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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I would be interested to hear if any of you had tried the same thing with me and what kind of results you have gained. As I'm living in the bushes of North Europe, I hardly have chance to join any legal study of MDMA (Ecstasy) therapy. However I have found this drug beneficial for me even without any official therapy and have gained valuable insights regarding my condition with this method. I have used the drug once a year in the forest wilderness without any company (my boyfriend has been around though) with a question/questions on my mind, which I hope to find an answer during the session. I have found this set and setting most beneficial, as I feel safest when I can decide whether or not I want to talk to someone - also I feel best being in nature far from crowds.

I have thought to do this self-therapy maybe two times a year now, as I feel it helps me to connect with my lost feelings inside. But if any of you have tried the same method, I would be grateful if you would like to share experiences with me...? You're also welcome to send me private message if you'd like to.

Disclaimer: I'm not encouraging any person to take Ecstasy for help, as I have found there have been people in this site, who have started feeling DP because of taking the drug. Also I know people who have become addicted to recreational use of MDMA, so I hope nobody tries this method only because of my post. Anyway, I am still looking for people, who have tried MDMA self-therapy alone or been in official study in order to share experiences.
 

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Well, I've taken 'e' loads of times, and yes - after a while it did cause me to have a panic attack. However, I'd taken it loads of time previously and, to be honest, since, without any problems. I've never experienced such a tremendous sense of well-being and peace on 'e'...it's an incredible experience. However, and it's a big however, as with any psychotropic drugs, the seemingly insightfull thoughts and experiences that you get during the trip are most likely to be dishonest. Just because you think there is truth in them at the time, it's more than likely the next day you realise it for the foolhardy and unrelastic 'insight' it is.

Personally, I think 'e' (good quality e, not the stuff cut with all sorts of filthy shit) is no worse and definately less harmfull than getting pissed. Sure, it's a drug and it's not 'good' for you, but nothing ever is. The problem is that the tabloids and other more supposadly worthy rags are constantly on a crusage against the 'evil' of these drugs. 1 person dies and there's outrage. It's ridiculous. 100000000000% more people die or cause harm with booze than pills, and this is keeping in mind that millions of people take 'e'. Pure MDMA in realistic doses cannot kill you, fact, unless you are about as unlucky as someone who dies from eating peanuts or a bee sting.

So, while I don't encourage for 'enlightenment' purposes, I don't discourage it's occassional use for those of us who are mentally secure enough to handle the trip. It's not a 'head-fuck' like LSD or Mushrooms. I definately wouldn't encourage it for people with DR/DP though, because the results - as with everything again, could be unpredictable. But still, if all hope is lost....it may give you temporary respite, as all that it is doing it flooding your brain with huges amounts naturally occouring seretonin...but it's the come-down (three days later, when your brain is running on empty) that could exaccerbate your initial problems. I know people who swear that cocaine relieves their symptoms..

You pay your money and you make your choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Martinelv said:
However, and it's a big however, as with any psychotropic drugs, the seemingly insightfull thoughts and experiences that you get during the trip are most likely to be dishonest. Just because you think there is truth in them at the time, it's more than likely the next day you realise it for the foolhardy and unrelastic 'insight' it is.
Oh, for me the insights I have gained during MDMA trips have always been valuable - it seems MDMA opens my feelings to ponder things, also painful ones, more deeply. In my everyday life without drugs I am always such numb I hardly could find the kind of answers for the questions I have asked myself during MDMA sessions. :)

Martinelv said:
But still, if all hope is lost....it may give you temporary respite, as all that it is doing it flooding your brain with huges amounts naturally occouring seretonin...but it's the come-down (three days later, when your brain is running on empty) that could exaccerbate your initial problems. I know people who swear that cocaine relieves their symptoms..
I think MDMA has more potential than temporary relief. For example alcohol or cannabis never have given me any useful insights considering my condition - those drugs are purely recreational for me. But MDMA has helped me see better what I feel inside - the reason why I trust the Ecstasy-induced insights is that also after the trip they sound sensible for me. And for some reason I never have felt any depression after MDMA trip, though I know some people experience it. But I realise people are different, so what works for me might not work for someone else.
 

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Extasy use, even occaisionally, damages the serotogenic system. Ive read numerous scientific studies that claim that after just one pill there are severe(probably permanent) brain changes. Follow up has shown this changes are still evident 6 years later which suggest structural brain damage. For the sake of your brain, Id forget about this "therapy"

Joe
 

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That's true Joe, at least they think so, but as a 'drug' it is far less 'evil' than say - booze, or cigarettes, whatever way you want to look at it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
dakotajo said:
Extasy use, even occaisionally, damages the serotogenic system. Ive read numerous scientific studies that claim that after just one pill there are severe(probably permanent) brain changes. Follow up has shown this changes are still evident 6 years later which suggest structural brain damage. For the sake of your brain, Id forget about this "therapy"
Well, why do they still use MDMA in official PTSD trauma therapy studies? Rhetorical question... I agree with Martinelv - MDMA is far less harmful for brains than e.g. alcohol. There are many different scientific studies with many different conclusions; I trust the information at maps.org most.
 

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It doesnt suprise me. Why do they still prescribe benzos when they know there are one of the most addictive drugs out there? Why do they prescibe anti-psychotics when they know they do permanent brain damage? There is no logic behind it. Its wrecklessness and they way for these assholes to make more fucking money.
 

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QUOTED FROM MAP.....

"In 1988, the Swiss Federal Office for Public Health granted special permission to several therapists working in private practice to conduct psychotherapy with MDMA. Permission to work with MDMA lasted until the end of 1993, when all psychedelic therapy in Switzerland was forbidden. Since then, researchers at the Psychiatric University Hospital in Z?rich have resumed research with MDMA. MAPS recently granted $6,000 to the Z?rich research team for a PET scan study of MDMA-naive subjects and $10,000 for the publication of papers on EEG, prepulse inhibition, and Ecstasy users."
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I'm not really up on MDMA use in various medical studies, but from MAP it noted that in Switzerand, reasearch w/psychadelics was forbidden in 1993. And it looks like only very limited research has been granted again.

In re: the United States, I believe said research was also forbidden. It was being researched in re: cancer studies as well. Don't quote me, but the FDA has ceased allowing research into psychedelics as well ... some of this harks back to the use of LSD in the 1960s...

MDMA, to the best of my understanding, is a very dangerous drug. I'll have to do some more googling about, but I don't think this is a drug to be messing with, whether someone has DP or not, and whether it is used for recreational purposes or not. It has a profoundly damaging effect on serotonin transmission, as someone noted.

Best,
D
I'll try to find some more current info.
But I know MDMA is dangerous stuff :shock:
 

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Drug Enforcement Agency
http://www.dea.gov

DEA Congressional Testimony
September 19, 2002


Statement of
Asa Hutchinson
Administrator
Drug Enforcement Administration
Before the
House Government Reform Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy,
and Human Resources

"Executive Summary

MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine), commonly referred to as
ecstasy, is a deceptively dangerous club drug that poses an immense
threat to America's youth. Frequently distributed at "Rave" venues
whose advertising leaflets boast of security and alcohol free
environments, MDMA continues to be extremely popular among middle-class adolescents and young adults. There have been numerous instances of overdoses and deaths attributed to the use of MDMA and other club
drugs.


To address the threat of MDMA, the Drug Enforcement Administration
(DEA) has initiated multiple innovative programs and generated numerous enforcement successes to combat the threat posed by these trafficking organizations:

DEA coordinates closely with our international counter-parts to target
MDMA trafficking organizations to halt the transshipment of MDMA into
the United States, which prevented the distribution of millions of
dosage units.

DEA continues to target and dismantle major domestic MDMA trafficking
groups and seized 49 MDMA laboratories in the U.S. since 1999.

As the lead U.S. Federal drug law enforcement agency, DEA continues to
collect, analyze, and distribute vital intelligence information
concerning the MDMA trade to state, local, and international law
enforcement entities.

Working in conjunction with associated local, state, federal, and
community groups, DEA advances education and prevention strategies of
MDMA and other club drug abuse.

Chairman Souder, Ranking Member Cummings, distinguished members of the Subcommittee, I am grateful for the opportunity to address the
Subcommittee regarding ecstasy and its effect on our country. The
devastating effects of this drug on America's youth must be confronted,
and the Subcommittee is to be commended for continuing to bring this
most important issue to the forefront. As always, I would like to
personally express my gratitude to the Subcommittee for your unwavering support for the men and women of the Drug Enforcement Administration.

MDMA Overview

MDMA, a Schedule I drug, is the most widely abused club drug in
America. MDMA users experience both hallucinogenic and stimulant
effects which last several hours. Accounts from users describe the drug
as intensifying their senses, particularly the external sense of touch
and an inward feeling of "closeness" or "empathy." They will often
dance with fluorescent light sticks, use Vicks Vapor Rub and other
miscellaneous items to increase stimulation and enhance the drug's
effects.

Abusing MDMA can produce a number of adverse effects including
severe dehydration, exhaustion, nausea, hallucinations, chills, sweating, increase in body temperature, tremors, involuntary teeth
clenching, muscle cramping, and blurred vision. MDMA may also create
after-effects such as anxiety, paranoia, and depression. Recent MDMA
related deaths were associated with core body temperatures of 107 to
109 degrees.


In 1998 a study conducted by researchers at Johns Hopkins Medical
Center and funded by the National Institute of Mental Health revealed
that habitual MDMA abusers suffer long-term neurological damage. The
study indicates that recreational MDMA users may be in danger of
developing permanent brain damage that might manifest itself in the
form of depression, anxiety, memory loss, or neuro-psychiatric
disorder.


In addition, there have been numerous major scientific studies
published in peer reviewed journals which have shown significant
impairments in memory and learning in individuals who have ingested
MDMA. Combined with the knowledge that all of these drugs are
clandestinely produced in unsanitary laboratories which result in
uncontrolled purity, the threat to public health and safety is immense.

The Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) estimates that nationwide
hospital emergency room mentions for MDMA rose sharply from 637 in 1997 to 5,542 in 2001. Caucasian teenagers and young adults have been the primary users of MDMA, and this trend is reflected in the DAWN
emergency room reporting data. In 2001, 77 percent of the 5,542 MDMA
emergency room mentions were attributed to patients age 25 and under."

Etc........ for pages and pages. A PDF on this info froze up my computer, LOL. But check the Drug Enforcement Agency website for MDMA info that is up-to-date.
------------------------------------------------------------

This not-so-glowing report from the DEA, I assume, would have an effect on MDMA research in the US at minimum. I'd have to look into the FDA. The stuff is brutal. If you've seen PET scans of brains on ecstasy you'll run in the other direction. The brain lights up like a Christmas tree.
 

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OK, too tired to do this.

Go to http://www.fda.gov

Food and Drug Administration ... Agency? always forget. Have all the latest low-down on drug activity. I plugged in MDMA, but there are a lot of PDFs to read and I'm goin' blind trying to read them.

Ecstasy MAY have potential POSITIVE benefits that haven't been thoroughly proven ... say, like ketamine, used in surgery, etc. But the bottom line is, as far as I know, you don't want to mess with the stuff, IMHO.

Nite,
D :shock:
 

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Well, you learn something new everyday. To be honest it's worth reading the MAPS website as there are some compelling arguments as to why humans should be used to test the potential beneficial effects of psychedelics. This of course includes marijuana which, as far as I'm concerned, is excellent for pain in cancer patients, etc.

There are no simple answers to things. I'd only say that bottom line, at this stage of the game, I wouldn't want to experiment with psychedelics, and I've never tried one in my life. As I always say, I had an "altered state of consciousness" at the age of 4 or 5, why make it worse? Kept me away from everything. DP/DR was my anti drug. :)

Anyway, interesting. Have a look at the MAPS website. Makes ya' think.

http://www.maps.org

"The Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS)
is a membership-based non-profit research and educational organization.

We assist scientists to design, fund, obtain approval for and report on
studies into the risks and benefits of MDMA, psychedelic drugs and
marijuana.

MAPS' mission is to sponsor scientific research designed to develop
psychedelics and marijuana into FDA-approved prescription medicines,
and to educate the public honestly about the risks and benefits of
these drugs. Read our strategy statement for more information.

We need your support so together we can make a difference. In addition
to general membership donations, MAPS is seeking to raise funds for
specific research projects. These are our funding priorities."

(see website for full details..........)
--------------------------------

And that's all she wrote, for a while, she hopes.
L,
D :shock:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Dreamer - thank you for posting the information. :) In my opinion one possible reason, why many PTSD trauma studies with the use of MDMA have been forbidden in the midst of the study, is that MDMA is labeled as an illegal drug and is also widely used recreationally. It is the current culture and the "war on drugs", which keeps research under strict control or even prohibited.

Dakotajo, almost everything is dangerous here in this world, if one wants to perceive things that way. Currently I'm on antidepressant Remeron (mirtazapin) AND antipsychotic Zyprexa (olanzapine), but I still don't fear brain damage. Some years ago I had acute psychosis - diagnosed borderline - because of PTSD. Indeed without antipsychotic meds I probably would be psychotic still, thinking I'm the center of the universe having special parapsychological skills - and I could not study at all, let alone be responsible for my life. :shock: Nope, some drugs are worth taking the risk, I think. For me they are Remeron, Zyprexa and MDMA.
 

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The late Bill Hicks said something along the lines of : "Governments make drugs illegal because they don't wont our 'eyes wide open' to how severely they are butt fucking us on a daily basis, nor do they want us to realise how puerile our existance is, because then everyone would say 'fuck you', give up their jobs and go and live in a cave and get high."

The only sanctioned drug is religion. Makes you wonder doesn't it. A drug that makes you feel happy, safe, loved, righteous, gives you something to do on Sunday and that everything is going to be alright in the end!. Freedom of religion ? Why not freedom of drugs ? It's nobodies business what we put in our bodies, except ourselves, but we are criminalised for it. Nothing is more personal than your own body. But on the other hand we are positively encouraged to accept all manner of religions...they are even state funded !!!! We go to war because of the state funded, sanctioned drug !!! Please, stop the world, I want to get off !!! Insanity....madness.....

Sure, hard drugs such as crack and heroin fuel crime, but there is a big difference between that and something occassionally taking an 'e' if they want to or taking a toke on a spliff.

Which makes me wonder....if someone ever invented a drug that had absolutely no bad side effects, no brain damage, no addiction potential, no aggression, nothing..about as harmful as drinking a glass of water with a slice of lemon, but it made you feel wonderful for a time - like 'e', would the governments still ban it ? Of course they would, but why ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Martinelv - such a good quote, thanks for it. I just wonder what kind of society this would be, if alcohol was prohibited and MDMA, LSD & psilocybine legal drugs...? :) :roll:
 

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I've thought about that. Imagine if the Hittites accidently discovered MDMA before they brewed their first beer. Fast forward 3000 years to today and alcohol would be Class 'A'. The media would be screaming blue bloody murder about it - it causes brain damage, addiction, aggression, violence, liver damage....yet 'e' would be served in bars where everyone would be blissfully happy, no punch-ups at closing time because everyone would just want to go home and have a nice cup of tea and a quick nap. Sure, the governement might put some gentle warnings on the 'e's, something like - 'Don't take too much, you might get some memory loss, and oh - remember to drink lots of water. Thanks.'

Soma anyone ?
 
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