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Why did I have to drink coffee? Dammit, I am feeling so tense right now and my heart is beating so fast. I'm all dizzy, the room keeps tilting. And this is coffee not alcohol! Liquour doesn't make the room tilt like this on me.

And I just had another conversation with someone who says I'm miserable cuz I want to be. I HATE when people say that how the hell would they know. Who would want to be miserable? My therapist said that to me too last time I saw him. If I want to be miserable then what the hell am I paying him for and wasting time with him for?

And I'm not doing this to myself. People keep saying you have to have a thought before you have a feeling, well a lot of times I just have the feelings. My therapist says this isn't possible. Well I must be insane then cuz I feel terror without any thought of anything. Well my thoughts are constantly racing... he also said you can't think two things at the same time. I have like hundreds at a time. So how am I supposed to fix the thoughts if I don't know which ones are causing which feelings?

I'm so confused. I think my DP is getting worse. I almost screamed in the car the other day, but managed to hold myself together. On the outside anyway. Why can't I be normal for just one day?

Sorry to whine. I'm just really down right now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Why did I have to drink coffee? Dammit, I am feeling so tense right now and my heart is beating so fast. I'm all dizzy, the room keeps tilting. And this is coffee not alcohol! Liquour doesn't make the room tilt like this on me.

And I just had another conversation with someone who says I'm miserable cuz I want to be. I HATE when people say that how the hell would they know. Who would want to be miserable? My therapist said that to me too last time I saw him. If I want to be miserable then what the hell am I paying him for and wasting time with him for?

And I'm not doing this to myself. People keep saying you have to have a thought before you have a feeling, well a lot of times I just have the feelings. My therapist says this isn't possible. Well I must be insane then cuz I feel terror without any thought of anything. Well my thoughts are constantly racing... he also said you can't think two things at the same time. I have like hundreds at a time. So how am I supposed to fix the thoughts if I don't know which ones are causing which feelings?

I'm so confused. I think my DP is getting worse. I almost screamed in the car the other day, but managed to hold myself together. On the outside anyway. Why can't I be normal for just one day?

Sorry to whine. I'm just really down right now.
 
G

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Dear Peacedove,

I am shocked to read how insensitive your therapist is. I would walk away and never look back.

Also, of course there are feelings before thought. This is the case all the time. Especially with anxiety. It comes out of the blue. Like a spook in my case.

I reply to this post cause I am really with you and I would like to send you my empathy. Blaming you for your illness is not what you deserve.I am really sorry that people are so spiritless in your life.

I know it is horrible when there is not enought support or even refusing behaviour from people.

Don't blame yourself for drinking coffee, coffee is not supposed to be strong enough to trigger dp, you could not have known that it is not good for you.
For me it is the other way round: I can drink plenty of coffee without problems, but alcohol triggers the dr instantly.

I wish I could be a better help for you, always know that there are people who understand. I certainly do understand you.
Sending you all my best,
I
 
G

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Dear Peacedove,

I am shocked to read how insensitive your therapist is. I would walk away and never look back.

Also, of course there are feelings before thought. This is the case all the time. Especially with anxiety. It comes out of the blue. Like a spook in my case.

I reply to this post cause I am really with you and I would like to send you my empathy. Blaming you for your illness is not what you deserve.I am really sorry that people are so spiritless in your life.

I know it is horrible when there is not enought support or even refusing behaviour from people.

Don't blame yourself for drinking coffee, coffee is not supposed to be strong enough to trigger dp, you could not have known that it is not good for you.
For me it is the other way round: I can drink plenty of coffee without problems, but alcohol triggers the dr instantly.

I wish I could be a better help for you, always know that there are people who understand. I certainly do understand you.
Sending you all my best,
I
 

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i look and feel totally miserable to, i wish i didnt. people who havent got it dont understand whats going on in your head, its hell but there is suppose to be a light at the end of the tunnel, lets hope it shines through soon,
 

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i look and feel totally miserable to, i wish i didnt. people who havent got it dont understand whats going on in your head, its hell but there is suppose to be a light at the end of the tunnel, lets hope it shines through soon,
 

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peacedove, it is very sad to think that some of these so called professionals lack feelings. You really need a different therapist. What you are experiencing is normal human behaviour when one is not feeling well, especially with an illness like the one we all suffer with. My guess is your doctor does not understand this illness and does not know how to treat you. You need someone who has knowledge, understanding and cares about their patients. I think he needs a therapist by the sound of things. Just because he is one does not mean that he is right or that what he says to you is okay.

Lots of people will express their own personal views on what you feel like, what you should do and that really do not know because in order to understand this is to live it or learn it. Please do not take to heart what others say to you only those who support you with kindness and understanding should be allowed to voice their opinion. You are a human being with feelings and yes you can have feelings and feel like there is no thought.

If it is okay I would like to say that I have been alot better without therapists than with them. I used to say if I ever need the strength of keep fighting I would see one and after doing that would say god they really make you feel like fighting the fight. In other words to me they are insensitive and waste my time. Now I am not saying they are all like this, I am sure there is some who really know there stuff but I think they are hard to find.

Don't give up, you are okay, right now you really need to do things to make you feel good about yourself. You are important, do not let the words of some shatter your world.

gem.
 

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peacedove, it is very sad to think that some of these so called professionals lack feelings. You really need a different therapist. What you are experiencing is normal human behaviour when one is not feeling well, especially with an illness like the one we all suffer with. My guess is your doctor does not understand this illness and does not know how to treat you. You need someone who has knowledge, understanding and cares about their patients. I think he needs a therapist by the sound of things. Just because he is one does not mean that he is right or that what he says to you is okay.

Lots of people will express their own personal views on what you feel like, what you should do and that really do not know because in order to understand this is to live it or learn it. Please do not take to heart what others say to you only those who support you with kindness and understanding should be allowed to voice their opinion. You are a human being with feelings and yes you can have feelings and feel like there is no thought.

If it is okay I would like to say that I have been alot better without therapists than with them. I used to say if I ever need the strength of keep fighting I would see one and after doing that would say god they really make you feel like fighting the fight. In other words to me they are insensitive and waste my time. Now I am not saying they are all like this, I am sure there is some who really know there stuff but I think they are hard to find.

Don't give up, you are okay, right now you really need to do things to make you feel good about yourself. You are important, do not let the words of some shatter your world.

gem.
 

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Hi peacedove - I can't find much more to say in this thread, as others have said the things already... But I wanna give you my sympathy, and also I agree that there needn't be a thought behind a feeling. I find that idea highly disturbing and wrong, because people - not all of them thank god - aren't any rationalizing machines. Instead I think there are almost always feelings behind thoughts - at least that's how my mind seems to work. Your therapist is wrong, and seems to be quite insensitive. You deserve a better therapist, you are not miserable just because you want to, nobody should say you things like that - especially not your therapist.
 

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Hi peacedove - I can't find much more to say in this thread, as others have said the things already... But I wanna give you my sympathy, and also I agree that there needn't be a thought behind a feeling. I find that idea highly disturbing and wrong, because people - not all of them thank god - aren't any rationalizing machines. Instead I think there are almost always feelings behind thoughts - at least that's how my mind seems to work. Your therapist is wrong, and seems to be quite insensitive. You deserve a better therapist, you are not miserable just because you want to, nobody should say you things like that - especially not your therapist.
 

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Your therapist does sound a bit insensitive. I sometimes think that these people must get so hardened to these things and maybe it spills out into their work. Maybe its their way of not getting too attached the client.

Anyway, I'm going to play devil's advocate Im afraid. Hear me out. I do believe that your thoughts influence your mood. If you think about it, you are constantly receiving information or processing it in your brain. You are constantly thinking. As dp'ers we are all so aware of our thinking but not really how it works or the fact that we are in control. How you feel right now is the direct result of your thoughts at this moment or just prior. I thought exactly the same thing as you, that I would feel a certain way and then have all these thoughts which would cloud my mind, and I would examine each and everyone of them to try and make sens of my feeling.
Then, I traced it back a bit and realised that there would be some kind of automatic thought, almost on the edge of my consciousness that had popped into my head and made me feel uncomfortable. In order to find out why it made me feel this way, I would then analyse the thought. It is true that your thoughts govern your mood, however, I was still getting it wrong. By analysing all my thoughts (which would, like you peacedove, be 100 a minute and would spiral out of control) all I was doing was producing more negative scenarios in my head which made me FEEL worse.
So, I thought, how am I ever going to sort out my thoughts? How am I going to find out why I get dp if I can't analyse my thoughts to find out what is causing it? (see the vicious circle?!). Firstly, you HAVE to realise that your thoughts are just that, nothing more than fleeting images in your brain. But because your own thought system is so familiar to you, you always validate it, think that it is accurate. The situation is made worse when you suffer from obsessive/dp type thoughts, because the more you think about things, the less in perspective they will seem. If you are to close to a painting, you can only see a small part, not the whole picture. And that small part will seem much bigger at that range.

So right now, Peacedove, I'm guessing that all those thoughts that are going through your head, wondering why you are miserable etc will seem very important, and you feel the need to look at each of them. You have to learn to distrust your thoughts when like this. They are, though you do not realise it, causing you to feel a certain way. Even if you can't remember what you were thinking and just happen to 'feel' a certain way, don't try going back and ruminating over what it may have been. This is a sure fire way into dp.

Think about it, if you were able to be distracted from these thoughts for just ten minutes, if your thoughts were ENTIRELY absorbed in a television programme, would you be feeling bad? No, because the bad thoughts wouldn't be there. I always used to think the thoughts had to be there, that I had to be thinking them over to find out WHY WHY WHY. That if I wasn't, I was ignoring the problem. But then I realised that 1) Being obsessive means that my negative thoughts are out of perspective - Don't believe them 2) Letting a negative thought stay in your mind does not solve it, it will only make you feel bad 3) This does apply to everyone's brain, you are not too complicated, you're situation is not too serious for this to work. You have to believe that, and then you have control over your thoughts once more. They will return to normal processes, you will have less negative thoughts and the ones you do get, you can assess in a reasonable way, without letting them cloud your mind. PERSPECTIVE. I couldn't see the woods for the trees. Honestly, you will not find the answer to dp by letting your mind rule you. Take control.

If this response seems harsh, I'm sorry. I have every sympathy for you peacedove, and I could totally relate to your words. I am not saying that your therapist should treat you this way, at all. She should have explained more to you about what she meant. I hope you feel better soon.

G-funkxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 

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Your therapist does sound a bit insensitive. I sometimes think that these people must get so hardened to these things and maybe it spills out into their work. Maybe its their way of not getting too attached the client.

Anyway, I'm going to play devil's advocate Im afraid. Hear me out. I do believe that your thoughts influence your mood. If you think about it, you are constantly receiving information or processing it in your brain. You are constantly thinking. As dp'ers we are all so aware of our thinking but not really how it works or the fact that we are in control. How you feel right now is the direct result of your thoughts at this moment or just prior. I thought exactly the same thing as you, that I would feel a certain way and then have all these thoughts which would cloud my mind, and I would examine each and everyone of them to try and make sens of my feeling.
Then, I traced it back a bit and realised that there would be some kind of automatic thought, almost on the edge of my consciousness that had popped into my head and made me feel uncomfortable. In order to find out why it made me feel this way, I would then analyse the thought. It is true that your thoughts govern your mood, however, I was still getting it wrong. By analysing all my thoughts (which would, like you peacedove, be 100 a minute and would spiral out of control) all I was doing was producing more negative scenarios in my head which made me FEEL worse.
So, I thought, how am I ever going to sort out my thoughts? How am I going to find out why I get dp if I can't analyse my thoughts to find out what is causing it? (see the vicious circle?!). Firstly, you HAVE to realise that your thoughts are just that, nothing more than fleeting images in your brain. But because your own thought system is so familiar to you, you always validate it, think that it is accurate. The situation is made worse when you suffer from obsessive/dp type thoughts, because the more you think about things, the less in perspective they will seem. If you are to close to a painting, you can only see a small part, not the whole picture. And that small part will seem much bigger at that range.

So right now, Peacedove, I'm guessing that all those thoughts that are going through your head, wondering why you are miserable etc will seem very important, and you feel the need to look at each of them. You have to learn to distrust your thoughts when like this. They are, though you do not realise it, causing you to feel a certain way. Even if you can't remember what you were thinking and just happen to 'feel' a certain way, don't try going back and ruminating over what it may have been. This is a sure fire way into dp.

Think about it, if you were able to be distracted from these thoughts for just ten minutes, if your thoughts were ENTIRELY absorbed in a television programme, would you be feeling bad? No, because the bad thoughts wouldn't be there. I always used to think the thoughts had to be there, that I had to be thinking them over to find out WHY WHY WHY. That if I wasn't, I was ignoring the problem. But then I realised that 1) Being obsessive means that my negative thoughts are out of perspective - Don't believe them 2) Letting a negative thought stay in your mind does not solve it, it will only make you feel bad 3) This does apply to everyone's brain, you are not too complicated, you're situation is not too serious for this to work. You have to believe that, and then you have control over your thoughts once more. They will return to normal processes, you will have less negative thoughts and the ones you do get, you can assess in a reasonable way, without letting them cloud your mind. PERSPECTIVE. I couldn't see the woods for the trees. Honestly, you will not find the answer to dp by letting your mind rule you. Take control.

If this response seems harsh, I'm sorry. I have every sympathy for you peacedove, and I could totally relate to your words. I am not saying that your therapist should treat you this way, at all. She should have explained more to you about what she meant. I hope you feel better soon.

G-funkxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 

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Hi g-funk - hope I won't go too off-topic, but I'm interested in this question of mood/feelings vs. thoughts. I also think that thoughts affect mood sometimes (many times actually), but it can happen also on the contrary. Especially I have in my mind: what if one doesn't suffer from any obsessive thinking (that's me) and still feel anxious without any apparent reason sometimes?

The best example of feelings behind thoughts might be my last time at the summer cottage, when I was sitting beside the fireplace. I had drunk two mugs of coffee before the evening, and then I drank a couple of bottles of cider in the evening. Needless to say, I started feeling very tense and anxious because the mixture of 'caffeine hangover' and 'alcohol high', but first I just didn't realize what was happening in my head.

I knew I was tense and anxious, but still I tried to continue thinking about my final thesis and studying, but finally found myself whining that I never will accomplish those things in my life. I felt miserable, but didn't realize why did I feel so miserable, until I found out that "gee - I really drank quite a lot of coffee during the day, no wonder why I feel/think everything related to school will explode one moment or another".

First I felt anxious and tense, and cuz the mood was created chemically (I guess so), no thoughts affected the mood, but rather my miserable thoughts were launched by the anxious feelings underneath (caused by the mixture of caffeine and alcohol). Although I rationally tried to calm me down, the anxiety was relieved only by taking the night's antidepressant, as mirtazapine is quite a good remedy for caffeine-induced tenseness.

Indeed often - even without any chemical fueling - I first start feeling anxious and because of the anxiety my thoughts start going to the gloomy direction too. At least this is how I see it.

Any ideas - does anybody agree/disagree?
 

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Hi g-funk - hope I won't go too off-topic, but I'm interested in this question of mood/feelings vs. thoughts. I also think that thoughts affect mood sometimes (many times actually), but it can happen also on the contrary. Especially I have in my mind: what if one doesn't suffer from any obsessive thinking (that's me) and still feel anxious without any apparent reason sometimes?

The best example of feelings behind thoughts might be my last time at the summer cottage, when I was sitting beside the fireplace. I had drunk two mugs of coffee before the evening, and then I drank a couple of bottles of cider in the evening. Needless to say, I started feeling very tense and anxious because the mixture of 'caffeine hangover' and 'alcohol high', but first I just didn't realize what was happening in my head.

I knew I was tense and anxious, but still I tried to continue thinking about my final thesis and studying, but finally found myself whining that I never will accomplish those things in my life. I felt miserable, but didn't realize why did I feel so miserable, until I found out that "gee - I really drank quite a lot of coffee during the day, no wonder why I feel/think everything related to school will explode one moment or another".

First I felt anxious and tense, and cuz the mood was created chemically (I guess so), no thoughts affected the mood, but rather my miserable thoughts were launched by the anxious feelings underneath (caused by the mixture of caffeine and alcohol). Although I rationally tried to calm me down, the anxiety was relieved only by taking the night's antidepressant, as mirtazapine is quite a good remedy for caffeine-induced tenseness.

Indeed often - even without any chemical fueling - I first start feeling anxious and because of the anxiety my thoughts start going to the gloomy direction too. At least this is how I see it.

Any ideas - does anybody agree/disagree?
 

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I enjoy this subject too and am glad we have different opinions so we can discuss it! I know what you mean about feeling anxious for no reason. However, I believe that once our thoughts have got themselves into a groove or a way of thinking, (not necessarily obsessive thoughts) for instance, when in dp, it is very much a habitual way of thinking. I could never understand that when I opened my eyes in the morning, I immediately was petrified. How could I feel this way before even moving? But my thoughts were still with me from the night before, I hadnt magically lifed myself out of the groove whilst sleeping, it takes work. I knew this and probably I expected to wake like this. My thoughts immediately turned to 'dp' out of habit.
As for the coffee thing, Im guessing you felt the physical sensation of the caffeine stimulating your nervous system. This immediately drew your attention to your body, you became aware of any anxious sensation and the cycle began.
You may find yourself feeling anxious for no reason at all during the day. But, I will guarantee you there will be something niggling at the back of your mind. And I know that for myself, this was nothing other than worrying about worry, fearing the next episode of panic, just fearing fear. The original problem/thought 5 hours ago may have been so unimportant, but afterwards, moods can linger without you realising. I spent so much time thinking 'what am i afraid of?' what am i anxious about? most of the time it is the fear of fear and nothing more. which is basically what anxiety and panic is about. The actual symptoms, that is. It is so easy to say but when you really deconstruct what anxiety is, you can began to understand it.
Of course, this is all from my point of view and from what I have learnt from books. I am only passing on information that to me has been crucial in feeling better. I would love to hear others' views. Especially any one who has in depth knowledge of this thinking/feeling thing. Feel free to blow my theories out of the water - I really want to be a Cognitive Behavioural Therapist so need all the info I can get
 

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I enjoy this subject too and am glad we have different opinions so we can discuss it! I know what you mean about feeling anxious for no reason. However, I believe that once our thoughts have got themselves into a groove or a way of thinking, (not necessarily obsessive thoughts) for instance, when in dp, it is very much a habitual way of thinking. I could never understand that when I opened my eyes in the morning, I immediately was petrified. How could I feel this way before even moving? But my thoughts were still with me from the night before, I hadnt magically lifed myself out of the groove whilst sleeping, it takes work. I knew this and probably I expected to wake like this. My thoughts immediately turned to 'dp' out of habit.
As for the coffee thing, Im guessing you felt the physical sensation of the caffeine stimulating your nervous system. This immediately drew your attention to your body, you became aware of any anxious sensation and the cycle began.
You may find yourself feeling anxious for no reason at all during the day. But, I will guarantee you there will be something niggling at the back of your mind. And I know that for myself, this was nothing other than worrying about worry, fearing the next episode of panic, just fearing fear. The original problem/thought 5 hours ago may have been so unimportant, but afterwards, moods can linger without you realising. I spent so much time thinking 'what am i afraid of?' what am i anxious about? most of the time it is the fear of fear and nothing more. which is basically what anxiety and panic is about. The actual symptoms, that is. It is so easy to say but when you really deconstruct what anxiety is, you can began to understand it.
Of course, this is all from my point of view and from what I have learnt from books. I am only passing on information that to me has been crucial in feeling better. I would love to hear others' views. Especially any one who has in depth knowledge of this thinking/feeling thing. Feel free to blow my theories out of the water - I really want to be a Cognitive Behavioural Therapist so need all the info I can get
 

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amlangela said:
That is why I never drink coffee, alcohol or take drugs and strange making medications anymore... :D
Well, I won't be that strict as I love caffeine and alcohol high sometimes, but I learned something from last weekend. Never ever drink too much coffee and after that drink some cider. Unless...if I just wanna experience what real anxiety feels like, as even that is a human feeling. :twisted:
 

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amlangela said:
That is why I never drink coffee, alcohol or take drugs and strange making medications anymore... :D
Well, I won't be that strict as I love caffeine and alcohol high sometimes, but I learned something from last weekend. Never ever drink too much coffee and after that drink some cider. Unless...if I just wanna experience what real anxiety feels like, as even that is a human feeling. :twisted:
 
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