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What the hell? Is Tom serious? He was certainly the 'jerk' this time, with all that 'I know what I'm talking about' crap. I'm gonna' go squirt him again.
 

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Interesting re: this. I read that Tom Cruise as a child was diagnosed with ADD or dyslexia or some learning disorder and his mother was told that Ritalin might help. His mother was very much against the idea and Tom grew out of whatever the learning problem was.

This could be the basis of his anti-psychiatry stance which is clearly embodied in Scientology. Man oh man is that a weird religion.. yes it is a religion.

It's fine if it works for him, but he is just as evangelical about Scientology as any Fundamentalist is about whatever religion. Pretty scary.

Tom does have a personal bone to pick.

I find it truly irritating that he is monopolizing the news these days, as though nothing else is going on in the world.

Yawn.

I am interested in seeing "War of the Worlds" mainly to see Tim Robbins and Dakota Fanning, and to sit in an air conditioned theater. It's brutal here. My airconditioning bill will be $300 if it's a dime.

Sigh.

Tom has a chip on his shoulder, I suppose as we all do, but he is truly irritating these days. I don't understand how he plans to convert Katie Holms to Scientology when Nicole Kidman was so resistant. Isn't Katie Holms sp? a Christian if not a Catholic. Same as Kidman?

Tom is an a mission, that's for certain.

D
 

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What is scientology? I understand that it is some sort of religion but that is all I know about it.
 

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Oh a mission! Thank you rainboteers, I'm languishing in the heat.

I'll find a link. It was established by a lunatic by the name of L.Ron Hubbard who wrote the book "Dianetics". It has a lot of sane things in it -- self reliance, strengthening the self -- but it is also nuts, has things to do with getting rid of "thetans" -- little beings in your brain or something.

It's really science fiction.

I don't have all the details, but there was a Scientology reading room on every corner in L.A. It's hip for the stars as is Kaballah.

Let me do a quick search on it as I'm interested myself....
 

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OK, can't say a lot about the details, just that I always found it "odd", thought of it as a "cult." Here are the basics... gotta read more myself before I say something awful....

General Info

The Church of Scientology was founded by Lafayette Ronald Hubbard
(1911-1986). He was a very successful author, having published
hundreds of novels, novelettes and short stories; most dealt with
science fiction.

In 1950, his book "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health"
was published; it has since sold over 20 million copies worldwide.
In 1951, Hubbard formed the religious philosophy of Scientology.

The Founding Church of Scientology was opened in Washington, DC
during 1955.

Like many new religious movements, Scientology has been attacked by
the Anti-Cult Movement. These criticisms appear to have reached
their peak in the 1990s, and are now in decline.

Official Website

http://www.scientology.org

Sorry, fixed the link now, I hope

I'm going to read this. I just remember being lured into the
Scientology center in Hollywood and being freaked out. As I
understand it, it is recognized as a religion, tax exempt status
and all that.

I just recall that L.Ron Hubbard was a little ... nuts. But hey,
what do I know? LOL. And who am I to say. It's just so
interesting that this is as evangelical as the best of the
fundamentalist religions, but more specifically very
anti-psychiatry. It pisses me off that Tom Cruise would have the
gall to tell Brooke Shields she shouldn't have taken Paxil for her
post-partum depression.

Lordy, leave the woman alone!

I find this as curious as Mormonism. It is such a "modern" religion. But like any religion it has good intentions, a desire to bring people together, to "empower" the individual. I can't say it's spiritual - L. Ron Hubbard isn't a deity ... it's more about how one conducts one's life, one's attitude -- that pearly white Tom Cruise attitude...

I think...
Gotta read the site.
But I was always sus about this. I recall trying to read Dianetics about 20 years ago and couldn't get through the first chapter. Can't make a comment until I have another look-see
 

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Well, as I see already, the site is a tad vague on what Scientology offers. I do recall when you go into one of these reading rooms you get a "personality test" that's mentioned. You get analyzed -- your strong points, weak points. Man, Scientology has an answer for everything.

They also like to charge MONEY. Celebrities have money. Years back, I recall that the Church of Scientology was accused of getting a lot of money out of celebrities by getting to know intimate details of their lives, or personal struggles -- drug addiction, being gay, etc. They would "blackmail" the person by saying, "We won't reveal this to the press if you go to 'another level' of therapy' which will cost X-thousands of dollars." I don't know if that is true or not.

This is where a lot of rumors got started that John Travolta was gay. He and his wife are members of the Church of Scientology.

But this is interesting, the "E Meter", I vaguely remember this... this sounds odd. I really should have a look at Dianetics again, but it's really.... weird. Something about the negative energy in your mind being caused by little "thetans" ... little "creatures" in your head. No I did not make this up. But I see the site doesn't mentioned "thetans" off the bat.


"The E-Meter? is a tool a Scientology auditor uses to see a thought.
It operates below the level of a person?s awareness. It can zero in
on the thoughts and decisions a person makes in life, and doesn?t
remember, but which later stop him from having a happy and
successful life. Fact is, if a person knew exactly what was causing
a problem, it wouldn?t be a problem.
Come in for a demonstration of the E-meter to see how it works.
Call or email us for an appointment.
:shock:

I am broiling. I HATE summer. I really do.
 

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Well, this is interesting, but a tad odd to say the least. One would indeed have to be "audited" and I nearly was in ol' Hollywood, LOL, to understand all of this.

There's a lot of "secret" "esoteric" stuff to Scientology. Plug in "thetan" into Google and you'll find a lot of anti-cult satire about Scientology.

Here's just a sample ... this is the weird stuff about Scientology... and if there are any Scientologists here I apologize, please elaborate if any of this is trash....

Too much to learn in one night, but some of this is coming back to me, God help me ... :shock:

Now this is from a Christian group, "The Watchman", debunking many "cults"....

"L. Ron Hubbard, founder of the Church of Scientology, first gained
notoriety in the minds of Americans as the author of numerous
science fiction novels.

He would later use his skills to tightly weave the web of science
fiction and religion. His theology, which today is accepted by
millions, eventually leads to tales of preincarnate souls trapped
in ice cubes from the planet Mars.

"One preclear (student of Scientology) said that this thetan
(somewhat similar to `soul' or `spirit') had inhabited the body of
a doll on the planet Mars 469,476,600 years ago.
"Martians seized the doll and took it to a temple, where it was
zapped by a bishop's gun while the congregation chanted `God is
Love.'

"The thetan was then put into an ice cube, placed aboard a flying
saucer, and dropped off at Planet ZX 432, where it was given a
robot body, then put to work unloading flying saucers.

"Being a bit unruly, it zapped another robot to death and was
shipped off in a flying saucer to be punished. But the flying
saucer exploded, and the thetan fell into space" (story as
reprinted in Kingdom of the Cults, Dr. Walter Martin, p. 346, 985
ed.).

While this may be where the theology of the Church of Scientology
eventually leads, it is not explained to the initiate in these
precise words. Rather, it is touted to the world as the cure for
all of man's problems and a way to gain every desire.


The Watchman Fellowship library contains several hundred pieces of
material from the Church of Scientology. One explains: "Today,
Scientology philosophy provides the tools and technology to solve
this puzzle and frees one from the unwanted conditions and
situations in life.

"There has never before been such a technology to help man help
himself towards greater happiness.

"It provides exact principles and a practical technology for
improving one's confidence, intelligence, abilities and skills...
awareness, health and success in life.

"Scientology gives the only answers and solutions to the age-old
questions of why people have trouble facing up to situations; why
they have difficulty communicating with others; the causes of
conflicts; and the solutions to why people don't use all the
abilities and potentials they have.


"Scientology is a religion by its basic tenets.

"All denominations are welcome in Scientology. The common
denominator of all religion is the human spirit and Scientology can
attain the long sought religious goal of knowing one's potential"
(Scientology: What Is It? p. 1, 1990 ed.).

While the claims are appealing, it is not until the basic theology
is examined that potential students begin to realize that reaching
these goals is to become a never-ending trek."


Dreamer's unsolicited comment:
I DID NOT MAKE THIS UP. This is what I understand Scientology to be about. Answers for everything, that take a lifetime and a lot of money to find. And we all have these little "beings" in ourselves that must be exorcised.... oh I've gotten myself into another hole.


Nite 8)

Time for bed.
 

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I was doing some reading myself and found something where they think that Jesus and God are aliens! Not sure I understood it right, surely I didn't. I really try not to be judgemental about religion and such, but cults are different. ANY religious group that proclaims to have all the answers for EVERYONE really does scare me, people will really do some awful things trying to be "saved." The "thetans" thing really creeps me out :shock: , that is just as absurd as demon possession! I had no idea, I thought scientology had to do with science lol.
 

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Looks like we posted around the same time and you found the alien stuff as well. Seriously it has to be a joke. I don't even know what to say, just freakin scary :shock: .
 

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Rainboteers,
What I don't understand is how this became accepted as a legitimate religion, in other words recognized by the government as a tax-exempt "Church".

I also don't understand how people who follow through with this don't have a doubt or two about the Martian theory. As it says, someone first starting in Scientology -- it's like a step-wise program of "empowerment" -- isn't informed about the thetans/aliens.

Again, I'll have to try to read "Diantectics" again -- it initially sounds like yet another "self-help" type thing.

I also don't have a judgement about Sprituality or religions -- I'm a fan of Buddhism (a religion w/out a deity), and I have no problem with my Christian or Jewish friends, etc.

This has been endlessly dubbed a "cult". THAT I have problems with.

And see it gains credibility when it is represented by celebrities.

What is interesting is on the Scientology website, if you search for "thetan" there, nothing comes up.

And again, apologies to anyone who IS a member of Scientology. Please shed some light on this if you can.
Best,
D
 

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I might be being naive, and I am of no organized religion, but isn't 'The Church of...' or the words 'religion' denote somekind of worship to a higher being etc? It's hardly a religion. Though cults/fads/religions these days seem to merge into the same thing.

On the surface it seems like common sense. Until you read the stuff about aliens and thetans :roll:
 

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"Religion" simply means a set of beliefs, a philosophy. Buddhism is considered a religion full of many philosophies on life, and a set of rules to lead a better life, but it has no deity. Communism is also a religion.

A religion can be Spiritual, and/or can have a Deity.

One can be religios without believing in a Deity, on can be moral without having a religion, one can be spiritual without having a religion.

I finally learned this but a few years ago! I'm 46. I was raised by an atheist, but consider myself agnostic. Until I really looked into "Religion" and "Spirituality" and "Theism" did I learn the difference.

Think of the saying, "Sam gets up every morning and religiously puts on his right sock, then his left sock, gets dressed under 5 minutes, eats toast and drives to work on Interstate 12."

Religion merely means a set of philosophies. Nazism would be considered a religion I believe. I know Communisim, despite the comment "Religion is the opium of the people" is considered a religion.

I hope this makes sense. It only made sense to me after reading several books on the topic.

Best
D
 

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Forgot to say, "Atheism" is in a sense a religion. It is ANTI-DEITY.

I'm not certain where the definition CAN'T be used for a set of beliefs.

But it has to have a philosophy, and some guide for living a "good life" a "more productive life", etc.

Some I suppose believe that Psychiatry/Psychology/Psychoanalysis are "religions." My guess is that Tom Cruise would say as much. "False beliefs, false religions."

It gets dicey as to how one defines these things.
 

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Man I love researching things....

I plugged in "religion defined" into Google. There is quite a debate on the subject.

One must remember that a religion does not have to have a Deity, or necessarily a spiritual connection.

RELIGION DEFINED

Q: What does the word religion mean?

A: Definitions below.

1. Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary says: "a cause,
principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith"
(personal or institutional which can include or not include a
supernatural concept).


2. Religion is a matter of opinion. The First Amendment's religion
clauses include protection of personal belief and restrict ("no
law") the power of government respecting personal opinion--in
contrast to action. In America, opinion (religious or political) is
not to be established by law--religion is not to be established by
law.

3. Religion is whatever it is in life for which a person really
lives, and all that he or she does in regard to that for which he
or she really lives is worship.


4. Religion is whatever the Supreme Court for the United States of
America says it is.

5. America's real religion is democracy (its foremost export to the
rest of the world)--"the social and political expression of the
religious principle that all men are brothers and mankind a family"
(A. Powell Davies).

6. James Madison's definitions of an "establishment" of religion
include: the use of tax money for support of teachers of the
Christian religion, the donation of a piece of federal land to a
Baptist Church, congressional chaplains (read Madison's essays
"Memorial and Remonstrance" and "Monopolies, Perpetuities,
Corporations, Ecclesiastical Endowments"--printed in the book
America's Real Religion --and the essays "Madison's Veto Messages,"
"Ecclesiastical Encroachments," and "Establishments of Religion"

Simply Google "religion defined" and you'll see how difficult it is to define
 

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I get it now... Thank you for the info! I was a bit naive :oops:

It seems to me that Tom Cruise is against psychiatry, ie the fact that psychological disorders may have a basis in genetics or biology and that drugs may help which enrages me, because those with first hand experience know that drugs can change your quality of life.

If I had to have a religion, it would probably be 'psychology' and I can see where he's coming from - I don't think we should rely on drugs and I believe therapy can be very powerful, but God the guy is so up on his high horse and I bet he's lucky enough to never have to find out just how much a pill can change the quality of your life. Until you can find a 'better' way, why the hell not? It's a personal choice.

He claims he 'knows' but in my mind how can you, without first hand experience or seeing someone close to you go through it. He's just spouting shite he's been indoctrinated with.

Of course, this is pure speculation, he may well have first hand knowledge and disclaimer, discalimer disclaimer.

I actually really like Tom Cruise. Especially in 'Risky Business'.... :twisted:
 
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It's also a heirarchy within the group - that is the key to understanding the "religion" concept. Modeled after the esoteric High Magic societies, the Scientologist doesn't really have access to the "high knowledge" until/unless they reach very high levels within the group. Down on the lowest mass level, it's yes, full of common sense for how to live well. Higher up, one learns about the Thetans and some of the secrets to the origin of life on earth. Higher still, the person learns the mission for mankind and what must be done, etc. in order to better the planet and the quality of life. Higher still (and rumor has it that both Travolta and Cruise are quite high up in the ranks) one learns additional "truths' reserved for only the most psychologically sound (things that the rest of the mere mortals could be driven mad by)

It's based on some of the old gnostic principles, some of the old High Magic tenets, some of the highest order Freemason beliefs, many of the New Age and 1970's EST principles and some of the European and Nordic groups of ritual magic. It's not a group to be taken lightly.

LIke any religion, the problem lies not in what anyone chooses to believe, but that organized groups always (at the heart of their system) believe that if they do not STOP or CHANGE the way OTHER people are living and thinking, then it bodes ill for mankind in general.

Tolerance is a lofty concept that has very little actual room in the world of religion. If you really dig, you'll soon discover that somewhere in there, usually at the highest ranks, there is a core belief that others cannot be left alone to their "incorrect" ways. There is a core belief that it is necessary to control other people in order to do "God's will" or to bring about the greatest good for the planet.

That is also true of the most intense of the New Age groups. They truly believe that the human race itself must be "enlightened" and moved forward as a group in order for the next phase of existence to be reached. THAT is where I walk out. That is where they are telling me that MY beliefs or lack thereof, are affecting their ability to progress. And that's where it all gets dangerous.

And that's where your religion steps on MY foot, which is why I tend to not enjoy them, grin.
 

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Yup, there are certain hierarchies to cults, (I was once a member of the Skeptic's Society in California), as Janine says, and again one must move up the ladder very slowly to learn the true "esoteric" "secret" knowledge.
And I agree that Cruise is up there, but he had to pay a fortune to get that high, and he HAS a fortune.

I would say I'm a member of the cult of Ramachandran 8) but I suppose the difference is:

And some of this is the definition of a cult
1. One must give money and a great deal of time to be a part of the group
2. One is required to abandon ones former life, or become separated from ones family
3. One is threatened for attempting to leave the group
4. One isn't allowed to question the tenets of the cult

It IS difficult to understand religion vs. cult, not to mention just defining religion. Now I need to look up cult, because all of THIS is vague. Per "The Watchman" there are thousands of cults.

But it is a way of living one's life. Based upon the tenets of the religion one has latched onto.

Hell, now I have to look up "cult" LOL.

Well wasn't that dude who made everyone drink poisoned Koolaide ... Jim Jones! ... he led a cult, and they were waiting for spaceships to take them away. David Koresh as well.

On and on and on and on..........
 
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