[andymania]

I am making excellent progress. No more panic and awful fear. However I do occasionally get these quick flash thoughts that last a second and are quite frightening. Example I had this thought when I was in the shower about how crazy it is that I exist. I suddenly felt cold, my heart made several hard beats but then it went away. I did focus outward and didnt obsess about it. But how are you not supposed to go back and wonder and figure that feeling out.? So you guys are saying that these are all awful tricks that the mind is playing? But why do i want to believe it so much and why the hell does it scare me so much??

-Andy

 

[Milan]

know EXACTLY what you mean and I've been wanting to post something about this for a while.

Like you I also have been feeling relatively better the last few weeks but the flash thoughts about existence kills me. It's one of the worst and weirdest states I experience and impossible to describe. For me it's like the spotlight of my awareness, unprovoked, suddenly focuses on the strange concept of existence and consciousness. In that moment I lose all grounding, meaning and understanding of myself and my place in reality. A nanosecond later my DP/DR hits warp speed and I'm consumed with abject terror. It's not like normal fear most experience where there is some basis to it and an ego at the epicentre - this is fear consciousness where you feel that any moment permanent insanity will ensue because the idea of 'it' is too much for our mind to fathom. But somehow the fear of the fear scares you back into a shaky reality and your left wondering - what the f**** was that!

I have noticed a few people over time talk about this experience and one person put if succinctly - ''I had this 'THIS IS IT' feeling". To any one these three words mean nothing but I knew what she was trying to articulate.

I truly understand your compulsion to try to understand, think back, work out the experience but it's futile. You know you shouldn't stare into Medusa's eyes but every fibre in your body want's to. This uncontrollable desire to figure out the experience is the nature of this beast. You think that we NEED to work out this experience to conquer it but how can you when that altered state will only induce more confusion and fear. You want to fathom the unfathomable (God, I sound like Janine - LOL). Trust me I know what it's like and for a long while all I wanted to do was to understand it. It just doesn't work. And from your post you did the right thing, that is to distract yourself away form it.

Why do you want to believe it so much? I'm not sure but don't bother with it. It's more fun living in the reality of the masses than this silly state we get sucked into. If our minds weren't wired in such a way we may be able to explore it more so but we can't and definitely shouldn't.

Why is it scary? Well, why is darkness black? It just is. We therefore should simply avoid the compulsion of trying to relive and understand this thing. I sound like I've mastered this but I haven't and am still trying my best not focus on it. I think in time I'll get less interested in this state and eventually find some peace of mind. It happened before and I waiting for it to happen again.

I hope you found some comfort in my words.

 

[Sojourner]

Well, I found comfort in your words, Milan, because you explained it very well. Lately, I have been having those flashes and sometimes they last a while. I experience it as "anxiety without the physical symptoms." Claire Weekes' words linger in my mind, "Relax, accept, float." Soon the thoughts float away too.

I think of it as a variety of "anxiety," but of course that doesn't mean it's any less odd. Naming it does nothing. But knowing that the impression/thought itself is shared by all humanity in one form or another *does* do something positive for me. The beast is a part of universal human experience, but of course some people never experience it. Many do and live lives that reflect that they understand the fragility of life and the precariousness of our position as living beings.

It might even be said that none of us were actually living on the "surface" of life before. I think we must have all been very sensitive before this experience ever happened, living at a deeper level of awareness. And now, there is no escaping the fact that the great writers who have spoken of existential angst were truly speaking to us.

 

[Scattered]

I'm going to have to be the idiot that spouts ignorant defensive statements. Although thats usually what I am normally.

It's difficult for me to take the advice of "just ignore it" and live in reality with the masses. I have a hard time accepting living in a state of constant confusion and disorientation. The masses don't think about these things because they live in their own little world that is satisfying enough to not have to ask questions. Not everyone lives in that world, and people who do may experience something in the future that jars their complacency to the point that they just aren't "sure" anymore. Friendly little chats, gossip, and television just doesn't have the same effect anymore because it seems shallow compared to the "nausea" they experience at the shallowness of reality.

I also get flashes. I ask why I am alive, and if I am alive why was I given this body to live in and not any number of other potentially infinite forms?Why am I a human? Why am I living in this world under these particular constraints? And now that I am here, how do I make sense of a seemingly senseless situation? As long as a person is unsatisfied they will return to these questions. Satisfaction is fleeting enough that it seems inevitable that we come back to these questions and ask the base questions for which we expect an answer.

 

[M A R S]

I get the fear that this is all a dream. Like i said in a different post i was ok of a short bit. But as i type this i feel like im in a dream. I know im not, but just the feel / fear.

 

[Martinelv]

The masses don't think about these things because they live in their own little world that is satisfying enough to not have to ask questions

How do you know this Scattered ? Are you telepathic ? Are you presumptious enough to assume that the unhappy masses haven't got a non-conformist thought in their heads ? Or perhaps you think that their 'own little world' (which, incidently - is different from one person to the next, despite what you may think) is something to be sneered upon. You see, the problem with professional depressives is that they are so entirely consumed with their own miseries that they think that other people can't possibly be happy.

Anyway, in the end, I'd rather be a happy robot than a miserable rebel. But I guess most people strike a balance between the two, and that's what is termed, I think - being healthy.

You of all people should know that our turgid view of the world, when depressed, is like sticking your face into a pile of s**t, so we can't come to any sensible judgements. It takes a life-time of moments of misery and pleasure to learn these lessons.

An honest appraisal of reality doesn't always equate to misery. You just do what the religious do, lie to yourself a tiny bit, and get on with you life.

 

[Scattered]

How do you know this Scattered ? Are you telepathic ? Are you presumptious enough to assume that the unhappy masses haven't got a non-conformist thought in their heads ? Or perhaps you think that their 'own little world' (which, incidently - is different from one person to the next, despite what you may think) is something to be sneered upon. .

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/88/99740.htm

Depression, anxiety, and mental illness is on the rise in industrialized countries. Many people will experience a major depressive episode during their lifetime, others have ongoing problems without ever reporting their illness due to stigma, denial, or other factors. Its reasonable to say that some of these people are also self-medicating with drugs and alcohol.

We live in a time where people ARE unhappy. They are unhappy because they work long hours, they are unhappy because they experience a lack of connection and community that occurs with the rise of modern society. You don't have to be a hermit like me to experience this. There are many people who are rich, successful, and physically healthy yet are depressed. I simply call into question societal values that may be contributing to these things. We attribute success and happiness to the accumulation of wealth and material things. We value meaningless diversions and distractions as worthwhile. We live lives that are devoid of content because of our almost religious zeal for the shallow, and immediate -- for convienence.

So I view myself as being a sometimes depressed, sometimes sad, and sometimes disconnected person whose views may be skewed, yet are not completely divorced from reality as it is. I wallow in shit, others track shit across the floor and pretend it isn't there. I disavow a complete and perfect picture of reality. Others buy into what they're being sold and say that this is what life is. When life begins to seem empty, its time to be medicated. Whether that relief comes from the man on the corner, a bar, or a major drug company; it doesn't matter.

 

[Martinelv]

Scattered, you could have dated that 1576, or 1923, or 1434bc, and it would have been equally relevant.

People of a depressive nature since the dawn of time have thought and, more importantly, believed, that their particular moment in time was going down the s**t pan. That life was getting 'worse'. It's bullshit. It just changes, and what we complain about 'changes'. I agree, we as a race are on a one-way trip to shits-ville, but I'm too selfish not to try and enjoy the ride now and again. I call it Cyrpto-Opticynicism.

 

[agentcooper]

Depression, anxiety, and mental illness is on the rise in industrialized countries. Many people will experience a major depressive episode during their lifetime, others have ongoing problems without ever reporting their illness due to stigma, denial, or other factors. Its reasonable to say that some of these people are also self-medicating with drugs and alcohol.

We live in a time where people ARE unhappy. They are unhappy because they work long hours, they are unhappy because they experience a lack of connection and community that occurs with the rise of modern society. You don't have to be a hermit like me to experience this. There are many people who are rich, successful, and physically healthy yet are depressed. I simply call into question societal values that may be contributing to these things. We attribute success and happiness to the accumulation of wealth and material things. We value meaningless diversions and distractions as worthwhile. We live lives that are devoid of content because of our almost religious zeal for the shallow, and immediate -- for convienence.

that is all so true and i love how you put it! i think that is one of the good things about having a disorder like depersonalization...we aren't worried so much about those superficial and material things. all we want is to not have dp anymore (for the most part). i know that having derealization and slight depersonalization has made me a better person in some ways...i was never someone who cared much for material things but now i don't care at all! i value the relationships in my life sooo much more than i used to and i am much more artistic than i used to be.

 

[Martinelv]

Fine. So I should fully expect that once you recover from DR/DP you will shun all the luxuries of modern life, and go and live in a cave somewhere, yes? Perhaps to cleanse yourself of this polluted world? Yes? Flowers in your hair, talking to the animals? Shelves of battered old philosophy books?

Crap. Crap. Crappity crap. Chocolate and expensive caviar will never taste so good. Life is short and things are hard to resist.

 

[Scattered]

The idea is not to become a cave-dwelling monk that shuns the world. The point is simply to realize that some of the things our culture values are not that important. As well as to establish a connection between some aspects of our society and our mental health. To simply say that all mental health is directly related to genes and not our everyday situations is simplistic. Lifestyle plays a very important role in our mental health and should not be put on the backburner. So when I rant, alot of it may be bullshit, however I don't believe its as skewed as people would like it to be.

 

[agentcooper]

yup...that's me...flowers in my hair right now...but i'm kinda stinky anyway on account of me living in a cave.

martin, i'm not saying i don't have any material things or that i don't appreciate luxury when i have it. i was just agreeing with scattered that i don't think they can give someone true happiness.

 

[Milan]

Honestly, the more material comforts I have the more content and satisfied I feel. It's not the answer to happiness but I'd rather live in house with a TV, running water, fridge, computer etc than a mud shack in Africa.

 

[Scattered]

When I make an argument about material wealth not bringing happiness, I'm referring to that which we believe we need once our basic needs have already been met. So of course, we all need a house (but not a TV), clean running water, food, clothes, access to adequate healthcare, etc. Once americans have acquired this its as if its not enough we always need to have more. Its this quest for more than what we need that causes dissatisfaction in my opinion.

 

[Martinelv]

The point is simply to realize that some of the things our culture values are not that important.

By whose standards ? Yours? Mine? The Government? Who decides? Sounds too much like censorship to me. Let anarchy reign and let's just try and make the best of it.

To simply say that all mental health is directly related to genes and not our everyday situations is simplistic. Lifestyle plays a very important role in our mental health

This is true of course. But there has always been mental illness, always, since we first crawled out of the swamp. Cats and dogs can have mental illnesses, and you're not telling me that's because they watch too much TV? (Although that may be the case in some countries ). It's not Playstations and Beefburgers, the hole in the ozone layer, glogal warning, religion, atheism, air-conditioning etc, etc, that is screwing us up - they are just different flavours of detrimental factors that have always been around to torment us.

The fact that we have the capacity for mental illness is the problem. And we can't do anything about that, so we are buggered for eternity. No amount of simple living with stave off the inevitable. But we can choose to live our lives in a way that gives us peace of mind, at the very least. Yet the longer we lay about thinking about it, or moaning about the ills of the world, the less time we have to act on it. Get up, get out, get laid, get drunk, plant a tree, adopt a whale....do....something.

 

[LISA NICHOLS]

yes i too suffer from that its horrible isnt it i could be doing something totally stress free and bam im in that horrible feeling my stomuch flips and i get that horrible gut wrenching fear feeling

 

[Martinelv]

Hello Lisa from Croydon. Would you like to either:

a: Marry me
b: 'Enjoy' a random affair with me.

Cheers,
Martin.

 

[Scattered]

If only I had the energy.

 

[LISA NICHOLS]

Hello Lisa from Croydon. Would you like to either:

a: Marry me
b: 'Enjoy' a random affair with me.

Cheers,
Martin.

lol oi oi :wink:

 

[Martinelv]

I take that as a no then.