[BetterHealth23]

Hi all,

I have followed this forum on and off for several years, after experiencing a short but severe episode of dp/dr. I began having panic attacks and extreme 24/7 anxiety after a bad reaction to cannabis in 2012, which had no rational cause and was completely uncontrollable. After several months of debilitating anxiety which stopped me attending lectures or living any kind social life, I fell into a severe state of dp/dr. During this point i had no further panic attacks, but my symptoms were so severe in respect of cognitive abilities and quality of life, I became obsessed with finding a solution. I was extremely fortunate, that within a month of dp/dr onset, I achieved COMPLETE remission of both dp/dr and anxiety, with a supplement containing magnesium, zinc and vitamin b6.

However, despite completing eliminating my anxiety and dp/dr, I was left with (what I believe to be) a very imbalanced nervous system which is incredibly reactive to stress. Following the resolution of symptoms, I started going back to the gym to continue weight training (it was my only hobby and I had enjoyed training 4-5 times a week for several years prior), only to find that after several weeks of continuous training I would become increasingly anxious, moody and overstimulated, before eventually I would experience severe OCD, panic attacks and insomnia. Being so sleep deprived, I would stop my gym regimen, and within 2 weeks the anxiety and insomnia would completely resolve again. It took me nearly 2 years of going through this cycle of gym, anxiety, stop, resolve, repeat, before I finally realised that weight training was off the cards with my nervous system as it was. After a long period of stress relating to work and my personal life, the condition has become so severe, that going on a diet (calorie restriction) also causes these symptoms to surface, meaning my weight has increased dramatically in the last 2 years. This has left me with a very strong desire to understand my symptoms and ultimately make a full recovery.

I've become very interested in the Stellate Ganglion Block as a potential option. It seems it shows great efficacy where individuals show symptoms of 'sympathetic nervous system overdrive', and I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford the treatment in Bristol, should I be accepted as a patient. I'm currently trying some other approaches first, which mainly revolve around various supplements (phosphatadylserine, adaptogens, lithium orotate), but if these options do not work or improve my situation, I will be looking to get a SGB in the very near future. I will be sure to keep people posted of my progress, including any conversations I have with the clinic in Bristol.

 

[BetterHealth23]

Hi all,

Today I contacted the clinic in Bristol and booked a SGB for next Tuesday. As promised, I will outline the conversations I had throughout the course of the day. When I first called, a man answered the phone and after explaining I was interested in a SGB for PTSD, told me that he'd have a colleague call me back within the next couple of hours. I did receive a call a couple of hours later from a woman, she told me that I could have the consultation and injection(s) completed on the same day and told me that she'd get a colleague to send an email with more details before we booked anything because "it gets quite complicated, with different levels and I don't really understand it". An hour later, I received the email below:

"Thanks for your telephone call today regarding the stellate ganglion block for PTSD. Injections can be done on the same day as consultation.

Costs are as follows:

Consultation fee: £275

C6 block under ultrasound: £795

C3 block under ultrasound: additional £200

C7 block under ultrasound: additional £200"

I then called back and informed the clinic that I was interested in booking an appointment for the SGB. It was the same man who initially answered the phone, so he told me that again, a colleague would call me back. I was then called by the woman who had taken the second call. I told her I was keen to go ahead for the SGB, and she gave me appointment times. All booked for 6pm next Tuesday. Given it was a later appointment, I asked whether I'd be able to get a consultation and a potential 3 shots all in one session. She explained that 'The doctor will do whatever needs to be done, before you leave that appointment'. That was enough reassurance for me, so I've booked it all in and am just about to pay the £275 consultation fee in advance. A very good friend is driving me to Bristol and back, plus I'm booking a hotel for the night, given that I may not be out until 8-9pm (assuming they will do 3 injections).

Overall, it seems like the admin staff have little knowledge of the procedures, but I have faith that the Dr knows what needs to be done. I know that a lot of people are curious about the results of this procedure and how the Bristol clinic operates, so I will try and get as much footage on my GoPro as possible throughout the day itself. Let's hope it works!

 

[BetterHealth23]

Thanks!

I think at this stage, it's best to have a good discussion with the Dr during the consultation, and understand exactly how the procedure is performed.

I believe that Lipov has done the C6, C3 & C7 combination in the past, so I'm not too skeptical about seeing all 3 injection prices listed out in the email. Although Lipov has probably done more of these injection for PTSD than any other practitioner in the world, I still think this is all experimental and I'm not going to be put off based on what's noted in the email.

 

[BetterHealth23]

I think that Lipov used to inject C6 with a lesser amount (probably 3.cl as with a standard SGB for pain), then & only then would he inject C7. However, I believe he now finds that if he injects C6 with 7.cl, then there is no need to inject C7 at all. The fact that Dr Krishna at the Bristol Pain Spa is offering to give all three injections including a C7, even though he's reportedly injecting C6 with 7.cl, is the thing that's ringing alarm bells for me. If someone responds to C6, then they don't need C3, & if someone responds to C3 after a failed C6, then they don't need a C7. And, giving someone a C7 after injecting C6 with 7.cl is imho a potential disaster waiting to happen.

There was a bad review of Dr Krishna online where someone said he was trying to push injections that were not needed: https://www.google.c...z/data=!3m1!4b1

Hmmm...

True, I definitely see where you're coming from. However, that's not to say that the procedure will not work. During the initial consultation, I will be having a long conversation with the Dr and asking plenty of questions, including how much medication will be injected at C6 etc. If I don't feel the method is in line with expectation, I will happily walk out of the clinic without having an SGB.

You have to remember that this is private treatment. I'm sure the Dr is open to the patients desires, much more so than when you get treatment on the NHS and you 'get what you're given'.

 

[BetterHealth23]

I had an adverse reaction to this procedure..

just want you all to know that there is a very real risk and danger to this and besides the possiblity of it working and the huge costs there is also the chance of everything becoming way worse

I'm really sad to hear that not only has the procedure not worked, but has made you feel worse! Could you provide more detail on how it has made you feel worse? Somebody mentioned an inability to not feel your body. Is this in a physical sense or in a more mental sense? I only ask because given the nature of the medication involved, a numbing effect across the body could be a temporary (albeit undesirable) side effect.

It would be useful to understand the complications, so everyone can make a more educated decision about whether to get an SGB or not.

 

[BetterHealth23]

Hi all,

I just wanted to give a quick update.

I'm all booked in for a SGB at the Bristol clinic tomorrow (technically today) at 6pm. As promised, I will try to get as much footage on my GoPro as possible, before and treatment. At the very least, I will report back on my experience at the Bristol clinic, including the method used by the Dr, and also the positive/negative effects of the procedure.

I also just wanted to add my personal opinion, having read about the adverse reaction experienced by another user and the general attitude of some members on the forum:

If you truly want to recover from DP (or indeed achieve any goal), sometimes you'll need to expose yourself to risks. Even something as basic as trying a new supplement carries risks. That could range from diarrhoea, worsened DP, anxiety, to allergic reactions etc.

I know how terrifying it is to experience debilitating DP. I had it bad, like many people on this forum, and I only found my personal fix, by taking on some risks. I spent money on supplements, some of which were a complete waste of money. I tried medications, which were also a waste of money. I spent time at a private hospital getting treatment, again a complete waste of time (although admittedly not money as I was very fortunate to be covered by insurance from my Dad's employer). Bottom line is, doing the same thing doesn't tend to yield a different result. If you've had DP for a long time, I'm very doubtful that you will recover by taking the same courses of action, day in day out.

It's true, for every success story, you're going to hear a 'this ruined my life' story. Start with the lower risk and cheaper options, and work your way up, until you find something that helps you. Be positive, believe in recovery and believe in achieving what you desire. Start visualising yourself happy, free of DP, in a good place. If you're yet to try this, you might be surprised to find it's usually 50% of achieving your goals in life.

I know it's hard to be positive when you're going through an extremely taxing time (any chronic illness counts for this), but that's often the difference between recovering and not recovering. If this procedure doesn't work, I won't give up. I will keep working towards a solution for my problems, even if it kills me. I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.

 

[BetterHealth23]

Hi all,

Unfortunately, myself and my friend were a little too busy today to capture any real footage. Nonetheless, I will detail today's experience while it is fresh in my head.

I got to the Bristol clinic at around 5.45pm ahead of my 6pm appointment. The surgery isn't solely a private clinic, there are lots of individuals there to see their regular GP. Dr Krishna's nurse came out to meet me at approximately 6.05pm and they asked me to come through for initial consultation in one of the GP style rooms.

In my honest opinion, Dr Krishna was great. I have absolutely zero affiliation with him, but I had a very positive experience. He asked me about my medical history and symptoms, before we discussed the SGB procedure in more detail. He made it very clear that he injects 7ml of anaesthetic into C6 using ultrasound guidance. He then recommended that I wait 30-60 minutes before deciding on whether I choose a C3 injection (and subsequently a C7 injection). He made it very clear that I should dictate the number of injections and he was happy to stay until all injections were completed. He made it very clear that it was always my decision as to whether I wanted another injection, and he recommended I stop after I experience some kind of symptom relief or feel better.

He noted that many patients come in absolutely adamant that they need 2-3 injections after reading online and that although he tries to deter them, ultimately he wants to go on the patients guidance. He noted that even though many patients have positive reactions to C6 (and C3), they will insist on more injections, hoping to gain a greater positive effect.

Both Dr Krishna and his nurse made me feel very comfortable before, during and after the procedure. I was made aware of all potential risks of the procedure and signed a consent form following this outline. I'll be totally honest, I found the procedure itself rather uncomfortable. Dr Krishna asked me to remove my top (I'm male), so long as I felt comfortable, so that he had perfect access to my neck. I then laid down flat, with a pillow underneath my back, to provide better access to the neck area. He then doused my entire neck with antiseptic, to reduce risks of infection. This was fairly cold, but not too uncomfortable. He then used ultrasound to assess the position of various arteries, nerves; and of course C6. He decided fairly quickly on the best entry route for the needle. I was then given a small amount of local anaesthetic to the skin, so I wouldn't feel the larger needle. He then informed me that he was starting to inject, so I needed to remain completely still. It went quiet for a short while and I started to feel rather anxious and panicked, I needed to swallow really badly. But I was aware I currently had a needle in my neck and any movement could lead to a potential disaster. They asked how I was doing and I used my left hand to signal I wasn't doing so great. I then put my hand up as if to say 'take the needle out now', and the nurse held my hand gently and reassured me I'm ok and that the needle was out. Apparently he wasn't 100% happy with his first attempt at positioning for injection, so wanted to try a second time. Then he warned me to stay still again and inserted the needle a second time. As he reassured me I was doing great, I could feel the liquid entering my neck. After a minute or two, we were all done.

Within seconds of sitting up on the table, my right eye began to droop heavily and I could also feel a heaviness in my neck, face and even a little of my upper gum (or so it felt). I also felt a little nauseous and out of it for a few minutes. I felt uncomfortable and a little anxious at this point. Dr Krishna and the nurse began talking to me, just generally about how I was feeling and generally about life 'do you have any siblings etc'. Within around 15 minutes it was extremely obvious that I felt totally relaxed and had become very talkative. It was really quite lovely. I told them that I'd decided to stick with the C6 injection for now and would happily stay in touch to let them know how I progress. I was not pushed into getting further injections and Dr Krishna said I had been very sensible in making this decision. He also told me (after I asked) that a follow up C3 or C7 injection would still be £200, whether I had it done today or another time and I would not pay another consultation fee. On that note, I decided to call it a day. I had a final chat with the nurse (she is super nice) and then made the payment or £795. I wasn't with Dr Krishna for any longer than 1.5 hours in total.

My friend then started the long drive back up the country. He noticed that I was really talkative and in a great mood, and I definitely felt it. Much less anxiety and nervousness than usual. The physical effects from the block haven't been nice, but absolutely nothing unexpected. My voice was a little hoarse but nothing crazy. My droopy eye began to normalise after around 3-4 hours. I struggled to swallow anything apart from water for about 5-6 hours (don't try to eat to soon, it scared me a lot). I still have a very uncomfortable feeling in my neck, as if I've got a big bruise in the area, but to be fair, I have had 7ml of liquid injection into my neck!! In terms of mental effects, still feeling more relaxed and I'm very pleased to have had the injection. I will note that it's not a miracle cure, but it's been a nice subtle drop in anxiety and tension.

Hope this helps!! Happy to answer any questions and I will continue to post how I feel in the coming days/ weeks.

 

[BetterHealth23]

lilnewk,

Although I used to have severe DP/DR in 2012, I was able to completely reverse it using a supplement containing magnesium citrate, zinc and vitamin b6. However, I continued to have issues with sympathetic nervous system overdrive ever since going through drug induced panic attacks/DP. I was hoping the SGB would help me ease anxiety and agitation symptoms and it appears to have done just that.

Sorry I can't comment further on whether the SGB helps visual disturbance from DP. However, I have previously experienced visual disturbance from DP and I know that calming the nervous system was paramount to this symptom (and others) dissapearing, so if your DP was induced by panic attacks and you still experience anxiery/agitation alongside DP, you MAY find relief with SGB.

 

[BetterHealth23]

I too have nervous system issues, as indicated by my username on this forum, so was very interested even beyond just the DP when this thread appeared. I have no panic attacks, & little to no anxiety, but definitely have lots of tension & some stress. Would love to know how long this ANS attenuation lasts for in your case, whether permanent/semi-permanent/temporary. Also, I wonder how long the uncomfortable neck feeling will last? Not long I hope.

Nice to hear a positive experience of Dr Krishna & the Pain Spa. I did post a link to one negative review, but that was just one out of 12 other positive ones. There are always two sides to every story, & it's always best too get to know both the positives & the negatives in order to make a balanced decision.

Awesome to hear that C6 has kind of worked for you, & am glad you're feeling somewhat better!

Thanks a lot! I'm very glad to have found positive results with just the C6 injection.

Perhaps the review was left by somebody who had chronic pain? Because he was very consistently telling me that for PTSD, he doesn't know which injections will ultimately provide relief to the patient, so he lets the patient guide him during the process. Perhaps with chronic pain he's more confident in advising the patient and pushes for more injections. End of the day though, this is a private service and you always have the right to say no! So this didn't really bother me either way.

In terms of the physical side effects, I'm still experiencing some very minor pain in the right side of my neck, but I can only feel it when I turn my neck in a certain direction at speed, no worse than a bruise. It was a very small price to pay for what I would describe as 60-70% relief of anxiety, tension and agitation.

 

[BetterHealth23]

Can you swallow normally again now? Do you have any lump in the throat type sensations? Has your DP or DR been affected either way?

That's peaked my interest in this procedure again!

The scariest part of the procedure was 100% the lump in the throat and inability to swallow. The droopy eye left after 3-4 hours so I assumed I was fine to eat. Big mistake. Even with tiny bites, I was completely unable to eat dinner and if I'd tried to eat with a large bite, I may have choked. Don't attempt eating for at least 6 hours, if you can survive longer without eating, I'd recommend it. Once I got to 6 hours post procedure, I managed to eat all my dinner with no problem at all. The only physical impact remaining is the pain in my neck. It's literally 50% of what it was yesterday and it doesn't worry me at all. I usually get pain from any injection, so it's really no surprise.

Putting a percentage on it definitely helps quantify the change. Unfortunately (you can read this above) my DP/DR symptoms were resolved a long time ago now, so I can only comment on anxiety and tension symptoms.

 

[BetterHealth23]

BetterHealth, very interesting that those supplements helped you, are you still taking them, they are very much relevant to a blood disorder known as "Pyroluria" which I was confirmed as having.. Maybe there is a connection between DP/DR, and this condition. I wrote about it on my blog here if interested:

http://healthvibed.com/my-ongoing-pyroluria-story-until-success/

Please keep us posted here on your progress mate!

That's true, zinc and vitamin b6 are recommended for those with Pyroluria. However, I tested negative for Pyroluria after doing a urine sample for biolabs. That was after stopping zinc and vitamin b6 for many months and only using magnesium citrate. When it comes to a healthy stress response, a magnesium deficiency can be crippling. I think for me personally, it made a world of difference. I struggle to think what would have become of me without finding magnesium.

2nd day since the SGB and still feeling the lowered anxiety and agitation.

 

[BetterHealth23]

Better health. You mentioned curing your DP with Magnesum , b6 and zinc. Can you tell me what kind of dosages you took?

Also Canadian here. Sent my passport renewal in. Spoke with Lipovs office. Will be flying in beginning of March to give this a shot

900mg of magnesium citrate, 60mg of zinc and approx 18mg b6 for 4 days and my DP/DR was completely gone. I then dropped my dosage in half and stayed using this for a good 3-4 years. Then I switched to just a magnesium citrate supplement at 500mg a day; which has the same effect.

 

[BetterHealth23]

I honestly dont believe this can cure DP

Stellate ganglion block or the supplements I noted above?

Either way, it's not really about what you believe, it's about what works for each person. This forum is a great platform to share what has helped one person and what MAY help another. I can list off lots of things that haven't helped me in the slightest or in fact have made me worse off in some way or another.

Each persons cause of DP will be different and way beyond that we all have different genes, different nutrient deficiencies and different lifestyles. Some people smoke weed and get DP, some people just wake up with it one day. If you google magnesium cured my DP (I just did by the way), you'll find several mentions of magnesium curing DP/anxiety.

In regards to SGB, there are already several members of this forum who found it helped there symptoms in one way or another (even if it wasn't a total cure).

Not sure on the basis of your comment, or to whom you were responding, but making comments like that with no justification, no scientific studies, no mention of personal experience; isn't very conducive to helping people on this forum.

Of course, you're more than welcome to your opinion and/or belief, but in the context of this forum; do you really need to share opinions or beliefs such as the one above?

 

[BetterHealth23]

Hi all,

I have given it a full 2 weeks post SGB, before talking in more detail about my experience. So what happened:

For roughly 4 days I felt great. My levels of anxiety and tension were much reduced and I felt very optimistic about the future. I wouldn't describe myself as depressed, but I felt more upbeat and positive.

After 4 days, something felt very wrong. I literally had a whole day of feeling extremely anxious, and I was extremely close to having a full blown panic attack while completing grocery shopping. My nervous system was so jacked up. I was literally getting anxiety over anything (exactly the same experience of while I had a huge panic attack on cannabis). I just felt like something about me or the world was wrong and was inches from descending into total panic. I was very fortunate to somehow stay calm during this time and not start believing the SGB had permanently screwed me over.

I used a combination ot mindfulness and deep breathing exercises to help calm me down and thankfully, I am now feeling 100% back to normal (pre SGB). Was it definitely the SGB? Hard to say, but I've not felt that anxious in nearly 6 years, so it's too big a coincidence for me. Will I get another SGB? No, it's not worth the risk of going through that again, even if I can't be certain it was related to the SGB. Do I advise other people not to get a SHB? Not necessarily, it may work fantastic for you. But please use all available information on this thread and make an educated decision.

 

[BetterHealth23]

I just want to update everyone. It’s now been 3 weeks since my SGB. For the first 4 days following the injection I found a 60-70% drop in my anxiety and tension levels. I can’t comment on DP levels, as at the time I had no DP. After 4 days I began having very extreme anxiety. This lasted 2 days and began to fade as I made every effort to do meditation, deep breathing and reduce other life stress. At 2 weeks post injection I thought I was completely back to baseline, but sadly I began experiencing DP (first time in a good 5-6 years) and bad anxiety again. Luckily it is beginning to shift again, but this again is with very conscious effort to relax, do things I enjoy, distract myself with tasks I find challenging etc. I certainly won’t be having another SGB and I’m curious to know whether other people have experienced this. I’m sure it will settle sooner or later. It’s weird, after having DP, anxiety and even OCD at times over the years, and seeing how I have gone from complete hell to total remission in various ways, I’m not too phased about it all.

 

[BetterHealth23]

Quick update from myself as well. I actually re-experienced DP and DR after the SGB, despite being relieved of it for 5/6 years. I also experienced extreme anxiety; and I’m still working very hard on a daily basis to keep both anxiety and DP at bay. Feeling the best I have yet since the injection sent me astray. Wasn’t worth it for 4 days of 60-70% anxiety relief. If your issue is anxiety; I’d honestly say deep breathing, mindfulness, funny tv shows, good music and relaxing warm baths will do more good than the SGB (based on my experience alone).