Depersonalization Support Forum banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
441 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is it just an illusion? ...Thinking that I may be able to control all this? All the problems I have caused to myself and to people around me? That in fact it is a matter of choice? That I am just playing foolish games that I don't want to quit?

Anyone else gets these ideas? I just got a lot more of this right now.

Or it's just questions in which I don't have an answer (the things that trouble me). But then, maybe I should. And maybe I can.

Any thoughts welcome. Any.
 
G

·
I often wonder to myself how it is possible that one person can bring this on by themselves with just a disorted way of thinking. I have a hard time excepting that it is just DP that is causing me to feel this well and not some other greater source that I have no control over. Is this what you mean, or I am out in left field again?. I'll talk to you later.
Kate
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,141 Posts
My therapist was just telling me again today that I'm like this because of my distorted thinking. It's hard for me to believe also. I keep trying to explain to him that the DP is just there, but he doesn't get it.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,345 Posts
I feel like I have a major illness but I can never quite pin it down. The more I try to figure out what my mental problem is the harder it gets to figure out. I used to drive myself nuts trying to figure out what is wrong with myself. A few times I even resorted to banging my head into a wall to try and snap myself back into this world, it never worked.

Is it just an illusion? ...Thinking that I may be able to control all this? All the problems I have caused to myself and to people around me? That in fact it is a matter of choice? That I am just playing foolish games that I don't want to quit?
I think Brainsilence is on to something, in a way it is an illusion, and the harder we squint our eyes to try and see what is not there, the more power the illusion has over us.
If we turn and look in the opposite direction the illusion will disappear, or at least we wont notice it anymore.

Quit feeding the illusion and it will leave you.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,197 Posts
peacedove said:
My therapist was just telling me again today that I'm like this because of my distorted thinking. It's hard for me to believe also. I keep trying to explain to him that the DP is just there, but he doesn't get it.
Therapists and doctors don't say things without having good reasons for doing so. Perhaps you could ask them why they say what they say, and why they think the way they do about the issue. Then, perhaps, they will tell you about the research and experience that they, as professionals, know about and have read themselves.

If you know intellectually about why professionals tell you what they do, perhaps you could find reason to trust them.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
441 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
WhereamI said:
I often wonder to myself how it is possible that one person can bring this on by themselves with just a disorted way of thinking.
Hmm... quite an issue, discovering what is the real cause of the condition. If I am having a problem because I do something wrong (or I am thinking something wrong), then it only requires to think differently. How do I find the thoughts that cause me the condition? Maybe if I try to memorize the thoughts that I have during my bad moments. Then, I can try to investigate my thoughts. See what other thoughts are related to those, and follow a chain, that literally has no end, and connects to a (big) number of other things. But I am usually quite tired to do this. Check this one please: http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=40019

WhereamI said:
I have a hard time excepting that it is just DP that is causing me to feel this well and not some other greater source that I have no control over. Is this what you mean, or I am out in left field again?. I'll talk to you later.
Kate
Yes. I also believe that DP/DR is a product, and not a producer. That is, DP/DR is not a cause, it is only caused by other things. But the loger it remains present inside me (meaning the subject), it starts to involve in the procedure that makes me miserable. Maybe, after a while (the "while" depends on the person and the conditions), DP/DR gets its own essence inside me (the subject). And that's where things get complicated, because, it has eventually... become a producer. Ah well...

Kate, I am not sure what "out in left field" means, but if you mean "if I got the point", then yes, you always understand me :)
 
G

·
To the question if this is all a illusion
I realy believe it is.
I mean we live in our world in ours mind.
We project everything we see each of us for diferent reasons i know i do that.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,197 Posts
You are not consciously doing this to yourself. You are not to be blamed for the way you feel. You haven't done anything wrong. You are not the cause of trouble for people or for yourself. But your brain is malfunctioning. There are methods of addressing the malfunction that have been discussed widely on this forum.
 
G

·
Okay. DP according to Janine Baker, lol

No, the experience of BEING Depersonalized is not an illusion. There is something very real that happens inside the mind once we start watching ourselves SO closely. Dp itself, the first blip of it, is a transitory state - it lasts a few seconds and wafts off. We, however, being the way we are, become so IMMERSED in the terrifying and odd experience that it's like we CATCH the dp by the tail and tie it down to the porch. It would have been a high flying bird that moved past the window almost as fast as one could notice it, but we became/become so REACTIVE to the sudden disorientation that we have tied it to our way of being.

The continual inward looking (self-monitoring, ruminations, questioning/pondering meaning of reality, etc.) LOCKS it in as the main way of consciousness. It's as if we have taken an ALTERED and highly temporary state of consciousness and NAILED it into place as our default.

It's not that we WANT to be dp'd, but we are so misguided - and simultaneously so stubborn - we insist on doing this OUR way, to insist upon trying to find the answer, to grasp our condition, to watch ourselves as we experience it and to try to watch ourselves get OUT of it....and that is precisely what keeps us IN it.

Yes, something physical happens in the mind when anyone locks into an altered state of consciousness. But that does not mean that anything was/is WRONG with the way the brain works. Meds sometimes help simply because they can force the mind to LET go of the obsessing for a bit - and that relaxes the self enough to allow the ordinary state of consciousness to return for a bit. But if we KEEP obsessing and self-monitoring, no med in the world can counteract it.

IMagine that you went to the doctor for profuse bleeding on your legs. You say the problem is the bleeding and ask for somethign to stop the bleeding. Turns out, you are taking little needles and scratching your legs several times a day. What med is going to stop this pesky blood from dripping down your pants?

WE MUST FORCE OURSELVES to direct all our psychic energy and cognitive attention to ANYTHING besides the self (and our symptoms and how we feel). That includes putting attention away from the questions about the meaning of existence, infinity, reality, etc....

IF we can force our attention away from self - and do it LONG enough and CONSISTENTLY enough - chances are the dp will fade.

But....we, stubborn to our core, do not want to do it that way. We want to find out WHY the dp is here, what causes dp, what dp 'means' and how to understand it and explain it in detail to the professional we believe should be able to take it away. THAT DOES NOT WORK.

But all that said, DP is not "illusion" - it is real. We alter our own brain chemistry when we become severely symptomatic - anxiety, depression, obsessive rumination, etc....ALL those including DP can make the brain react differently than it used to. But that change is not permanent.

I am telling you, people, the more you surrender to being fascinated with your symptoms, the harder it is going to be to get out of it. We need to say "wow, this is so creepy.." and then no more. FORCE attention onto something else...even if you continue to feel horrific.

That is the way out.

ANd.........I know that is not the way out that we WANT.
I was as stubborn as you guys. And I paid the price, too.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,345 Posts
Thanks Janine, that was a good post but now I am a little scared.

You say that there is something wrong with our brain chemistry and our thoughts can turn that around.

I have gotten very very good at focusing my attention away from the dp/dr feeling but the nightmare won't go away. Is there a possibility that my brain chemistry is so screwed up that no amount of positive thinking will fix it? Is it possible to be doomed to this disorder forever?

It's as if we have taken an ALTERED and highly temporary state of consciousness and NAILED it into place as our default.
Yeah and I seem to have lost my hammer, how do I get the nail out?
 
G

·
No - there is NOT something Wrong with your brain chemistry.

The reason most of us CHANGE the way our own minds would normally work is related to our personality/character and defensive structures. We are not the "type of people" who can feel the disorientation and unreal horror of something like DP and then turn AWAY from it (to allow the state to pass). We were for a long time SO obsessed with self-control, and so mindful of how we came across, of watching ourselves MUCH more than any regular person would do....so when somethign like DP lands on us, we inadvertently do exactly the opposite of what we SHOULD have done. We tune INTO it even further - and the long winding road to the abyss begins.

That is NOT because there was/is anything wrong with your brain - but our personality structures were setting us up for bigtime problems later on (such as when we broke down, had an onslaught of anxiety or encountered dp).

Just FORCE yourself to think about anything besides yourself. It's the hardest damn thing you'll ever do. And it will "cure' you.

Peace,
Janine

p.s. IMPORTANT: it's not about "positive" thinking. I was never positive, lol..I was bitter and terrified and enraged. You don't need to think "I will get better, I am okay.." LOL....just think about ANYTHING ELSE besides your own condition and/or the existential type questions we are so obsessed with. NORMAL thoughts - forcing your attention to stuff outside of yourself...and allow the mind to return to its default.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
323 Posts
I really believe this whole DP/DR is NOT an Illusion, yet I do believe that the less time we actually think about it the more time we can spend living. I have only seen a few people on here that actually can't function, like go to work etc, most all of the rest function even with the anxiety that builds up to the dp/dr.

Example Last night I was in a meeting , The place was Hot, the lights were our favorite FLOURESCENT or however you spell it.... I was beginning to want to leave the scene, but I forced myself to stay through every awful second and tried... tried mind you to focus on the meeting.. The symptom tried to take it over but I kept replacing my focus on the meeting.. I do believe that we also often trade one obsesson for another... I have been really obssessed about my physical health lately where before the focus was mental health. Either way it is obsessive thinking and anxiety that is keeping me in the state I am in.

I still compare and check ... Am I better today then yesterday... etc... Trying to break that habbit is hard. but I see the difference when I am succesful at focusing on other things and not checking

KC
 

· Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
Janine, it's amazing how you seem to impress me with every post,how you continue to find news ways of explaining this! Bravo!

Let me ask you this then in response to what you have written here;

Does this mean that everyone at some point or another experiences DP/DR it's just us that want to know "what was that" that continue to suffer while "normal" people just say "that was weird" and carry on?

SP
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,345 Posts
Janine, it's amazing how you seem to impress me with every post,how you continue to find news ways of explaining this! Bravo!
Bravo Bravo!
Janine you are very helpfull, thanks!
I will buy your books as soon as I get some money.

Does this mean that everyone at some point or another experiences DP/DR it's just us that want to know "what was that" that continue to suffer while "normal" people just say "that was weird" and carry on?
Good question SillyPutty.

No - there is NOT something Wrong with your brain chemistry.
So if we change our thinking we will positively get better right?
Janine I am also wondering if you ever feel dp/dr yourself anymore?
 
G

·
"Does everyone (normal folks) experience DP from time to time?"

and the answer is: who knows?

The LARGER question and answer is this: why do we care? The truth is that SOME normal people have felt it, and it seems to usually occur in highly bizarre circumstances (a car wreck, a trauma of some kind, or something GOOD but shocking and mind-bending like winning a million dollar lottery). We cannot afford to care if EVERYone experiences it. We must force ourselves not to be so mesmerized by it - and clearly, it's HARD because look at ME, lol.....no symptoms and still I'm obsessed with it! But you, if you have symptoms right now, cannot AFFORD the luxury of the obsessing.

And no, I don't have any dp or dr experiences at all anymore. The closest I came was FEARING that it could return when I was facing an emergency medical procedure years ago - worrying that being drugged semi-conscious and/or anethesia, etc...but I was not actually dp'd - just feared I COULD be (and that has been the only time I've felt like it would be possible to fall into it again). On 9/11, I was at work mid-town in New York City and had to walk many blocks along with HUNDREDS and hundreds of terrified and worried people...it was just surreal, but honestly DP did not enter my mind. FEAR did, lol....but while the entire experience was "unreal" feeling, it didn't actually feel DP (makes sense to ME, not sure if that will to anyone else or not)

Take care,
Janine
 

· Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
So..not to beat a dead horse but,

then how do we get it to go away permanently and NEVER come back. For example, I have felt really good for months now but I have felt really good for months at a time before. Back and forth ya know, how do we know when it's gone for good or just temporarilly?What's the dividing line?

SP
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,197 Posts
then how do we get it to go away permanently and NEVER come back. For example, I have felt really good for months now but I have felt really good for months at a time before. Back and forth ya know, how do we know when it's gone for good or just temporarilly?What's the dividing line?
Only you know what caused it to go away before. Whatever you changed in your way of thinking or your way of being in the world -- make that change permanent.

You are the only person with the answer to your question. The key to that answer is the answer to this question: What made it go away before? How'd it happen?

Your question is also something you'd discuss in therapy, too, so if you are in therapy now, talk to your therapist about it.
 
G

·
Well, that's a damn good question, lol...and I don't know how to tell anyone to accomplish that except through long-term therapy. Clearly, what we were doing was not working. A breakdown and symptoms will not come from NOTHING...we may have felt fine, or often felt GREAT much of the time before all this started, but we really can't go right back to the same way of being once something this drastic has occurred.

Remember, as said above, the reason some people lock into the dp experience is directly connected to how they do EVERYthing - we were always obsessive, always self-monitoring, always concerned re: is this really me? or is this a mask? etc...the way we were set the stage for this whole horror show.

In order to not keep having recurring symptoms, or breakdowns, we have to learn enough about ourselves and the defenses we erected to hide from ourselves in the first place. That's not a quick process, needless to say.

But we didn't "get" DP one day because we just thought too much at the wrong moment...it was years in the making. And it can be well worth it to really take a good, long hard look at Self in a therapy situation - the more we can learn to understand how our own mind works, and the things we've done, the repeated patterns we have invested in over and over....things that SEEM like they have NOTHING to do with DP and anxiety, but that DO in the sense that they are part of the intrinsic Self and its defenses.....

We cannot fix one tiny chip in the structure - the DP part - and then happily go back to however we were before. It's an UNRAVELING (that's why I took that word for my book)....the entire Structure of the personality/Ego has to be explored and rewoven in a way....or the DP 'thread' stays in there waiting to spring.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
431 Posts
I think that the main key is to not look at DP as something magical or sinister. As much as you feel like it's not - reality isn't too far away. Yes, it's gonna take a long hard road to feel the way you used to, but if you can keep trudging through the muck, you'll be out before you realize it.

Analyzing yourself and your thoughts don't help anything.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top