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No, there isn't.
 
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It is possible to work it out yourself. There are various tests available online to see if you have the symptoms. Finding out the the main cause is another matter. It can appear due to many kinds of reasons such as depression, anxiety, epilepsy, psychedelic drug use, vestibular migraine, drug withdrawal and the list goes on. The main reason overall appears to be long term stress and anxiety. Doctors will tell you different things, especially ones who don't specialise in mental health disorders because dp/dr is not a well understood or well defined condition in medical literature. Have a good read up of the main symptoms and think about what was happening in your life when the condition started and hopefully you can work out the causes. Then you can think about what you can do to get better. If you have been checked out by doctors and given the all clear then I would say your dp/dr is most likely caused by anxiety issues.
 

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I believe dp and dr are themselves symptoms. Sometimes they can be symptoms of a serious underlying illness. Other times...not.

Which is why I recommend having an EEG to help sort it out.

There is no test to establish you are experiencing symptoms of dp/dr.

My dp/dr stemmed from an epileptic syndrome. Yours might stem from Lyme disease, or some other neurological illness.

Or even emotional stressors which are beyond your coping capacity.

Brain doctors have "bigger fish to fry", as one neurologist put it to me. His personal opinion didn't offend me, but his

failure to order an EEG to establish my epilepsy cost me many years of life.
 

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His personal opinion didn't offend me, but his

failure to order an EEG to establish my epilepsy cost me many years of life.
Agree. If you have these symptoms without server anxiety at the outset you have to have done some testing to exclude that it haven't an organic origin.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I believe dp and dr are themselves symptoms. Sometimes they can be symptoms of a serious underlying illness. Other times...not.

Which is why I recommend having an EEG to help sort it out.

There is no test to establish you are experiencing symptoms of dp/dr.

My dp/dr stemmed from an epileptic syndrome. Yours might stem from Lyme disease, or some other neurological illness.

Or even emotional stressors which are beyond your coping capacity.

Brain doctors have "bigger fish to fry", as one neurologist put it to me. His personal opinion didn't offend me, but his

failure to order an EEG to establish my epilepsy cost me many years of life.
I'm sorry you had that kind of doctor!

I had EEG and all sort of things like that. Nothing major there.

My symptoms are more visual nowadays, but all eye doctors say the same thing "I don't see anything wrong with you, go and see a neurologist". And all neurologists are saying "I don't see anything wrong with you, go and see an ophthalmologist". So I go from one to another trying to convince them there's something wrong with me. The same goes with therapists. One diagnosed me with dp/dr, another one told me "Who diagnosed you? You don't have anything". So
confused.gif
 

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I'm sorry you had that kind of doctor!
I had EEG and all sort of things like that. Nothing major there.
My symptoms are more visual nowadays, but all eye doctors say the same thing "I don't see anything wrong with you, go and see a neurologist". And all neurologists are saying "I don't see anything wrong with you, go and see an ophthalmologist". So I go from one to another trying to convince them there's something wrong with me. The same goes with therapists. One diagnosed me with dp/dr, another one told me "Who diagnosed you? You don't have anything". So
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"You don't have anything". Haha, well done therapist.

The neurologist refuses to even test me because, based on what my doctor told them in the referral letter, my symptoms of long term dp/dr and depression aren't enough to point to a neurological disorder. Hopefully, in time, I will agree with them. I've always had major anxiety issues. Anxiety is a difficult condition to treat though, especially when dp/dr is a symptom.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm sick of hearing these f*****g doctors never giving people an answer, I am in the same situation as you, I am so sorry you are lumped with shit ignorant doctors.

The fact your EEG is normal 100% rules out everything serious, I promise you.

Can you remember how your symptoms started and when? Any history of drugs? "Medication" history (sorry I hate the word medication, none of it works and it is not medication, it is DRUGS that alter and change physiology.

I wish I could help you, try to have a read over my posts, hopefully it is reassuring as I have been to the ER about 60 times now, my heart stays at 140 for days, they can't find anything wrong with me.

I am making them refer me to a cardiologist because of wild springs with my blood pressure.

I promise you your normal EEG rules out everything, so many of these "doctors" seem like untrained random people picked up from the street, throw you on drugs that don't work for anything, sorry for being so miserable I have had it with doctors now.

I've met some very nice ones but a lot of so sarcastic and arrogant and rude b*****ds and they all have the same rancid disgusting breath! I tell them make an appointment to a dentist when they try moan at me
Omg! Thank you so much! That made me feel better! And I'm so sorry you are in the same boat as me.

And no, no "medication" history. I was in a total paranoid state 24/7 back then. So much fear. Irrational fear. So, it makes logical sense that I got dp/dr. Cause my brain just couldn't take it anymore. And after that no fear whatsoever. So, I guess it could have been anxiety the first time.

Right now, the only thing that bothers me really is visual snow and light sensitivity. Everything else I can handle at this point.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You are more than welcome honestly never need to thank me. Did you ever drink alcohol at all? Mine all seemed to start from alcohol, I have stopped for 5 months but feel only a little bit better, I woke up one day with this DP/DR. I wish I could explain but honestly
You'll have to have a read over my posts because I literately have 1000 symptoms, I'll copy my recent post of symptoms I think I listed everything there.

Past few days I literately can't even explain how I feel, except for being asleep with my eyes open and like I am walking in front or behind of myself, whole body feels weightless and like hollow as if I have no muscle at all.

With the visual symptoms a few weeks back I got up one morning and honestly, I felt like my whole vision was lagging as in a video game with like frame rates! Made me call an ambulance straight away, doctors told me my eyes were fine, again. Sort of like watching a video and being in a video game. I think it all comes down to hyper awareness and obsessive monitoring of absolutely everything.

But what I don't agree with is therapists and doctors saying "it's your thoughts causing these symptoms" I gave up with therapy myself. Nobody will ever ever know that it is not us causing our symptoms by thinking, we can't help what we have at all, and all they say is "take a deep breath" we have anxiety, I wish I could help but honestly keep thinking of your normal EEG, that is the best test ever. I've not had an EEG but have had a brain scan, which was normal. I would love an EEG but they won't do one on me.

Just try to remember and keep telling yourself your EEG is normal. Honestly I think an EEG is better than brain scans because an EEG shows the actual activity and what is going on with the brain.

Go to the ER as many times as you want to, and when they tell you that you are fine just try to remember that, but I promise you I know that you will get new different symptoms everyday, it's why I go to the ER so much because I always have something completely new and am so so convinced that time is when I am going to die, then I go to the ER and once again all tests come back normal.

Sorry about talk of doctors being picked up from the street but I promise any doctor will not discharge you from the ER if there was something wrong with you.

My symptoms:

Feeling like I am possessed
Constant panic attacks
Constant Sinus Tachycardia Heart Rate 64-130 (Hit 150 in ambulance today)
Feeling like I am "possessed"
Feeling like someone is controlling my thoughts
Feeling like someone is controlling my body and my actions
Sweaty ice cold hands veins disappear then come back and go warm
"Vibrating buzzing in random muscles all over my body"
Sweating
No idea how I am making my own actions
Feeling dead
In a nightmare
Spaced out, horrible trance
Like I am high on cannabis without the nice effects
Like a robot, an alien
Random 30 second moments of freak out and shouting "WTF is this"
Constantly crying until I have no tears left
Fingers going numb when typing
"Arms and legs fallen off"
Floating, no weight to my body at all
Heart racing so easily and even more when walking, sitting forward, breathing
Feeling like I am dying 24/7, feelings get more extreme
Looking at everything and can't absorb anything
Like there is a "wall" in front of me
In a bubble, trapped
Extreme restlessness that comes in attacks then somehow goes then comes back
Tics
Feeling like I am sinking and going down an elevator
Feeling like I am falling through the sky
Going completely braindead, can't think of anything
Can't make sense of anything
Eyes wandering
Whirly, wavy vision
Going white in my face often, everyone stares in shock horror
Feeling "me" come back into my conscious and freaking out for seconds
Walking feels weird, like robotic
Minutes ago feel like years ago
Weird sense of being stuck in same moment, past moments don't seem to of happened
Not knowing how I have got to places, how I have made decisions
Extreme agitation
No, I never had a problem with alcohol.

"being asleep with my eyes open" this is how I always explain my overall state!!

And I woke up with dp/dr one day, as well.

The thought that helps me is that there are other people who will be with me if it gets worse. I just keep telling myself that. Even if they won't find anything (again). There will be someone next to me, either a doctor or a family member.

And I had/have several similar symptoms, so you are definitely not alone!

What helped me most is trying to make sense out of everything. Like I remember I couldn't figure out how breathing works. Like I couldn't understand how when I breathe in my stomach expands and when I breathe out it contracts. I was breathing and looking at my stomach for solid 10 minutes and I couldn't figure out the pattern. And at some point, it started to drive me to crazy so I focused on something else. Like I repeated to myself "this is the floor", or "this is an apple". I felt like I saw everything for the first time, so I had to reteach myself. It was scary but I had a mantra "everything is okay". That's why watching cartoons really helped me, cause there was an easy language I could understand. Everything is simple and light.

Even now I have faith in "everything is okay" even if I don't feel like it. By trying rationally talk to myself it gets much much better. Thinking something like "oh, I feel this way cause my brain is trying to protect me". I feel like treating your body/mind like it's your friend is super helpful. Cause you're feeling like it can't turn against you. It's always on your side. Even if you don't really understand it.
 

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ophthalmology or Neurology? What's the argument here.? I didn't know much about anything at age 17, I didn't know I suffered brain damage after smoking cannabis and having seizures. But, I would figure it out over the next 40 years.

I studied electronics and learned how cathode ray tubes, using either a raster or vector mapping, could paint a picture on a TV

Video modulates a carrier frequency, vestibular side band transmission occurs and the receiving antenna

rips the video off of the carrier and separates the red blue green signals and routes them to separate cathodes from whence they are projected through a triad mask onto a phosphorous screen. Viola! A moving picture appears!

Of course, this got me wondering about the similar biological system that was responsible for creating a moving image on my brain. A process that had been affected by the seizures I had, in a way I would come to describe as DR.

The eye is a camera with a lens. The retina converts the signals from the rods and cones and sends them into the brain for processing. Unlike the image on a TV, the image in your brain will not be complete until it has been "colored"

with emotional context, after memory has been accessed to see how relevant is this thing we are viewing. Neurology would work the channel from the retina into the brain. Short of seeing a lesion or tumor, what would you expect from neurology?

Not much, I would think. So, there has to be some software in chemical and electrical form, that accomplishes the processing of your eye's image. These processes occur in the temporal lobe of the brain. Scientists state that the temporal lobe

"is exquisitely prone to insult". In other words, you can screw up its operations rather easily. Ingest toxins, screw around with psychotics, or allow yourself to suffer extreme abuse, and you can insult your temporal lobe.

Insulting the temporal lobe can cause significant dysfunction. I lost my emotions. Without emotional coloring, my family seemed alien. My dog seemed alien. I had a picture, but it was bland and empty. It was also jumpy like a slide show for

a good while following those seizures. They had no idea how to fix a problem in neurological processing of your video information 40 years ago, and I bet they have little understanding of this process today. I got about 80% of my emotions back,

and my DR either went away entirely, or got significantly better until I no longer noticed it, or most likely a combination of the two. Lucky for me, I kept plodding along and allowed time to do what it could to heal me. If I had allowed myself to

lay on the couch, I would have been there for 40 years. The brain has plasticity. You're young and otherwise healthy. Stay on the horse if you can and hope for the best. What else can one do?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Omg. "This is the floor this is an apple"

Can I please ask you, did you feel like you didn't know what they were but you deep down did? That was my first ever symptom, back in the summer, I looked at my fan and for some reason was like "that's a fan, you know what it is" then looked at my TV "yeah that's a TV"

I knew what they are but why on earth would I question things like that? Very hard to explain. But wow that was definitely where this all began for me, like complete brain damage or going psychotic I thought.
I didn't question why I had to teach myself what things were all over again. I just felt like I had to do it to feel better. And as years went on I became kinda chill with the whole situation. I don't know, I just got that fundamental level of "dp/dr can't hurt me. It's not there to hurt me. It's there to protect me." I had to convince myself over and over and at one point it just stuck. Yeah, it can feel weird. Yeah, it can feel confusing. But it's not there to hurt me. I stopped giving all of the symptoms so much value. I'm like "oh well, I guess this is how life is now. cool"
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The mental and physical are connected. Despite this, psychs often neglect the physical, and physicians often neglect the psychological.

MDs might be able to rule out some specific causes, so you should look into that. It makes sense to differentiate between DP triggered by migraines, for instance, because there's treatment and diagnosis available to people who have migraines.

I think our urge to label and categorize everything, even things we don't understand, can be a weakness.
I think we try to label everything to feel better. To feel connected. To know we are not alone and someone out there is experiencing the same things we do. We are just so scared to feel alone. But sometimes we have to just to okay with whatever is. Cause we're all human. We can't experience something super extraordinary. We have human issues no matter what. Nothing that out of the box.
 

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I was speaking from my experience. Of course, many doctors are smart and many focus on psychology, but not all.
Really? You haven't been accused of being a hypochondriac or heard the mantra "it's in your head" or "it's anxiety", at least implicitly? Attributing everything to anxiety/psychology seems to be very common from what I've seen/read.
 

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"So, why on earth would you question things?" Consider that what you "see" is actually a composite....an integration of several processes. The seeing just gives you video, as would a video camera. By itself, the video is just meaningless video. (ophthalmology). It's a biological and technological feat of the eye to create the image, but it is still just an image. (neurology) Your mind has to access memory and ask "is it a friendly image, or a threatening image. How do I feel about this image, based on my experience with this specific image, or similar images". If you only have the seeing function, then you are left wondering what the image should mean to you. I explained that my parents and dog seemed alien. Intellectually, I recognized them, but I didn't "feel" like they were my parents. My perception of my parents lacked emotional context. That was missing because my temporal lobe was dysfunctional at the time and could not integrate the emotional into the purely visual. And, yes. I had to question why my parents didn't seem like my parents anymore. I had to question a lot of stuff. I finally resolved to rely on my intellect and I said to myself that I have to go forward without the emotions. I was a Vulcan for a long time until my brain slowly shifted back to 80% normal.

But, things are different when you are missing something from the composite visual package, and it will cause you to question what you are seeing. IMHO. And, you should see some of the problems you can cause in a video picture by tweaking seemingly very minor things. lol
 

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That's a very interesting question. I was heretofor unfamiliar with the existence of such a disorder. So, a Capgras delusion is a psychiatric disorder in which a person holds a delusion that a friend, spouse, parent, or other close family member (or pet) has been replaced by an identical impostor.

If you are missing the emotional component of the "visual package" I refer to, then everyone you meet will be much more a stranger to you than before you lost that component. In other words, it wouldn't be a selective condition where you might assume your mother is a replicant, but your brothers and sisters are not.

But, if this condition exists, then maybe it is possible to lose a specific portion of emotional memory identified with an individual, such that only that individual seems a stranger. From there, I suppose one could surmise the familiar has been substituted, rather than recognize it is more of a failure to identify than a change in identity.
 

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Right. When I got to the point where I had to choose.....did something happen to the world or did something happen to me, my intellect said the problem was most likely with me. It wasn't so obvious a choice at the time. By making the right choice, I believe I staved off psychosis. Had I decided I was

OK and the world had gone strange, I would have been delusional.

I decided that my severe temporal lobe seizures (over 30 epileptic discharges in 3 minutes) had altered my perception of self (DP) and altered my perception of environment (DR), and that is how I arrive at my definitions of DP/DR.

I haven't been able to find a lot information on the web about epileptic discharges. It is literally like your brain is repeatedly shorting out. I would get a tensing sensation for 4 or 5 seconds in the left rear of my brain. The tensing was like a clock spring being wound.

When it got overwound, it sprang in an electric shock that convulsed my vision as if I was suddenly looking through the wrong end of binoculars. At the same time, my mind convulsed at the shock. What was happening during the tensing was that my neurons

were charging up like two plates of a capacitor. Once the amplitude of the charge exceeded the dielectric, the neurons arc over and neutralize each other. Each discharge is like nothing you've ever experienced before. To have them just keep coming, over and over

was a nightmare for many years. The longest 3 minutes of my life. I would have thrown myself from a tall building before allowing myself to endure another minute of that shit. I should have been unconscious, but I believe the cannabis I had smoked kept me conscious for the show.
 

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By this, do you mean that they will refer everybody to psychology when they inevitably find nothing physically wrong?
Yeah, more or less that. They might not even make a serious attempt to diagnose anything physical because they've written you off as a hypochondriac. So yeah, I'd say it's anything but neglecting the psychological when they seem to be bent on attributing your non-obvious illness to psychology.
 
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