[Ray46]

Hi guys

I got depersonalization disorder in summer 2011 when I was 14 years old. I'm 22 now. It was brought on by an anxiety attack after I smoked weed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27612365

In this study 30 active military service members with combat-related PTSD were offered a stellate ganglion block as part of their treatment program. Patients reported greatest improvement in the first week after SGB for the following symptoms:

irritability or angry outbursts
difficulty concentrating
sleep disturbance

2 to 4 months later, patients reported greatest improvement in the following:

feeling distant or cut off
feeling emotionally numb
irritability or angry outbursts
difficulty concentrating

It is hypothesized that trauma leads to an increase in nerve growth factor in the stellate ganglion. This in turn leads to a sprouting of sympathetic nerves, which increases the production of a number of neurotransmitters, including adrenaline and norepinephrine, which makes people anxious. Stellate ganglion block leads to a reduction in nerve growth factor and sprouting of sympathetic nerves, which helps reverse trauma/anxiety symptoms.

Here is the mechanism explainted in detail:

http://assets.cureus.com/uploads/poster/file/717/PTSD_SGB_Poster.pdf

Here is some other stuff about stellate ganglion block and PTSD:

 

[Ray46]

Hey guys unfortunatley i still have moments where my depersonalization comes back but in a very controllable way; so it's not a MIRACLE CURE! Maybe I will do the procedure again haha. At least im still calm and didn't have panic attacks, nightmares, thinking im going crazy and depression since the first injection.

I also read that many patients with ptsd needed two injectionts in the neck at the same time to get the best result.

I would only recommend this procedure if your depersonalization is combinated with extreme anxiety.

Here is the newest video:

 

[Ray46]

Yes, it's very important to point out that there are several side effects & complications that can arise due to this procedure. We must do our homework first!

That's why the stellate ganglion block should be performed under an X-ray image.

 

[Ray46]

Thanks for this thread. So you now just get it in bursts, what would you say the symptoms that come back are if you don't mind?
it killed the emotional numbness i am guessing by the fact your depression is gone?

Yeah it killed my emotional numbness. Just sometimes in stressful situations the brain fog comes back but im not in panic anymore.

By the way stellate ganglion block is also used for tinnitus. So you could say to the doctor that you have an anxiety disorder which gives you tinnitus and that this procedure would be a win win situation for you because you red that it also helps with anxiety.

 

[Ray46]

Im confused....The title on this thread is..............

How an injection in the neck cured my depersonalization and severe anxiety!

But yet you just said ".........Hey guys unfortunatley i still have moments where my depersonalization comes back but in a very controllable way; so it's not a MIRACLE CURE! "

Are you "CURED" or not...

When I say cured I mean is your DP and anxiety gone COMPLETELY ?

This is gonna raise the debate of what defines cured....To me cured means that the DP goes away and doesnt come back and even more so the sufferer stops fearing it coming back...The fact is if you still fear DP coming back it means you still have anxiety about it inside you and hence you still ahve the potential inside for it to raise its ugly head...

I actually believe what has happened here is that the injection has made your DP manageable...

Sorry for being so cynic but medication keeps my DP manageable....Is this not the same thing...

My dp was gone completely for some weeks but than came back a little. The problem is i had only one shot in the neck. For long lasting results you probaly have to do a second stellate ganglion block. But anyways im happier than never before!

 

[Ray46]

Dp is a parasympathetic response. Thats why Im a bit confused. It's a numbing on all levels. I personallydont deal with much sympathetic responses I sleep all day, Im tired all day...

Actually deperszonalisation is a common symtom of an overactive sympatthetic nervous system. That's why things which ramps up the sympathetic nervous system like caffeine or drugs can make your dp worse.

 

[Ray46]

Two injections in the same place (C6), or two at different sites?

Nono not at the same place, at C6 and C3 and if this doesnt work even at C7 like the guy in this video:

 

[Ray46]

He was talking about the fact sometimes it takes 2 times(as you said). We were talking about my friend who had a C6 twice.
Did you have a C3? or just C6?

EDIT: read the thread again, you just had C6. Apart from America this C3 seems a bit illusive

Ah okay i see lol, i only had a C6. Im lucky that i responded so well only after one injection

 

[Ray46]

Here is the newest article about the stellate ganglion block for ptsd:

http://www.abc10.com/news/local/a-shot-that-could-cure-ptsd/443245816

 

[Ray46]

My only question is:

You said you that your cloudy mind became clear, but later go on to state that the dp comes back sometimes. But do you still have clarity of mind? I dont give a fuck about dp except for this symptom and if this symptom is relieved continuously I will actually pursue this treatment.

Thanks.

Yess i have this clarity of mind most of the time. Before my thougts were racing but now my mind is calm.

 

[Ray46]

Hey guys I have a question for you:

There is a study from 2003 which I think explains why my depersonalization became so much better

Basal norepinephrine in depersonalization disorder.

Simeon D, et al. Psychiatry Res. 2003.
Show full citation

Abstract
In contrast to the noradrenergic dysregulation described in PTSD, little is known regarding noradrenergic function in dissociative disorders. The purpose of this preliminary study was to investigate basal norepinephrine in depersonalization disorder (DPD). Nine subjects with DSM-IV DPD, without lifetime PTSD, were compared to nine healthy comparison (HC) subjects. Norepinephrine was measured via 24-h urine collection and three serial plasma determinations. Groups did not differ significantly in plasma norepinephrine levels. Compared to the HC group, the DPD group demonstrated significantly higher urinary norepinephrine, only prior to covarying for anxiety. The DPD group also demonstrated a highly significant inverse correlation between urinary norepinephrine and depersonalization severity (r=-0.88). Norepinephrine and cortisol levels (reported in a prior study) were not intercorrelated. We concluded that although dissociation accompanied by anxiety was associated with heightened noradrenergic tone, there was a marked basal norepinephrine decline with increasing severity of dissociation. The findings are in concordance with the few reports on autonomic blunting in dissociation and merit further investigation.

PMID 14572626 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Full text

This study says that patients with depersonalization have a higher production of norephineprine doesn't it??

So basically the stellate ganglion block BLOCKS the production of it thats why I feel so much better I think.

 

[Ray46]

where in switzerland did you get this? i asked you this question in a previous post. thanks for your help. I would like to do it as well. As I live close to switzerland it would be much easier than going to the uk. thanks in advance

I dont wanna say it cause its near my home. You can do it in France too!

 

[Ray46]

Got my blood test results back today; I don't have Raynaud's, so I can't swing an SGB for that on the NHS. However, I do have neck, shoulder, & upper back pain. So, Plan B is to exaggerate that. Found a Harley Street pain specialist who runs an NHS Pain Clinic at my local hospital. Emailed him today & he replied within minutes saying that if my GP refers me to him I can get an SGB on the NHS from him. WOOHOO! Now I need to convince my GP to refer me to him for pain, & I already have an appointment booked for Wednesday next week.

Also, my sister is a manager for a local private hospital group, & she is getting a quote together for me from her pain consultant. That's my Plan C!

But please remember my friend: many people with ptsd did only benefit with 2 injections at the same session; one at C6 and C3.

 

[Ray46]

"Are those nrs C6, C3 and C7 acupuncture points or from another classification?"

Cervical and Lumbar Sympathetic Blocks[/size]

https://neupsykey.com/cervical-and-lumbar-sympathetic-blocks/

A quite recent publication on DP says that;" We conclude that the representation of visceral-afferent neural signals at brainstem level may be deficient in DPD. This effect may be due to increased peripheral sympathetic tone or to dysregulated signal processing at brainstem level".[/size]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27078753

The PNS consists of the nerves and ganglia outside of the brain and spinal cord. That is the nerves we are talking about blokning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peripheral_nervous_system

So ist it possible to block the Peripheral nervous system with an injection?

 

[Ray46]

Yes, I am waiting for that response too. I had a C6 done 3.days ago and i don´t feel a thing. He should have a C6, C3 And a C7 done. The injection i got might have taken out some activity from the sympathetic system and i will to exercise the para-sympatric system with with a "heart rate variability feedback" device i have. I used some years ago extensively without any effect. I try again because i might have more access to the para-symphatic system now. DP is likely to be an para-sympatric disorder where the defensive immobilisation/ "shot down" response is present and the para-sympatric social/safe mode is absent. "Heart rate variability biofeedback" works on stimulating the later para-sympatric state. SGB works on taking out the "flight and fight" system that might be overactive in DP and keeps the defensive para sympathetic immobilisation/"shot down" response up and the social/safe para-sympatric system down. Taking out the overdrive in the "fight and flight system" might not do it alone for a response in DP.

Did anything changed in your anxiety level? Do you feel more calm or less anxiety or everything the same so far?

 

[Ray46]

2) They numb the C6 (cervical 6) ganglion because it is the largest and easiest to come to of the sympathetic ganglia. C3( cervical 3) and C7 are smaller and more difficult to get to. Some respond to C6 only for the same reason. Here is a picture of the different ganglia and their placement;

Is it possible to inject/numb all ganglia in one session from C1 to C7?

 

[Ray46]

Yes, it is possible to take C3 and C7 at the same time. This is smaller ganglia and more difficult to access because there is blood vessels close to them. The set-up to take them will take more time than C6 and you have to be secure that the patient can tolerate that.

I mean can you inject c1, c2 , c3, c4, c5, c6, and c7 in one session?

 

[Ray46]

Hey guys I have found an intersting article which shows that a man who had his adrenal gland removed can't feel fear.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/jordy-cernik-man-unable-fear-2208002

 

[Ray46]

[quote name="ralex" post="473169" timestamp="1498691758"]Hi everyone, sorry for the delay in reply. I had the stellate ganglion block in two locations (I believe c6 and c3) with Dr. Lipov in Chicago last Friday. I'm currently still driving back home to Canada (couldn't fly as I had to bring a friend) so I have limited access to a computer until I get back on Friday. I will post a comprehensive response on Friday or Saturday once I'm back.

Would love to hear your comprehensive response

 

[Ray46]

I'm still wondering if C6, C3 and C7 are the only ganglions which can be blocked...