[person3]

And that's just it. I'm OK.

The most amazing realization came to me today, one of incredible self-love.

It was the realization that what I had done to myself in the past (blame, anorexia, hurting myself, isolation, black and white thinking) was WRONG.

I actually realized it with a feel of disgust in my stomach. Survival instinct. The kind of disgust you get when you think of someone getting killed or an animal being hurt.,

I never had that before...I just had more shame and embarassment when I DID know the "wrongness" of hurting myself, but I didn't get the SURVIVAL instinct. Just guilt. This time, I was out for myself. Protecting myself.

Wow.

I also realized that the amazing thing was when I was at my WORST, my VERY VERY WORST, was NOT IN THE DEPTHS OF DEPERSONALIZATION, NOT EVEN IN THE WORST PART OF IT...but the time before, the year where I felt so happy and real yet tried to change myself and manipulate situations and cause myself harm when I messed up and starved to try to be something else. When I shut myself in and structured my time, I was bothered with OC thoughts, and I realize that what that was, was my mind crying out for stimulation! I was too starved for real thought, I was WAY too intelligent for the life I punished myself to live (in hopes I could be what other people wanted)

The DP wasn't the crime.

The ROAD there, that is the real, sickening crime. It hurts.l

 

[person3]

And that's just it. I'm OK.

The most amazing realization came to me today, one of incredible self-love.

It was the realization that what I had done to myself in the past (blame, anorexia, hurting myself, isolation, black and white thinking) was WRONG.

I actually realized it with a feel of disgust in my stomach. Survival instinct. The kind of disgust you get when you think of someone getting killed or an animal being hurt.,

I never had that before...I just had more shame and embarassment when I DID know the "wrongness" of hurting myself, but I didn't get the SURVIVAL instinct. Just guilt. This time, I was out for myself. Protecting myself.

Wow.

I also realized that the amazing thing was when I was at my WORST, my VERY VERY WORST, was NOT IN THE DEPTHS OF DEPERSONALIZATION, NOT EVEN IN THE WORST PART OF IT...but the time before, the year where I felt so happy and real yet tried to change myself and manipulate situations and cause myself harm when I messed up and starved to try to be something else. When I shut myself in and structured my time, I was bothered with OC thoughts, and I realize that what that was, was my mind crying out for stimulation! I was too starved for real thought, I was WAY too intelligent for the life I punished myself to live (in hopes I could be what other people wanted)

The DP wasn't the crime.

The ROAD there, that is the real, sickening crime. It hurts.l

 

[Guest]

Very cool...and very well said.

I had a similar kind of "ephiphany" myself - a sudden "getting it" that the real damage had occurred long before ANY symptom reared its head. When we're the most delusional is when we're the most dangerous to ourselves. For me, the sudden breaking down and onset of dp, etc. was reality trying to break THROUGH to me, not the beginning of something sinister.

Peace, my friend,
Janine

 

[Guest]

Very cool...and very well said.

I had a similar kind of "ephiphany" myself - a sudden "getting it" that the real damage had occurred long before ANY symptom reared its head. When we're the most delusional is when we're the most dangerous to ourselves. For me, the sudden breaking down and onset of dp, etc. was reality trying to break THROUGH to me, not the beginning of something sinister.

Peace, my friend,
Janine

 

[g-funk]

I'm still a bit confused on this one.
When you say about the onset of dp being reality breaking through, that implies that we were living in unreality before. This makes me feel that my life when happy is the delusional life, not the one when I'm dp'd. . I've been about 90% 'normal' for the last few weeks except for searching high and low as to what I was doing wrong before, and worrying that Im living a lie. I honestly don't think I was living in a state of unreality before, I understand that you can live a destructive lifestyle and not notice it at the time but I don't have delusional beliefs or obssess on weird thoughts, so can't see why my body/mind would attempt to protect me from this. I can see why in extreme anxiety states, my mind responds accordingly by withdrawing as protection. Then the irrational thinking kicks in but not before. What about people who have dp/dr just as a symptom of panic attacks and not a disorder? And caused by smoking pot?

I'm not questioning your beliefs Janine and you know how much I value your opinion, you are the Oracle of dp knowledge after all! I realise that to get rid of dp, it is the same regardless of how it came about. Im just unsure how the 'anatomy' of it works. I think I may be making mountains out of molehills, I only get dp when extremely anxious and then the circle starts.

 

[g-funk]

I'm still a bit confused on this one.
When you say about the onset of dp being reality breaking through, that implies that we were living in unreality before. This makes me feel that my life when happy is the delusional life, not the one when I'm dp'd. . I've been about 90% 'normal' for the last few weeks except for searching high and low as to what I was doing wrong before, and worrying that Im living a lie. I honestly don't think I was living in a state of unreality before, I understand that you can live a destructive lifestyle and not notice it at the time but I don't have delusional beliefs or obssess on weird thoughts, so can't see why my body/mind would attempt to protect me from this. I can see why in extreme anxiety states, my mind responds accordingly by withdrawing as protection. Then the irrational thinking kicks in but not before. What about people who have dp/dr just as a symptom of panic attacks and not a disorder? And caused by smoking pot?

I'm not questioning your beliefs Janine and you know how much I value your opinion, you are the Oracle of dp knowledge after all! I realise that to get rid of dp, it is the same regardless of how it came about. Im just unsure how the 'anatomy' of it works. I think I may be making mountains out of molehills, I only get dp when extremely anxious and then the circle starts.

 

[person3]

G-funk what she means by delusional is not a symptomatic, full on delusional person but someone who has DELUDED themselves into particular trains of thought such as: "I can get any guy I want", "She will come back to me if I do the right thing", "I don't need people"...or any other thoughts that conflict with you and you real wants and needs. Not weird crazy thoughts but more like black and white thinking (Mom was emotionally abusive to me, therefore she is ALL BAD and I won't even take that good dating advice she gave me-- that is a black and white thought, thinking of people as all good or all bad, especially based on an action YOU resent them for...for example, my mom WAS emotionally abusive, but she wasn't doing it TO ME [see, the narcissism is I want to think that I'm low enough that I deserved it because I didn't live up to some standard], she wasn't doing it TO ME, she was doing it because she was a VERY ill person herself and I don't view her as all bad, she is good too, she has good and bad and she's just a person like everyone else, she is just a very ILL person and she didn't do anything that ruined my life like I would LIKE to think to take responsibility off of me for doing anything).

Another deluded thought is Magical Thinking (OCD symptoms, for example. Superstitions. Good Luck charms. Anything that draws upon the "magical" abliity to have luck on your side)

Illogical thinking, for example: "My girlfriend talked about Andy the other day. She must want to sleep with him. I am nothing. She doesn't even like me"....trains of thought that stem from a tiny little suspicion that eventually dive in to your self-worth.

Self hate is another delusion. "I must starve myself because I'm fat. In fact I won't eat for three days because I had a piece of cake. I might as well kill myself." DANGEROUS

Other examples of self hate/"perfectionism"(put in quotes because in a way you're not really trying to perfect something like a good piece of art or something you're just trying to do everything perfectly...ok maybe that is perfectionism but anyway):
"I must make all A's this semester and will not accept anything less" (only excusable if your financial aid/scholarship requires perfect grades, which is doubtful unless you've been slacking off the last few semesters)

Self-Blame:
She left me. I'm a bad person. (maybe she had a five grand a month crank habit? who knows? but automatically putting the blame on yourself is a bad move)

Guilt:
Especially feeling guilty for things you hate...like I would feel guilty for seeing my boyfriend's family fight, when deep down I just thought they were damned annoying.

Or the guilt I felt for harming myself. I felt guilty because I alarmed so many people, and I thought I inconvenienced them and such...when I WANTED to get people's attention anyway, but the REAL feeling underneath was that I did NOT want to hurt myself, and I wanted to live, but I was too bent up on hating myself to realize that, I was too bent on trying to be perfect tha I just dismissed that and the only valid feeling left for me was guilt.

Which brings me to another one- fantasizing about being found dead or maimed or shot or OD'd on drugs, and being found by people who have hurt you in the past....you know instead of confronting them in REAL life you want to imagine them hitting your car and finding you a bloody mess inside, so that you can SHOW them how much they hurt you without risking it in the reality playing field by actually SAYING it. (which reminds me, I chickened out on something last night. Looks like I have my work cut out for me..)

But yeah. Those are the delusions that Janine is likely referring to (unless I'm deluded myself! )

So there is some examples. Do you have any of that stuff going on?

 

[person3]

G-funk what she means by delusional is not a symptomatic, full on delusional person but someone who has DELUDED themselves into particular trains of thought such as: "I can get any guy I want", "She will come back to me if I do the right thing", "I don't need people"...or any other thoughts that conflict with you and you real wants and needs. Not weird crazy thoughts but more like black and white thinking (Mom was emotionally abusive to me, therefore she is ALL BAD and I won't even take that good dating advice she gave me-- that is a black and white thought, thinking of people as all good or all bad, especially based on an action YOU resent them for...for example, my mom WAS emotionally abusive, but she wasn't doing it TO ME [see, the narcissism is I want to think that I'm low enough that I deserved it because I didn't live up to some standard], she wasn't doing it TO ME, she was doing it because she was a VERY ill person herself and I don't view her as all bad, she is good too, she has good and bad and she's just a person like everyone else, she is just a very ILL person and she didn't do anything that ruined my life like I would LIKE to think to take responsibility off of me for doing anything).

Another deluded thought is Magical Thinking (OCD symptoms, for example. Superstitions. Good Luck charms. Anything that draws upon the "magical" abliity to have luck on your side)

Illogical thinking, for example: "My girlfriend talked about Andy the other day. She must want to sleep with him. I am nothing. She doesn't even like me"....trains of thought that stem from a tiny little suspicion that eventually dive in to your self-worth.

Self hate is another delusion. "I must starve myself because I'm fat. In fact I won't eat for three days because I had a piece of cake. I might as well kill myself." DANGEROUS

Other examples of self hate/"perfectionism"(put in quotes because in a way you're not really trying to perfect something like a good piece of art or something you're just trying to do everything perfectly...ok maybe that is perfectionism but anyway):
"I must make all A's this semester and will not accept anything less" (only excusable if your financial aid/scholarship requires perfect grades, which is doubtful unless you've been slacking off the last few semesters)

Self-Blame:
She left me. I'm a bad person. (maybe she had a five grand a month crank habit? who knows? but automatically putting the blame on yourself is a bad move)

Guilt:
Especially feeling guilty for things you hate...like I would feel guilty for seeing my boyfriend's family fight, when deep down I just thought they were damned annoying.

Or the guilt I felt for harming myself. I felt guilty because I alarmed so many people, and I thought I inconvenienced them and such...when I WANTED to get people's attention anyway, but the REAL feeling underneath was that I did NOT want to hurt myself, and I wanted to live, but I was too bent up on hating myself to realize that, I was too bent on trying to be perfect tha I just dismissed that and the only valid feeling left for me was guilt.

Which brings me to another one- fantasizing about being found dead or maimed or shot or OD'd on drugs, and being found by people who have hurt you in the past....you know instead of confronting them in REAL life you want to imagine them hitting your car and finding you a bloody mess inside, so that you can SHOW them how much they hurt you without risking it in the reality playing field by actually SAYING it. (which reminds me, I chickened out on something last night. Looks like I have my work cut out for me..)

But yeah. Those are the delusions that Janine is likely referring to (unless I'm deluded myself! )

So there is some examples. Do you have any of that stuff going on?

 

[g-funk]

Quote Janine

'One thing we dp/obsessive/narcissistic types are veryyyy good at is compartmentalizing. We are able to live the majority of our lives in one mode of self, and then keep "secret" holding pens for our wilder emotions. Some guys see hookers, or fantasy sex workers and play out secret parts of themselves that never see the light of day. Some guys have secret homosexual liaisons, daliances on business trips that are so sordid their family/friends would literally not believe it was them. Some men do it in isolation, with porn or phone lines.

It's a symptom of a split in the ego. And the result is that we CANNOT feel much in real life, but feel TOO much in our secret caves. Nowhere in any of that do real people count for much. We are "using" pieces of reality (such as other people) to fuel some private scenerio we don't even understand. But we go to like moths to a flame. We go to it as if we need a "fix." '

One reason we are so hard to treat, if not impossible, is that we don't want to integrate ourselves even in the therapy sessions - we want to talk ONLY about the fantasy life, or only about day to day reality. And never the twain shall meet. We cannot imagine having a disucssion with a shrink about the "ex" (in your case) and being open to talking about feelings for the wife, for the children, for one's self in other areas. We keep our worlds separate. We keep our Self(ves) separate. And the harder the shrink tries to get us to bring it all into one large sandbox and explore it - the more we say "this has nothing to do with my marriage, family, etc...you don't get it. I need to just look at me and this girl - THAT is where some answer lies.." '

I know that it may seem as though I am in total denial and really banging on about it, but just don't understand it. I feel a full range of emotions and have never felt as though I separate areas of my life. Granted, I act differently with my Mum as I would when I am with my mates. But then, who doesn't? But my emotional responses remain the same throughout, sad/happy/jealous/calm/angry or whatever - I feel upset when I argue with my boyfriend, I get angry when I stub my toe and envy people who have lots of money. I don't harbour any secret fantasies (apart from world domination - does that count?!) and don't feel as though I use other 'selves' for different situations.
I would happily discuss everything about myself in anyway shape or form to a therapist, in order to find out more about it. I can't find anyone who doesn't do a blanker than blank face at the word depersonalization. Followed by a look that says 'Shit, are they gonna ask me questions on this?'
So until then, I'm relentless on finding out the workings of this. It's not like Im sat here dp'd or anything, more that I really want to understand this. If something can be fixed, then I'm damn well gonna fix it. But if it ain't broke.......

 

[g-funk]

Quote Janine

'One thing we dp/obsessive/narcissistic types are veryyyy good at is compartmentalizing. We are able to live the majority of our lives in one mode of self, and then keep "secret" holding pens for our wilder emotions. Some guys see hookers, or fantasy sex workers and play out secret parts of themselves that never see the light of day. Some guys have secret homosexual liaisons, daliances on business trips that are so sordid their family/friends would literally not believe it was them. Some men do it in isolation, with porn or phone lines.

It's a symptom of a split in the ego. And the result is that we CANNOT feel much in real life, but feel TOO much in our secret caves. Nowhere in any of that do real people count for much. We are "using" pieces of reality (such as other people) to fuel some private scenerio we don't even understand. But we go to like moths to a flame. We go to it as if we need a "fix." '

One reason we are so hard to treat, if not impossible, is that we don't want to integrate ourselves even in the therapy sessions - we want to talk ONLY about the fantasy life, or only about day to day reality. And never the twain shall meet. We cannot imagine having a disucssion with a shrink about the "ex" (in your case) and being open to talking about feelings for the wife, for the children, for one's self in other areas. We keep our worlds separate. We keep our Self(ves) separate. And the harder the shrink tries to get us to bring it all into one large sandbox and explore it - the more we say "this has nothing to do with my marriage, family, etc...you don't get it. I need to just look at me and this girl - THAT is where some answer lies.." '

I know that it may seem as though I am in total denial and really banging on about it, but just don't understand it. I feel a full range of emotions and have never felt as though I separate areas of my life. Granted, I act differently with my Mum as I would when I am with my mates. But then, who doesn't? But my emotional responses remain the same throughout, sad/happy/jealous/calm/angry or whatever - I feel upset when I argue with my boyfriend, I get angry when I stub my toe and envy people who have lots of money. I don't harbour any secret fantasies (apart from world domination - does that count?!) and don't feel as though I use other 'selves' for different situations.
I would happily discuss everything about myself in anyway shape or form to a therapist, in order to find out more about it. I can't find anyone who doesn't do a blanker than blank face at the word depersonalization. Followed by a look that says 'Shit, are they gonna ask me questions on this?'
So until then, I'm relentless on finding out the workings of this. It's not like Im sat here dp'd or anything, more that I really want to understand this. If something can be fixed, then I'm damn well gonna fix it. But if it ain't broke.......

 

[Guest]

am at work, and don't have time to reply - but this is a very cool discussion.

What Person3 said - that is exactly correct - that's what I meant - NOT that dp is Real and our former reality was an illusion....exactly what she said, lol..she translated me perfectly.

More later,
J

 

[Guest]

am at work, and don't have time to reply - but this is a very cool discussion.

What Person3 said - that is exactly correct - that's what I meant - NOT that dp is Real and our former reality was an illusion....exactly what she said, lol..she translated me perfectly.

More later,
J

 

[g-funk]

Oops, posted the above before reading your response person3.
Yes, I can relate to a couple of things - I am a bit of a perfectionist. I also felt really guilty when day after day I cried on my boyfriends shoulder when dp'd. I thought I wasn't being a good girlfriend. But I was dp'd, and now I know that that was irrational and he loves me regardless (not being narcissistic!).
Going back to being a perfectionist, I spoke to a counsellor a couple of times (very dp'd at the time) and she said I was very hard on myself, like I didnt allow myself to accept feeling that way. That's probably why Im so keen to find out what this is all about, to 'perfect' it. Control it maybe?
I've read lots recently about surrendering yourself to what will be will be.
I've also accepted the fact that I have an illness and am not afraid to tell my friends any more. That's a huge relief, but it does still make me feel a bit inferior in a way.
Don't most people have feelings of guilt etc? Is it just those thoughts but a bit further down the line? It just scares me, the talk of 'selves' and compartmentalizing, as if another alter ego is going to appear and say 'Ha! Didn't know I was here did you?!' Which means Im that much more f*cked up than the next person. Am I possibly making those mountains out of molehills again?

 

[g-funk]

Oops, posted the above before reading your response person3.
Yes, I can relate to a couple of things - I am a bit of a perfectionist. I also felt really guilty when day after day I cried on my boyfriends shoulder when dp'd. I thought I wasn't being a good girlfriend. But I was dp'd, and now I know that that was irrational and he loves me regardless (not being narcissistic!).
Going back to being a perfectionist, I spoke to a counsellor a couple of times (very dp'd at the time) and she said I was very hard on myself, like I didnt allow myself to accept feeling that way. That's probably why Im so keen to find out what this is all about, to 'perfect' it. Control it maybe?
I've read lots recently about surrendering yourself to what will be will be.
I've also accepted the fact that I have an illness and am not afraid to tell my friends any more. That's a huge relief, but it does still make me feel a bit inferior in a way.
Don't most people have feelings of guilt etc? Is it just those thoughts but a bit further down the line? It just scares me, the talk of 'selves' and compartmentalizing, as if another alter ego is going to appear and say 'Ha! Didn't know I was here did you?!' Which means Im that much more f*cked up than the next person. Am I possibly making those mountains out of molehills again?