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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Today I'm feeling a bit edgy and I couldn't find why and so I started journaling and I found what triggered me but still no don't see how exactly it triggered me and what to do next. Thing is back then in school I was always labeled as a below average student and just relatively recently I learned that "tunning out" at class is a not uncommon symptom of DP, so I feel bad about how I went through my academic life. So every now and then I think that kids these days have it way easier in school with many internet educational tools; the other day for example I was watching how my nephew was getting instant help from this geometry tutor service app which highly contrasts with my time back in high school, something I surely didn't have back then when I was in high school. But then I see on YouTube that is full of 'real', 'working' perpetual motion machines video tutorials, something that even I know is impossible and the uploader is either plain trolling or just uploading said content just for monetization. Unfortunately too many people believe them! So someone at work last week was saying how we basically could have infinite 100% free renewable energy with "simple" tricks and when I explained why it can never work basically his defense was that I am ignorant obviously because he'd seen it working on YouTube many times in various videos!

Anyways, don't know where to go from here I guess, maybe the answer is simpler than I think but right now I can't see it although I feel better for writing it down.
 

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Today I'm feeling a bit edgy and I couldn't find why and so I started journaling and I found what triggered me but still no don't see how exactly it triggered me and what to do next. Thing is back then in school I was always labeled as a below average student and just relatively recently I learned that "tunning out" at class is a not uncommon symptom of DP, so I feel bad about how I went through my academic life. So every now and then I think that kids these days have it way easier in school with many internet educational tools, something I surely didn't have back then when I was in high school. But then I see on YouTube that is full of 'real', 'working' perpetual motion machines video tutorials, something that even I know is impossible and the uploader is either plain trolling or just uploading said content just for monetization. Unfortunately too many people believe them! So someone at work last week was saying how we basically could have infinite 100% free renewable energy with "simple" tricks and when I explained why it can never work basically his defense was that I am ignorant obviously because he'd seen it working on YouTube many times in various videos!

Anyways, don't know where to go from here I guess, maybe the answer is simpler than I think but right now I can't see it although I feel better for writing it down.
Oh this is a huge rabbit hole for me. I am not so triggered by perpetual motion machines, perhaps because I regard them as too ridiculous for that idea to spread dangerously or I don't know people who believe in them, but I am quite triggered by other types of pseudo-science, typically a lot of alternative medicine, new age stuff, quantum pseudo-science, that are more wide spread around me. I am also triggered by pseudo-science gurus that spread literally anti-scientific things making people believe that science has it wrong, but of course they get it and if only people listened to them the world would be much better. This kind of people typically rally people who felt humiliated in math class and want to get revenge over their teachers by knowing better than them and owning the "science dogma", like the "student vs teacher" fantasy. One guy like this in france was exposed a few years ago. He was all over the place on TV and was spreading ridiculous BS everywhere and was a manipulator, and was eventually exposed for having faked his resume. Journalists kept inviting him because they didn't think it was important to check his background nor to ask "other" experts in the fields he was talking about. He was saying that scientists have a closed mind because they never thought of imitating nature. He said for example that there is some plankton in the sea that produces silicon nanoparticles and so scientists should have imitated nature instead of being arrogant and spending so much time trying to make microprocessors on their own because plankton was doing it long before them. It's an example that speaks to me because I have worked in this field, and really, that comparison is as ridiculous as saying that "rocks roll when we put them on a hill's side, so it's the same as a formula one car, and people who build formula one cars are stupid because they should have imitated rocks who knew how to do it long before them". Really when you know about microelectronics it's exactly as stupid as that, I am not kidding, and this guy was all over the place on TV, and I had a friend who was a fan of his. This guru was saying that our education system is broken (it might be, but well...) and that diplomas a worthless because they are produced by a closed-minded system, but he, to the contrary, was open minded, and if only people read his books and bla bla bla. But his whole thing was a hoax, he was passing as an expert when he had literally nothing. That kind of thing is so triggering for me..... (as you can see).
So I don't know any good solution for that problem specifically, but what brings me comfort is to not listen to these people too much, hang around on skeptic networks, the calm ones if I wanted to learn things about these people and understand how we function and how they are not so different from me in some way, and the rough ones if I need to hear someone say that they are just stupid and ridiculous, just to calm my nerves. From my experience, hanging around people like this can make me feel powerless and can be draining, but talking about these subjects with people who understand is relieving. So avoiding the topics is sometimes better. Also, I have a problem where when I am confronted with something like this, either I ignore the problem if I don't want to argue with a friend for example, and I would act like it's all ok but I am often boiling inside, or I engage in a debate that is sometimes (but not always) not so fruitful. But the other option I am trying to get used to now is to just say "you know I am not so much into these things" or that "this is a bit of a triggering topic for me" and add that I prefer if we speak about something else. Usually people would want to ask why and still try to debate so I have to insist a bit. But this way I can avoid the debate and still state my position and not look like I validate them.
About perpetual motion machines, if I remember correctly there are also youtube videos of people who make fake perpetual motion videos to trick people only to reveal the trick at the end of the video or in their next video just to show them they should not trust these things and that a video proves nothing.
 

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Oh this is a huge rabbit hole for me. I am not so triggered by perpetual motion machines, perhaps because I regard them as too ridiculous for that idea to spread dangerously or I don't know people who believe in them, but I am quite triggered by other types of pseudo-science, typically a lot of alternative medicine, new age stuff, quantum pseudo-science, that are more wide spread around me. I am also triggered by pseudo-science gurus that spread literally anti-scientific things making people believe that science has it wrong, but of course they get it and if only people listened to them the world would be much better. This kind of people typically rally people who felt humiliated in math class and want to get revenge over their teachers by knowing better than them and owning the "science dogma", like the "student vs teacher" fantasy. One guy like this in france was exposed a few years ago. He was all over the place on TV and was spreading ridiculous BS everywhere and was a manipulator, and was eventually exposed for having faked his resume. Journalists kept inviting him because they didn't think it was important to check his background nor to ask "other" experts in the fields he was talking about. He was saying that scientists have a closed mind because they never thought of imitating nature. He said for example that there is some plankton in the sea that produces silicon nanoparticles and so scientists should have imitated nature instead of being arrogant and spending so much time trying to make microprocessors on their own because plankton was doing it long before them. It's an example that speaks to me because I have worked in this field, and really, that comparison is as ridiculous as saying that "rocks roll when we put them on a hill's side, so it's the same as a formula one car, and people who build formula one cars are stupid because they should have imitated rocks who knew how to do it long before them". Really when you know about microelectronics it's exactly as stupid as that, I am not kidding, and this guy was all over the place on TV, and I had a friend who was a fan of his. This guru was saying that our education system is broken (it might be, but well...) and that diplomas a worthless because they are produced by a closed-minded system, but he, to the contrary, was open minded, and if only people read his books and bla bla bla. But his whole thing was a hoax, he was passing as an expert when he had literally nothing. That kind of thing is so triggering for me..... (as you can see).
So I don't know any good solution for that problem specifically, but what brings me comfort is to not listen to these people too much, hang around on skeptic networks, the calm ones if I wanted to learn things about these people and understand how we function and how they are not so different from me in some way, and the rough ones if I need to hear someone say that they are just stupid and ridiculous, just to calm my nerves. From my experience, hanging around people like this can make me feel powerless and can be draining, but talking about these subjects with people who understand is relieving. So avoiding the topics is sometimes better. Also, I have a problem where when I am confronted with something like this, either I ignore the problem if I don't want to argue with a friend for example, and I would act like it's all ok but I am often boiling inside, or I engage in a debate that is sometimes (but not always) not so fruitful. But the other option I am trying to get used to now is to just say "you know I am not so much into these things" or that "this is a bit of a triggering topic for me" and add that I prefer if we speak about something else. Usually people would want to ask why and still try to debate so I have to insist a bit. But this way I can avoid the debate and still state my position and not look like I validate them.
About perpetual motion machines, if I remember correctly there are also youtube videos of people who make fake perpetual motion videos to trick people only to reveal the trick at the end of the video or in their next video just to show them they should not trust these things and that a video proves nothing.
the last time i trusted in science was in 2020 when i started lexapro. until they recently found out that serotonin is not responsible for depression. and funny thing is, i dont believe this either, because they could say after 2 years „ah we now figured out that serotonin plays indeed a role in depression“.

i posted once about this and you didnt reply, which im fine with. there are many things that science can be utilizied for finding answer and it works well but you need to admit, on some areas science has severe limitations.

einstein disproved a theory of newton what was 300 years known for right. i know that „theories“ doesnt work like that, but what is your evidence that science will not say after 200 years „ow yeah dp is enlightment and people just react bad to it because they dont dare to live with it“ or something like „dp happens for above average intelligent people because they seek for everything an answer, and they lose their automatic mechanisms in their brain what makes their perception „real“. what then? do you have any evidence that science wont figure out this in future?

there, you have an instance for a big limitation. i will repeat this, science is good for chemistry and physics, but for instance at medicine it doesnt fit that good, although they developed many treatments for physical diseases and illnesses. you can give someone the same medication for the same disease while one of them can recover and the other dies of the side effects. maths is also a very good area where science works well. anyways just my two cents
 
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Oh this is a huge rabbit hole for me. I am not so triggered by perpetual motion machines, perhaps because I regard them as too ridiculous for that idea to spread dangerously or I don't know people who believe in them, but I am quite triggered by other types of pseudo-science, typically a lot of alternative medicine, new age stuff, quantum pseudo-science, that are more wide spread around me. I am also triggered by pseudo-science gurus that spread literally anti-scientific things making people believe that science has it wrong, but of course they get it and if only people listened to them the world would be much better. This kind of people typically rally people who felt humiliated in math class and want to get revenge over their teachers by knowing better than them and owning the "science dogma", like the "student vs teacher" fantasy. One guy like this in france was exposed a few years ago. He was all over the place on TV and was spreading ridiculous BS everywhere and was a manipulator, and was eventually exposed for having faked his resume. Journalists kept inviting him because they didn't think it was important to check his background nor to ask "other" experts in the fields he was talking about. He was saying that scientists have a closed mind because they never thought of imitating nature. He said for example that there is some plankton in the sea that produces silicon nanoparticles and so scientists should have imitated nature instead of being arrogant and spending so much time trying to make microprocessors on their own because plankton was doing it long before them. It's an example that speaks to me because I have worked in this field, and really, that comparison is as ridiculous as saying that "rocks roll when we put them on a hill's side, so it's the same as a formula one car, and people who build formula one cars are stupid because they should have imitated rocks who knew how to do it long before them". Really when you know about microelectronics it's exactly as stupid as that, I am not kidding, and this guy was all over the place on TV, and I had a friend who was a fan of his. This guru was saying that our education system is broken (it might be, but well...) and that diplomas a worthless because they are produced by a closed-minded system, but he, to the contrary, was open minded, and if only people read his books and bla bla bla. But his whole thing was a hoax, he was passing as an expert when he had literally nothing. That kind of thing is so triggering for me..... (as you can see).
So I don't know any good solution for that problem specifically, but what brings me comfort is to not listen to these people too much, hang around on skeptic networks, the calm ones if I wanted to learn things about these people and understand how we function and how they are not so different from me in some way, and the rough ones if I need to hear someone say that they are just stupid and ridiculous, just to calm my nerves. From my experience, hanging around people like this can make me feel powerless and can be draining, but talking about these subjects with people who understand is relieving. So avoiding the topics is sometimes better. Also, I have a problem where when I am confronted with something like this, either I ignore the problem if I don't want to argue with a friend for example, and I would act like it's all ok but I am often boiling inside, or I engage in a debate that is sometimes (but not always) not so fruitful. But the other option I am trying to get used to now is to just say "you know I am not so much into these things" or that "this is a bit of a triggering topic for me" and add that I prefer if we speak about something else. Usually people would want to ask why and still try to debate so I have to insist a bit. But this way I can avoid the debate and still state my position and not look like I validate them.
About perpetual motion machines, if I remember correctly there are also youtube videos of people who make fake perpetual motion videos to trick people only to reveal the trick at the end of the video or in their next video just to show them they should not trust these things and that a video proves nothing.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Awesome inside info, made me feel so much better. I will definitely use "you know I am not so much into these things" or "this is a bit of a triggering topic for me" but I think it fits better to me the former. (y)
 

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the last time i trusted in science was in 2020 when i started lexapro. until they recently found out that serotonin is not responsible for depression. and funny thing is, i dont believe this either, because they could say after 2 years „ah we now figured out that serotonin plays indeed a role in depression“.

i posted once about this and you didnt reply, which im fine with. there are many things that science can be utilizied for finding answer and it works well but you need to admit, on some areas science has severe limitations.

einstein disproved a theory of newton what was 300 years known for right. i know that „theories“ doesnt work like that, but what is your evidence that science will not say after 200 years „ow yeah dp is enlightment and people just react bad to it because they dont dare to live with it“ or something like „dp happens for above average intelligent people because they seek for everything an answer, and they lose their automatic mechanisms in their brain what makes their perception „real“. what then? do you have any evidence that science wont figure out this in future?

there, you have an instance for a big limitation. i will repeat this, science is good for chemistry and physics, but for instance at medicine it doesnt fit that good, although they developed many treatments for physical diseases and illnesses. you can give someone the same medication for the same disease while one of them can recover and the other dies of the side effects. maths is also a very good area where science works well. anyways just my two cents
Yes, I do remember your other post, I read it carefully but I had so much to say that I didn’t want to sidetrack too much. I already tend to write essays on small topics and this one can be a big one. So I thought I could reply when I was ready for a “short” answer, or eventually let go and leave our opinions as they are. Now what I just did is that I wrote a huge post, and now I am not sure I want to post it. So I will write an extremely summarized version or post it later if you really want to read 2000 details on why I think what I think.
Basically, I want to say that we don't know what we don't know. We can never know for sure if something will not be disproven later on. So we can never say that something is absolutely impossible. But just because nothing can be proven absolutely impossible doesn't mean that everything is equally likely. Basically, you can't say something is possible unless proven otherwise. You can't say for example that fantastic animal "X" exists unless proven otherwise. It's the other way around. We can say what is the likeliest based on what we know now and if someone wants to say something else is true, it is their duty to bring evidence for their claim. So its not that scientists want to impose a dogma and want to say what is possible or impossible, it's rather that people are waiting for evidence. So maybe people who build perpetual motion machines are right, but they will believe them once they provide evidence.
It was the same with Einstein. He said something that was contrary to what Newton had said, but he didn't just say science was dogmatic and he was free to have his opinion, he just provided good reasons to believe in what he claimed. And when it was proven he was right, nobody said that it proved that science had failed. Because the whole thing is science, finding out what is the likeliest theory based on what we know and observe, and then if later on another theory provides sufficient evidence to show it is better at explaining reality than the previous one, then it is accepted. And if the previous theory is very solid, then the next one better provide very good evidence, but it happens and it happens all the time.
A lot of people who make pseudo-scientific claims see science as a bunch of dogma that tells people who is right and who is wrong without an explanation. But it's not dogma, it's just pointing out the things that are in contradiction with their new theory. It doesn't mean their theory is false, it means that their evidence is not good enough to go against current knowledge. As I said, evidence that is good enough happens all the time. Einstein managed to convince scientists that there exists a thing like space-time and that it can be stretched. I think it shows people are pretty open-minded when given sufficient evidence. But in pseudo-science, some people think scientists want to silence them when they are just reminding them of current knowledge. If they want to disprove conservation of energy with basic mechanics, they can, but they will need a huge amount of evidence, and a lot more than a youtube video, that's all and that's very normal.
 

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And yes, some areas of science are more limited than others, but the principle remains the same. Even if some knowledge is not very solid, if you want to prove it false you need to provide better evidence. Knowledge might not be solid in some parts of live sciences because living things are extremely complex. So if you want to prove these beliefs wrong, you will face the same difficulties with that complexity. But again, it's possible, it happens all the time, but only when sufficient evidence is provided.
 

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ow yeah dp is enlightment and people just react bad to it because they dont dare to live with it
In fact for some spiritual traditions "enlightment" appears to be depersonalization disorder, like for example for the vedic tradition that markets so-called transcendental meditation. I also read some accounts of people who called themselves "enlightened" and they expressed symptoms of depersonalization disorder or other mental illnesses. Of course, this does not necessarily include all religions or spiritual traditions, since there is a lot of disagreement about what "enlightment" is even supposed to be. But what surprises me is that people always seem to believe that "enlightment" is something "good". Religions are responsible for many evils in this world. So wouldn't it be too far fetched that at least some of them want to make people mentally ill? Wouldn't it be natural for people to become upset, if they were duped into severe mental illness with the promise of some kind of heaven?
 
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