lets disuss... DRUGS

2867 Views 10 Replies 6 Participants Last post by TDX, Jun 8, 2016

Anna Carly

Discussion Starter · Jun 7, 2016

I can appriciate people will disagree with drug taking after getting DP/DR and thats totally understandable as it is more than likley a step backwards when it comes to recovery and if this is you please refrain from hate commenting! Those who havent managed to shake the habit what are your views on the subject. Personally, i am never touching weed again as i think freaking out while eating edible cannabis in amsterdam had a small part to blame when it omes to my DP/DR. I used to do a lot of coke before i got this, and funny enough doing this gives me such relief it makes me feel alive, in the room and ike i can think clearly and not about my DP, jut connect with people. I have only done it 3 times in the 5 months i have had depersonalisation and have really had difficulty staying away from it but feel proud I have managed to cut down so much. I wonder if this has something to do with DP does anyone know what neurotransmitters coke plays with, dopamine? I read a forum once which said coke and stimulants work on dopamine and adrenaline and that plays a part for some people who may be low in it helping them and treatments like Wellbutrin would benefit them where as people who do well with weed and alcohol have a serotonin problem and SSRIS would help them. I'm really confused as to what neurotransmitters are not behaving in my brain and how I should be addressing this!!! I find when I drink alcohol I feel more detached like my legs are made of jelly and people are monsters and I just feel seriously stoned but the coke seems to sort me out. I have stayed away from MDMA and anything else along those lines for I also read tht could have been the cause of my visual snow and, I know they would definitely not help me. Whats everyones thoughts on this???? Do you have a drug that helps/worsens your DP or anyone know much about the neurotransmitters?

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TDX

· #4 · Jun 8, 2016 (Edited by Moderator)

As for causing it, I'm not so sure. It may be that a history of heavy regular dopaminergic drug use could predispose a person to DP. One of my pet theories is that chronic use of stimulants causes kappa opioid receptor upregulation that might predispose someone to DP -- or perhaps even cause it beyond a certain point.

I wouldn't be too sure about that, as dopaminergics are not really that known to cause depersonalization, like serotonergics, NMDA-Antagonists and kappa-opioid-agonists. Dopaminergics are more linked to psychosis.

(low dopamine in particular but I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that DP sufferers have high levels of PFC dopamine and low levels of dopamine in sub-cortical structures

It's interesting that antipsychotics often make depersonalization worse, but it's probably not so simple, because antipsychotics alone don't cause depersonalization. Maybe it does in combination with another drug that we don't know, just like mCPP. It has been shown that mCPP causes depersonalization in people with mental illness, but not in healthy people. But it does so, if healthy people take a benzodiazepine antagonist before.

It should also be noted, that in the NMDA-Antagonist-Model antipsychotics do not make the depersonalization worse. Because of this I conjectured that Lamotrigine does not work for poeple, who get worse by taking an antipsychotic.

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TDX

· #7 · Jun 8, 2016 (Edited by Moderator)

But chronic use of dopaminergic drugs causes upregulation of kappa receptors, which mediates the properties of dependence and addiction. It seems perfectly reasonable to suggest that heavy long-term use of such drugs would increase vulnerability to DP through a kappa-mediated mechanism. Sure, dopaminergics are linked particularly to acute psychotic episodes but I'm talking about a long-term process with the kappa system.

Yes it's plausible. But the point I want to make: There is, at least to my knowledge, no evidence yet, that this kappa-upregulation, that is taking in addiction, causes depersonalization. It would be a good idea to investigate if former cocaine addicts are more prone to depersonalization.

This may well be part of what happened to me. I was using dopaminergic stimulants everyday for years when I got DP. It was a slow onset, which makes sense in terms of increasing kappa sensitisation. Of course, it could've been related to dopamine downregulation as well but dopaminergic drugs do nothing to alleviate my DP.

Have you increased your Buprenorphine dosage to a high enough? You are taking it for months, there have to be some results.

There're a lot of people in this world who self medicate. For me the question is why do people feel the need to escape their reality? What is it in their lives that they are escaping from? Anything from drinking alcohol, smoking pot, using coke, meth, barbs, heroin, opium, acid, etc etc, to taking mind altering pharmaceuticals, ultimately it all achieves the same thing - detachment from reality. And to me that poses the biggest question of them all - why can't we cope with our own realities?

It's often more about hedonism and thrill seeking, not to escape.

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TDX

· #11 · Jun 8, 2016 (Edited by Moderator)

Something interesting and related: the hallucinogenic properties of 5-HT2A agonists might be glutamate-mediated after all -- specifically by mGlu2 receptors.

I know. Interesting is also that Acetylcystein, which might be a mGlu2-agonist, was able to block the effects of LSD.

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