[Guest]

This is not to be construed as a religious post. More so than many here, I am not a particularly religious person.
On the other hand, whether you are Catholic, Hindu, Atheist, etc. John Paul II was a very important figure for the past quarter century. His tireless work for the ill - including the mentally ill, his pivotal involvement in the (relatively peaceful) fall of Communism in Europe and elsewhere, his eloquent use of political pressure in other areas - backed by 1.1 billion followers in his endless effort to promote human rights. His absolute refusal to change his stance on abortion and even the use of contraceptives........many things he did - whether we as individuals shared the same beliefs, had direct impact on many, many people.
And, as a Catholic myself, I will remember him as a strong man, one who pursued what he believed in - without giving an inch, all while dealing with significant difficulties of his own, with grace and dignity.

May Pope John Paul II find peace with his God.

 

[dreamcatcher]

RIP pope john paul II

 

[sebastian]

RIP pope john paul II

Amen to that. God bless him.

 

[Dreamer]

I'm glad sc posted this. I am a woman without a religion, though I seek the spiritual where I can find it.

I agree wholeheartedly with what sc says in that this man was a man of great integrity, whether you agreed with him or not. Catholic or not.

As a mental health advocate I am forever grateful that Pope John Paul II was concerned about the mentally ill. His death comes at a very strange time for me. He is in my thoughts since my Catholic friend's suicide (after she took her mother's life) last December (a caregiver homicide-suicide). She was clearly seriously depressed. But there was a question of whether or not she should be buried in a Catholic cemetary.

Her and her mother's ashes were buried, next to her father and other family, in their Catholic cemetary, just this past Thursday. Sadly it was a family-only memorial, but I will visit the gravesite in the summer.

Oddly enough, I have (indirectly) Pope John Paul II to thank for this.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP96N30.htm

"Whoever suffers from mental illness 'always' bears God's image and likeness in himself, as does every human being In addition, he 'always' has the inalienable right not only to be considered as an image of God and therefore as a person, but also to be treated as such", the Holy Father said on Saturday, 30 November, addressing participants in the international conference sponsored by the Pontifical Council for Pastoral Assistance to Health-Care Workers, on the theme: "In the Image and Likeness of God: Always? Illness of the Human Mind".

The link is a translation of the Pope's address, which was given in Italian.
Taken from:
L'Osservatore Romano
Weekly Edition in English
11 December 1996
L'Osservatore Romano is the newspaper of the Holy See.

Thanks sc

May this great man rest in peace.
And so may my dear friend Pati and her mother, Mary.

D

 

[Guest]

Let the record show that bad 'ol moderator sc deleted a response put here by Depersonalized. Something to the effect........."long live Communism, and I'm glad the little fuck is dead".

Just a reminder for the children out there - this site is for adults. Adults who understand sensitivity, and are able to at least pretend to have a little class. If you do not fit that profile, maybe you should move on.

As I clearly noted in the original post - this is not a religious thread. It is simply an acknowledgement of the passing of a very important individual.

Any more inflammatory garbage gets posted here and I'll delete the whole thing.

 

[Homeskooled]

+JMJ+

Dear Sc,
Thank you for putting this up. It shows a great sensitivity to the issues which I think are important in this life. The posts in this thread are indicative of the class which make me proud to be part of a group of this caliber. Thanks Sc - your alright in my book.

Its hard for me to even put into words how I feel about this. I admit, I cried when I heard of his illness. I am priveliged to have lived in the past two decades of which he was pope. In all the history of the Catholic Church, there has never been a papacy of this magnitude. His writings fill 150 volumes, his trips extended to 125 countries. As someone else has said, if Karol Wojtyla had not become pope, he most certainly would have come down to us as one of the most influential thinkers of the 20th century. He was a renaissance man of the highest magnitude. He was a stage actor, a poet, an intellectual, a statesman, an orator, a philosopher, and a man of God. If there were one person whom I would most like to be like, it would be him. To have his wisdom, his prayerfulness, his compassion, his adept handling of world affairs, and his sense of purpose would indeed make a full life. May God have mercy on him, may He show His face to Him, and may perpetual light shine upon him. May he and all the faithful departed through the mercy of God rest in peace.

Veritas in Jesu Christe,
Homeskooled

 

[falling_free]

Despite being an agnostic myself I do think he did a lot of good things even though I disagreed with some of his more tradional views.

He undoubtadlly was a good man

I hope he got to see his pearly gates...

 

[Axel19]

I too am an agnostic. I think that he was one of the few good leaders in the world over the last 25 years, and whether you were Catholic or not he had a great deal of useful wisdom you could employ in your own life.

 

[Guest]

I am not a fan of organized religion at all, but I found Pope John Paul II to be a remarkable man - likely one of the few most significant forces of the 20th Century.

In particular, for ME, I admired his originality. Even while holding one of the most specific roles on the planet, he maintained and clearly showed his individuality. Ideas he carried out were his own, coming directly from the authentic person he was - creative and original. I think he was a powerful role model in that area - especially for other Catholics. He could urge being a member of a flock without sacrificing a strong personality and individual authenticity. He will leave a hard robe to fill, grin.

 

[Guest]

I have faith, and I think the Pope was really a good man. I hope he will find Out there what he spent his life searching and battling for . He really deserves peace.

 

[Guest]

Sorry guys, but I never liked him. In fact I found him to be a hypocrite.
Why?

Anti-gay
Anti-feminist and didnt want any women in a function in the Catholic church (which is ALSO discrimination).
Anti-condom use, which caused to spread AIDS in Africa even more
Anti-abortion
Anti-euthanasia

Didnt like him at ALL. But thats just my opinion.

But hope he may rest in peace, he's human after all.
Sorry, I cant stand the man :? lol

 

[Axel19]

Wendy I do see your point, and this is the biggest problem I have with religious leaders.
As an agnostic bordering on atheism I tend to ignore what religious leaders say about God, that we must honour him etc, because I'm not sure I understand who/what God is, nor do I have the energy anymore to even think about it. However I do feel that religious leaders, most notably the pope, do have a great deal of useful wisdom for everyone religious and non religious alike, including gay people.
The problem I have lies in his disapproval of gay people. I think it goes without saying that homosexuality is as real as heterosexuality. So it makes perfect sense for straight people to accept gay people as they would anyone else. It also makes sense for the Catholic church not to permit gay marriage within their church. The bible states that Catholic marital union is specifically between man and woman. Whether you agree with this or not is besides the point, but Catholic marriage is, by definition, between a man and a woman.
So whilst Catholic leaders can provide useful wisdom for everyone, they draw a blank when it comes to homosexuality, and I don't quite know what to make of this. I don't know exactly what the pope said about homosexuality, but doubtlessly it conflicted with every gay person's personal views on their own sexuality.
That aside I'd probably agree with his views on the other areas you mentioned Wendy. I don't really have any fixed absolute opinions on those issues, because I'm anxious, dp'ed and think way too much. However I think it is the duty of life loving Catholics, and of course the pope to disapprove of abortion and euthanasia. He provides an absolutely pro-life view towards these issues which I think is essential. He was there to give words of encouragement to those who are faced with unwanted pregnancy, or those who want to die, and I think he did so very well.
As for Condoms, well it has actually been shown in certain African countries, that the best way of dealing with AIDS is celibacy and monogonous sexual union where a safe oppurtuniy presents itself. This is of course in keeping with Catholic teachings. This stance on contraception is of course debatable, but the pope provided a sound argument.
He was one of the few leaders who talked, for the most part, sense in the world over the last quater of a century.
If the moderators feel this reply is off the point of remembering Pope John Paul II then please do move it to its own post, thanks.

p.s.Even though I am an agnostic bordering on atheist, I did actually see the pope when he was in Toronto in 2002, on my mother's wishes. I'd actually had my first major weed three hour panic attack thingy just a week earlier and was too busy figuring out my new found dp to listen to him.

 

[enigma]

Can I be an usher at your wedding, Wendy?

e

 

[Guest]

I wish I wouldn't have started this thread :shock:

The point of this was simple - to acknowledge the passing of one of the most significant individuals to come along in a generation (any attempt to argue against the validity of that statement would be doomed to failure). It wasn't meant to be a religious, or political discussion. My fault I guess. I included both religious and political references in the original post. Difficult to avoid though considering the person involved.

Rather than continue to try to keep it hatred (and ignorance) free, however, I will gracefully exit. Give some of you a chance to show your true colors to the rest of the group anyway.
I am, however, becoming bored with the pm's and will no longer read them. Please find a different mod to cry to. I am not in a very good place lately and to be honest need to limit negativity in my life to the extent possible.
This is your group folks. If you have a problem with a particular member - show some kahonies and deal with it yourself.

 

[Guest]

I probably shouldnt have posted that, I reconsider. My apologies Sc.

 

[enigma]

mistake, sorry

 

[sebastian]

I probably shouldnt have posted that, I reconsider. My apologies Sc.

Why? You're allowed to have an opinion.

 

[Scattered]

I feel sorry that a human being died and suffered. That being said I think its ridiculous if you expect everyone to respect the pope. If I dont agree with the pope and the values he represents or the causes he tries to advance I find it in no way insensitive to not accept him as a person worthy of veneration. I don't think expressing this view is the least bit insensitive or inflammatory. People have a right to their opinion, even if it may seem harsh, as long as it isn't blatantly obscene or derogatory.

 

[Guest]

Sebestion is correct Wendy, you are allowed to have an opinion. Although to be honest your comments seemed to be directed against the Catholic Church, not the Pope. You may want to check the Pope's record on championing human rights, including women's rights (all while working under the ridiculously stringent limitations of the Catholic Church). Anyway, you certainly have no need to apologize for your views. What you think is as valid as what anyone else thinks. Even if it isn't directly responding to the original subject matter.

Of course with that logic, that means everything posted here has been fine: "I'm glad the little fuck is dead". "He was a pathetic little shit from a pathetic little church". What else.........oh another "I'm glad he's dead." There was one other response I deleted too, something about "Fuck the Catholics".
It's inciteful comments like those that can make a place like this special.
Yep, freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. I apologize for deleting anything. If I've offended anyone by trying to keep this thread out of the gutter, including you Sebastion - my sincere apologies.

 

[Guest]

You know...it's so sad really. Certainly ANYone and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Your parents, for example, are entitled to call you a worthless piece of shit, if they choose. People are entitled to call you a value-less member of this world because you're mentally ill. People are free to say whatever is on their minds.

THe question is more of "is this appropriate?" given a time and place.

Nobody is taking away your freedom.

But in a world of respect and compassion, one does wonder why people CHOOSE to be incendiary.

IF we post something under someone's thread that is clearly going against the intent of the thread, we're free to do so. But it does say something about impulse control, I think. And it says something about passive aggressive hostility.

Let's not chant "freedom of speech" when things are really about something else.