Ive Lost My Mind!

Hi Matt,
This story has stretched out a little longer than I?d probably intended, and longer than most will want to read, but it?s a great example of how alike our problems with memory are and the lengths that a person will go to in order to try and rationalise the problem. I've also included some interesting text bytes from others suffering from the same problem.

Poor memory and cognition have both been well documented complaints of mine over the course of my battles with DP. Both the symptoms and the affects it has had on every aspect of my life were very real and had a very large impact on my level of functioning. In fact I've been so tormented by the memory problems and 'brain fog' that I've recently undergone a vast and very expensive array of medical testing in an effort to put a name on what?s been giving me the grief.

The tests ranged from full blood scans, to an EEG through to functional MRIs. They all came back negative and in one case I'd even had the organic structure of my brain quoted as being a benchmark case study - I?m guessing that?s a good thing. The clear tests brought me a brief sense of relief, but the DP, anxiety and ruminations were soon back in full force driving me to dig deeper to try and find an explanation that would make this all go away.

In what I thought would be the ultimate test of how much the disorder has affected me, I saw my Uni psychologist last week and decided to take an IQ test to compare my functioning against scores obtained during the period before the onset of DP.

The score, which I will not mention here, was certainly surprising for a guy who could barely concentrate for long enough to read through an entire question in one attempt without breaking away and looking up. The result actually came out to be higher than what I'd achieved during the time when I thought I had a clear and perfectly functional mind. After a bit of head scratching I'd decided that it was most likely more of an exercise in morale building than a real test of conative capability. So earlier this week in a moment of madness and deception, I managed to convince one of the most intelligent, grounded people I knew in the form of a senior engineer from work to tell me his scores from interestingly, the same test he?d sat earlier on in the year. He agreed and our scores were all of 3 points apart.

I was dumbfounded. Why have I been having so many problems with memory, concentration and cognition our apparently cognitive abilities were so closely matched? He naturally asked me why I'd make such an unusual request, and knowing that he knew something was up, I fessed up and told him about the problems I was having with DP.

As with most observations of a person with DP, he told me that he?d never seen me struggle and then went onto suggest that the problems I was having may be attributed to extreme anxiety. The man?s also an avid cyclist and happened to have his heart rate monitor at work on the day. He promptly handed it over to me and after strapping it on, we were both shocked to see that I had a resting heart rate of 120bpm. That massive, comparable to what you?d expect to see from a moderate jog and extremely high for a person who?s as fit as I am.

After reading through countless medical journals and personal posts on the topic, it seems that extreme anxiety alone in the form of GAD can apparently cause the memory and thought problems that we?ve been experiencing.

An example in case. This question and the replies were taken from an Anxiety group on Usenet:

<CUT>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Besideds the *normal* symtoms of anxiety/agoraphobia/panic (agp) like
avoidance, sweaty palms, shortness of breath, dizziness, figity,
nervous (etc) sometimes I get this really weird feeling. Its like I'm
living in a dream. I feel like "I'm here, but I'm not really-here-"
My body does what it knows it should but my mind is short circuted.
Does anyone have this feeling? Is it a normal symtom of agp? Thanks
in advance.

Dallas

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Totally agree the detached feeling you have is normal for PD sufferers.

Thomas

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rod Sterling speaking...

"Yes. That so-called dream-like feeling Dallas is experiencing is yet
another mile-marker on the road of the unknown. A sureal path of anxiety
and panic that marks that boundry between the real and the unreal. A
feeling that will lead him to terra incognito. For he has just
entered... the twilight zone."

<spooky theremin music begins>

Sorry Dallas. After Cyndie mentioned twilight zone, I couldn't resist a
little fun.
Best Wishes,
Arthur

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dallas, this has to be one of *the* most common symptoms of
PD - often called derealisation (with an optional z for you
people on the wrong side of the pond!). It's in the "harmless
but hateful" category and has been discussed here a great deal.
I'd like to be able to say "don't worry about it" but I know it's
hard not to. I *can* assure you that it is *not* a sign of
"real" mental illness, however.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes I sure have had that "living in a dream (nightmare)" feeling. I feel
like I've been dropped into someone else's movie.

I believe the new "Eudora Mail" comes with a spell checker. You can also
write your mail in a word processor and "attach" it as text in mail.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I too have those feelings, I thought I was the only one. I dont think
mine are neccesarily do to panic though. I am often in a struggle to stay
in the here and now. I constantly fighting to get out of this drifting
off daydreaming state. If I have these symptoms even when alone I dont
think it is do to panic, depression maybe. Just the other day at work I
found myself in an uncontrollable situation during a training class which
involved myself and about ten others, I had to get up and explain breifly
about a simple topic, but my mind suddenly became a cloud, there were no
words flowing, so I had to struggle on my feet to find words, words came
out but they didnt flow, to me they practically made no sense, but the
ironic thing about it is I was able to get out of the situation without
anyone knowing I almost lost my mind, the little words that did come out
were just enough to save me. The bad thing about my condition is that I
can not put a label on it. I have no excuses for my feelings or behavior
because I dont know the cause or what to call it, so I cant tell someone
what is going on with me except to say that I am screwed up inside, to
many that means I am just another loser. Although I have a slightly above
average IQ I cant express myself much verbally because I cannot focus. I
lose train of thought before I can complete a sentence. I am now 39, and
have struggle since kindergarten with this, this is my dirty little
secret. To others I am simply aloof, but they dont know the reason why
not even my family. I cant explain to someone what the problem is since
there are numerouse ones all with the same results. Depression, cant
focus, cant cencentrate, daydream, drift off, difficulty learning,
difficulty communicating. Add these all up and you get screwed up bad.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yea yea, average ordinary non-harmful symptom. IMHO: The cause is
a "damper circuit" in your brain ment to protect against shock or
extreme stimulation. Sometimes kicks on when you have a near miss
say in an auto accident or some exhilarating moment in sports where
for an instant time can seem to stand still etc. The problem is
all the adrenaline and cortisols and god knows what else that you
produce when anxious "trick" this circuit into turning on. Sensation
is damped, you feel weird, not really there, inside a fish bowl. Might
also be exaserbated by somewhat reduced blood flow.

This goes away when you learn to reduce your anxiety and fear levels.

List of resources:
http://cns-web.bu.edu/pub/bradski/calm.html

Gary

</CUT>

One point, and perhaps the most important and best ignored was that the symptoms did not effect me a contant level all of the time. The were horrific for the majority of the time, but were on the odd occasion broken up both small patches of clear thought and sometimes brief moments of genius. Looking back, these often occured during times where I was 'getting lost in the moment', the times when I'd amusingly forget to ruminate . A classic symptom of anxiety, not brain damage

So there you are, like Janine said 'The obsessions will destroy you. Your life will become nothing except "checking" yourself to verify if you are sane.'. Its both highly likely that you?re suffering from an intense fixed level of anxiety, and you?re smarter and more observant than you give yourself credit for. I'd managed to convince myself that I was a complete moron after 8 years of rumination.

Hi Matt,
This story has stretched out a little longer than I?d probably intended, and longer than most will want to read, but it?s a great example of how alike our problems with memory are and the lengths that a person will go to in order to try and rationalise the problem. I've also included some interesting text bytes from others suffering from the same problem.

Poor memory and cognition have both been well documented complaints of mine over the course of my battles with DP. Both the symptoms and the affects it has had on every aspect of my life were very real and had a very large impact on my level of functioning. In fact I've been so tormented by the memory problems and 'brain fog' that I've recently undergone a vast and very expensive array of medical testing in an effort to put a name on what?s been giving me the grief.

The tests ranged from full blood scans, to an EEG through to functional MRIs. They all came back negative and in one case I'd even had the organic structure of my brain quoted as being a benchmark case study - I?m guessing that?s a good thing. The clear tests brought me a brief sense of relief, but the DP, anxiety and ruminations were soon back in full force driving me to dig deeper to try and find an explanation that would make this all go away.

In what I thought would be the ultimate test of how much the disorder has affected me, I saw my Uni psychologist last week and decided to take an IQ test to compare my functioning against scores obtained during the period before the onset of DP.

The score, which I will not mention here, was certainly surprising for a guy who could barely concentrate for long enough to read through an entire question in one attempt without breaking away and looking up. The result actually came out to be higher than what I'd achieved during the time when I thought I had a clear and perfectly functional mind. After a bit of head scratching I'd decided that it was most likely more of an exercise in morale building than a real test of conative capability. So earlier this week in a moment of madness and deception, I managed to convince one of the most intelligent, grounded people I knew in the form of a senior engineer from work to tell me his scores from interestingly, the same test he?d sat earlier on in the year. He agreed and our scores were all of 3 points apart.

I was dumbfounded. Why have I been having so many problems with memory, concentration and cognition our apparently cognitive abilities were so closely matched? He naturally asked me why I'd make such an unusual request, and knowing that he knew something was up, I fessed up and told him about the problems I was having with DP.

As with most observations of a person with DP, he told me that he?d never seen me struggle and then went onto suggest that the problems I was having may be attributed to extreme anxiety. The man?s also an avid cyclist and happened to have his heart rate monitor at work on the day. He promptly handed it over to me and after strapping it on, we were both shocked to see that I had a resting heart rate of 120bpm. That massive, comparable to what you?d expect to see from a moderate jog and extremely high for a person who?s as fit as I am.

After reading through countless medical journals and personal posts on the topic, it seems that extreme anxiety alone in the form of GAD can apparently cause the memory and thought problems that we?ve been experiencing.

An example in case. This question and the replies were taken from an Anxiety group on Usenet:

<CUT>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Besideds the *normal* symtoms of anxiety/agoraphobia/panic (agp) like
avoidance, sweaty palms, shortness of breath, dizziness, figity,
nervous (etc) sometimes I get this really weird feeling. Its like I'm
living in a dream. I feel like "I'm here, but I'm not really-here-"
My body does what it knows it should but my mind is short circuted.
Does anyone have this feeling? Is it a normal symtom of agp? Thanks
in advance.

Dallas

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Totally agree the detached feeling you have is normal for PD sufferers.

Thomas

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rod Sterling speaking...

"Yes. That so-called dream-like feeling Dallas is experiencing is yet
another mile-marker on the road of the unknown. A sureal path of anxiety
and panic that marks that boundry between the real and the unreal. A
feeling that will lead him to terra incognito. For he has just
entered... the twilight zone."

<spooky theremin music begins>

Sorry Dallas. After Cyndie mentioned twilight zone, I couldn't resist a
little fun.
Best Wishes,
Arthur

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dallas, this has to be one of *the* most common symptoms of
PD - often called derealisation (with an optional z for you
people on the wrong side of the pond!). It's in the "harmless
but hateful" category and has been discussed here a great deal.
I'd like to be able to say "don't worry about it" but I know it's
hard not to. I *can* assure you that it is *not* a sign of
"real" mental illness, however.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes I sure have had that "living in a dream (nightmare)" feeling. I feel
like I've been dropped into someone else's movie.

I believe the new "Eudora Mail" comes with a spell checker. You can also
write your mail in a word processor and "attach" it as text in mail.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I too have those feelings, I thought I was the only one. I dont think
mine are neccesarily do to panic though. I am often in a struggle to stay
in the here and now. I constantly fighting to get out of this drifting
off daydreaming state. If I have these symptoms even when alone I dont
think it is do to panic, depression maybe. Just the other day at work I
found myself in an uncontrollable situation during a training class which
involved myself and about ten others, I had to get up and explain breifly
about a simple topic, but my mind suddenly became a cloud, there were no
words flowing, so I had to struggle on my feet to find words, words came
out but they didnt flow, to me they practically made no sense, but the
ironic thing about it is I was able to get out of the situation without
anyone knowing I almost lost my mind, the little words that did come out
were just enough to save me. The bad thing about my condition is that I
can not put a label on it. I have no excuses for my feelings or behavior
because I dont know the cause or what to call it, so I cant tell someone
what is going on with me except to say that I am screwed up inside, to
many that means I am just another loser. Although I have a slightly above
average IQ I cant express myself much verbally because I cannot focus. I
lose train of thought before I can complete a sentence. I am now 39, and
have struggle since kindergarten with this, this is my dirty little
secret. To others I am simply aloof, but they dont know the reason why
not even my family. I cant explain to someone what the problem is since
there are numerouse ones all with the same results. Depression, cant
focus, cant cencentrate, daydream, drift off, difficulty learning,
difficulty communicating. Add these all up and you get screwed up bad.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yea yea, average ordinary non-harmful symptom. IMHO: The cause is
a "damper circuit" in your brain ment to protect against shock or
extreme stimulation. Sometimes kicks on when you have a near miss
say in an auto accident or some exhilarating moment in sports where
for an instant time can seem to stand still etc. The problem is
all the adrenaline and cortisols and god knows what else that you
produce when anxious "trick" this circuit into turning on. Sensation
is damped, you feel weird, not really there, inside a fish bowl. Might
also be exaserbated by somewhat reduced blood flow.

This goes away when you learn to reduce your anxiety and fear levels.

List of resources:
http://cns-web.bu.edu/pub/bradski/calm.html

Gary

</CUT>

One point, and perhaps the most important and best ignored was that the symptoms did not effect me a contant level all of the time. The were horrific for the majority of the time, but were on the odd occasion broken up both small patches of clear thought and sometimes brief moments of genius. Looking back, these often occured during times where I was 'getting lost in the moment', the times when I'd amusingly forget to ruminate . A classic symptom of anxiety, not brain damage

So there you are, like Janine said 'The obsessions will destroy you. Your life will become nothing except "checking" yourself to verify if you are sane.'. Its both highly likely that you?re suffering from an intense fixed level of anxiety, and you?re smarter and more observant than you give yourself credit for. I'd managed to convince myself that I was a complete moron after 8 years of rumination.

wow, well, I read it all, Nemesis and it was fascinating. Yep, you said it all there. Excellent "confessions"

Also, guys, remember: the majority of your brain's activities/thoughts are NOT conscious. It's hard to comprehend that - but it's crucial for us obsessives to get it.

Repeat: the majority of your thinking/processing is NOT conscious. When we develop obsessions, we are trying to make ALL our thoughts conscious - we are working directly against the very fabric of human thinking.

We are trying to KNOW/FEEL/ACKNOWLEDGE/VERIFY in a fully conscious and Controlled way thoughts and mental processes that go on just fine OUTSIDE consciousness. The "horror" of it all comes in when we "fail" to master those processes in full awareness. NOBODY can. We are not built that way.

But the trauma/terror of no longer trusting our own minds to just DO their things encourages us to try to yank the reins away from our unconscious (which was doing fine before we got grabby) and to do all our mental processes with FULL AWARENESS.

Ex: I need to PROVE to myself that my brain is working right and that I'm not insane...so I will examine the last thought I had. I replay/recall it and then I try to analyze whether the sentence structure was right/logical. Was I thinking only in phrases? Was my word choice good/logical? Why did I choose that word? Did I use that word earlier today? Why am I stuck on that word? Don't crazy people do that, keep repeating words..did I even MISuse the word? Am I using words wrong now?! Am I losing my ability to appreciate the real meaning of words? (and suddenly the very CONCEPT of thinking itself feels alien...so I try to remember the last ten things I said to somebody to make sure my brain is still okay..then I can't remember! Then I can't even remember the last TWO things I said! I'm losing, not only my cognitive ability to use words, but my ability to recall what I've just [email protected]!) I've been there, guys...and I was very good at it.

There is no way out.

except to force yourself to stop.

Hell awaits. All who ignore me.

grin,
J

wow, well, I read it all, Nemesis and it was fascinating. Yep, you said it all there. Excellent "confessions"

Also, guys, remember: the majority of your brain's activities/thoughts are NOT conscious. It's hard to comprehend that - but it's crucial for us obsessives to get it.

Repeat: the majority of your thinking/processing is NOT conscious. When we develop obsessions, we are trying to make ALL our thoughts conscious - we are working directly against the very fabric of human thinking.

We are trying to KNOW/FEEL/ACKNOWLEDGE/VERIFY in a fully conscious and Controlled way thoughts and mental processes that go on just fine OUTSIDE consciousness. The "horror" of it all comes in when we "fail" to master those processes in full awareness. NOBODY can. We are not built that way.

But the trauma/terror of no longer trusting our own minds to just DO their things encourages us to try to yank the reins away from our unconscious (which was doing fine before we got grabby) and to do all our mental processes with FULL AWARENESS.

Ex: I need to PROVE to myself that my brain is working right and that I'm not insane...so I will examine the last thought I had. I replay/recall it and then I try to analyze whether the sentence structure was right/logical. Was I thinking only in phrases? Was my word choice good/logical? Why did I choose that word? Did I use that word earlier today? Why am I stuck on that word? Don't crazy people do that, keep repeating words..did I even MISuse the word? Am I using words wrong now?! Am I losing my ability to appreciate the real meaning of words? (and suddenly the very CONCEPT of thinking itself feels alien...so I try to remember the last ten things I said to somebody to make sure my brain is still okay..then I can't remember! Then I can't even remember the last TWO things I said! I'm losing, not only my cognitive ability to use words, but my ability to recall what I've just [email protected]!) I've been there, guys...and I was very good at it.

There is no way out.

except to force yourself to stop.

Hell awaits. All who ignore me.

grin,
J

Janine, although i admit in the past you have been much more comforting (the whole "there is no way to stop it" thing is scary).. somehow u alyaws make me feel a little better. I was reading through your Dp story .. and its identical to mine.

No major issues throughout life.. small little irrational anxieties.. never quite fitting in.. then 2nd year high school.. BOOM.. anxiety attack happens.. and i never go back.. severe hypochondria and panick attacks develop.. I think im dying. I have every health fear in the book.. CONVINCING myself that my heart is about to stop.. I also spent a lot of time checking my pulse and other obsessive things like this.

Then one day.. i fell asleep.. and woke back up.. and there was DP.. at first it sort of came and went.. never completely back to normal.. but it was mostly just anxiety.. I felt kinda dreamy.. but it just kept getting worse and worse...

To the point where I no longer believed anything existed anymore.. Ive gone up and down since then.. weird fears of everything just dissapearing.. that nothing is real... that ive gone insane.. that im going to hurt myself or others... that ive been misdiagnosed and i have some awful brain disease... that im in a coma somewhere else and this is just a dream....

Now memory problems plague me.. and like everything else before them.. it has to be "THE WORST THING YET" .. it always seems the worst when its the one happening...

im petrified.. I struggle so hard just to remember what happened this morning.. I have no idea what happened when.. putting things in chronological order is impossible. If someone asked me if I remembered a specific event, i would.. but if someone asked me "what did you do today" .. i COMPLETELY freeze.. and i have NO idea.. i have such jumbled thoughts.. things just fly at me from the past few days and i have no idea if they happened today or years ago.. Then i frantically try and remember anything from anywhere.. and nothing comes at me.. Nothing...

I start to feel like my memory is completely gone.. and that my whole 18 years of life is just.. ruined.. pointless.. ive forgotten it all.

I know i have to stop myself.. but you know what its like.. its so HARD just to let go.. when all i want to do is prove to myself that i wont lose everything.. i feel like im grasping on to the few memories i have left.. and if i let go of the worry.. i let go of those last memories...

its crazy i know... thanks for the replies

Janine, although i admit in the past you have been much more comforting (the whole "there is no way to stop it" thing is scary).. somehow u alyaws make me feel a little better. I was reading through your Dp story .. and its identical to mine.

No major issues throughout life.. small little irrational anxieties.. never quite fitting in.. then 2nd year high school.. BOOM.. anxiety attack happens.. and i never go back.. severe hypochondria and panick attacks develop.. I think im dying. I have every health fear in the book.. CONVINCING myself that my heart is about to stop.. I also spent a lot of time checking my pulse and other obsessive things like this.

Then one day.. i fell asleep.. and woke back up.. and there was DP.. at first it sort of came and went.. never completely back to normal.. but it was mostly just anxiety.. I felt kinda dreamy.. but it just kept getting worse and worse...

To the point where I no longer believed anything existed anymore.. Ive gone up and down since then.. weird fears of everything just dissapearing.. that nothing is real... that ive gone insane.. that im going to hurt myself or others... that ive been misdiagnosed and i have some awful brain disease... that im in a coma somewhere else and this is just a dream....

Now memory problems plague me.. and like everything else before them.. it has to be "THE WORST THING YET" .. it always seems the worst when its the one happening...

im petrified.. I struggle so hard just to remember what happened this morning.. I have no idea what happened when.. putting things in chronological order is impossible. If someone asked me if I remembered a specific event, i would.. but if someone asked me "what did you do today" .. i COMPLETELY freeze.. and i have NO idea.. i have such jumbled thoughts.. things just fly at me from the past few days and i have no idea if they happened today or years ago.. Then i frantically try and remember anything from anywhere.. and nothing comes at me.. Nothing...

I start to feel like my memory is completely gone.. and that my whole 18 years of life is just.. ruined.. pointless.. ive forgotten it all.

I know i have to stop myself.. but you know what its like.. its so HARD just to let go.. when all i want to do is prove to myself that i wont lose everything.. i feel like im grasping on to the few memories i have left.. and if i let go of the worry.. i let go of those last memories...

its crazy i know... thanks for the replies

My dearest Matt:
Yes, your story and mine are SO similar.

May I also draw your attention to the following quote of yours:

although i admit in the past you have been much more comforting (the whole "there is no way to stop it" thing is scary).. somehow u alyaws make me feel a little better

Click to expand...

You believe you have forgotten all of 18 years of your life, but somehow not only do you manage to recall nearly everything I've ever said to you, but you have managed to remember it with such clarity that you can discern that the NUANCE of most of my other comments seemed more soothing and in this thread I was being a bit more ominous (which is entirely accurate).

there is NOTHING wrong with your brain.
There is, however, plenty wrong with how you've gotten used to thinking about your own mind.

Peace,
J

My dearest Matt:
Yes, your story and mine are SO similar.

May I also draw your attention to the following quote of yours:

although i admit in the past you have been much more comforting (the whole "there is no way to stop it" thing is scary).. somehow u alyaws make me feel a little better

Click to expand...

You believe you have forgotten all of 18 years of your life, but somehow not only do you manage to recall nearly everything I've ever said to you, but you have managed to remember it with such clarity that you can discern that the NUANCE of most of my other comments seemed more soothing and in this thread I was being a bit more ominous (which is entirely accurate).

there is NOTHING wrong with your brain.
There is, however, plenty wrong with how you've gotten used to thinking about your own mind.

Peace,
J