baker-Freud said:
Trust me. With careful self-observation, never waivering, you can keep this symptom with you for life.
AHHHHHHHHHHHH! That's a scary thought. But yes, Janine, I agree all the way. This is a great post- thank you.

-Grant with an "R"

Subliminal message: read Janine's books. She isn't paying me for this advert-isement.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
For me it was the only way out. Your post reminded me of a way I used to think about 'it'
A way I thought of resisting the urge to think ones way out was to use the analogy that if you had a scab over a wound and you kept on picking it, it would never get better.
You could in theory keep a sore going forever if you kept a constant picking up. No matter how itchy, irritating, sore it is you have to resist picking at it. We know in the end that's what we have to do and that's how it heals.
There have been times as Ive said before that I would be back sucked into DP land again. For me it is always secondary to anxiety and depression. But once the DP hits it seems this is me gone this time.
But each time and Ive had a few relapses over the years the way out is always the same. Takes time as Janine says. My last relapse was 3 years ago and it took me 12 months to get to the point where if I get that DP kind of feeling thinking, I can just let the urge go in a few seconds. It still tricks me for a second or two. The hardest thing is to start and have any faith that it will work. Sometimes it was so hard I would think ' oh go for it ...thinking mull away' it was impossible to resist. But those fleeting moments of freedom would be the success I would build on. I still take a half dose of paxil (not sure what the equivalent dosage is as paxil is called something different here in Aus) I have no idea if its now just a placebo dose but I suspect not. I don't think I could have done this without meds.

I really get how hard it is. How desperately it seems one has to think ones way out. How weird and wacky you feel. I can still feel a bit wacky at times but I know it will pass. If you are wanting never to feel strange again it simply isn't going to happen. If you are looking never to have a weird thought again it ain't going to happen. Its being able to have whatever weird thought /feeling occur and not engage in a dialogue with yourself about it.
Love Deb
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
For me it was the only way out. Your post reminded me of a way I used to think about 'it'
A way I thought of resisting the urge to think ones way out was to use the analogy that if you had a scab over a wound and you kept on picking it, it would never get better.
You could in theory keep a sore going forever if you kept a constant picking up. No matter how itchy, irritating, sore it is you have to resist picking at it. We know in the end that's what we have to do and that's how it heals.
There have been times as Ive said before that I would be back sucked into DP land again. For me it is always secondary to anxiety and depression. But once the DP hits it seems this is me gone this time.
But each time and Ive had a few relapses over the years the way out is always the same. Takes time as Janine says. My last relapse was 3 years ago and it took me 12 months to get to the point where if I get that DP kind of feeling thinking, I can just let the urge go in a few seconds. It still tricks me for a second or two. The hardest thing is to start and have any faith that it will work. Sometimes it was so hard I would think ' oh go for it ...thinking mull away' it was impossible to resist. But those fleeting moments of freedom would be the success I would build on. I still take a half dose of paxil (not sure what the equivalent dosage is as paxil is called something different here in Aus) I have no idea if its now just a placebo dose but I suspect not. I don't think I could have done this without meds.

I really get how hard it is. How desperately it seems one has to think ones way out. How weird and wacky you feel. I can still feel a bit wacky at times but I know it will pass. If you are wanting never to feel strange again it simply isn't going to happen. If you are looking never to have a weird thought again it ain't going to happen. Its being able to have whatever weird thought /feeling occur and not engage in a dialogue with yourself about it.
Love Deb
 

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its such a catch-22. janine/board, i 1000% believe you are correct. focus outward and you will destroy dp.

its like trying to read an eye chart correctly with drunk goggles on. the ability to focus is just what i don't have. FRUSTRATION!

i want to participate in my life, try to produce things, interact with people...so i can have something to flip over to when my brain starts to watch itself, so i can say " hey brain, sorry but ive got other things to think about"...but i cant rebuild because the glove fits so well, so to speak. my brain slides into automation before i can replace the thought.

blah, bad night.. thought-provoking post as always janine.

cognitive-behavioral therapy is the only thing i can think of to help break this cycle. re-train the brain.

blake
 

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its such a catch-22. janine/board, i 1000% believe you are correct. focus outward and you will destroy dp.

its like trying to read an eye chart correctly with drunk goggles on. the ability to focus is just what i don't have. FRUSTRATION!

i want to participate in my life, try to produce things, interact with people...so i can have something to flip over to when my brain starts to watch itself, so i can say " hey brain, sorry but ive got other things to think about"...but i cant rebuild because the glove fits so well, so to speak. my brain slides into automation before i can replace the thought.

blah, bad night.. thought-provoking post as always janine.

cognitive-behavioral therapy is the only thing i can think of to help break this cycle. re-train the brain.

blake
 
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