[coolwhip27]

Only sometimes am I actually aware of how hurt from the past I am. Things that stick out as failures to me which lower the overall consciousness of my mind. This trauma thing goes hand in hand with DP but it’s best to realize that only YOU can discover what lies in the deep hidden recesses of your mind, so that YOU can possibly overcome it.
For me, it’s a lot of battling between love and hate. I am tempted to harden myself so that I can not BE hurt from love and trust. That’s the nature of hurt, I wonder if you see that. The ones who use hate as a weapon have lost sight of what it’s like to be hurt. Numb to the pain and blind to the good.

 

[leminaseri]

Only sometimes am I actually aware of how hurt from the past I am. Things that stick out as failures to me which lower the overall consciousness of my mind. This trauma thing goes hand in hand with DP but it’s best to realize that only YOU can discover what lies in the deep hidden recesses of your mind, so that YOU can possibly overcome it.
For me, it’s a lot of battling between love and hate. I am tempted to harden myself so that I can not BE hurt from love and trust. That’s the nature of hurt, I wonder if you see that. The ones who use hate as a weapon have lost sight of what it’s like to be hurt. Numb to the pain and blind to the good.

bro. i will be very honest. i think i didnt get that much love from my mother. that being said she gave me only love, when i did something well in her own perception. this experience as a kid was the fundament for being insecure at school and other social environment. got mobbed. got hitted from random bastards i didnt even knew. once 3-4 guys put me in a big bin. i felt like everyone hates me, and i never knew why. i didnt have any ideals at life. didnt know what i want become later in life. i was talented at music and got props for my stuff. but then i began to feel myself very ugly. i really believed that people laugh on me on the street because im so ugly. then got the bad trip with spice (artificial cannabis) and became dpdr‘ed. 3-4 years of struggle but life went on. had some kind of a glow up. began to feel myself very handsome. and weirdly my dpdr symptoms vanished completely. great time about 5-6 years. but this time i was co-dependent. every simple flirt with another girl gave me very much emotional pain. this went on all the time. finally i came into a severe depression and relapsed with dpdr. now, i feel stuck anywhere between my 17th-23rd age. dont know what i want at life. dpdr is actually not a problem. i can do everything what (a normal) life requires. but it is kinda boring. lonely. emotional flatlined.. just wanted to rant a bit..

 

[Peter]

got mobbed. got hitted from random bastards i didnt even knew. once 3-4 guys put me in a big bin. i felt like everyone hates me, and i never knew why. [...]

but then i began to feel myself very ugly. i really believed that people laugh on me on the street because im so ugly.

Bullying at school often happens due to the vicitim being perceived as genetically inferior by his peers. This can be due to ugliness, being fat (or skinny), being small, low intelligence, being homosexual, being disabled, speaking in a dialect or even being of foreign descent. At my school words like "behindert", "hässlich", "Spast" (which combines both of the former) or "Schwuchtel" were common insults. It's no surprise that for example the youtuber Drachenlord receives so much bullying, because he combines several of these properties.

Unfortunately this response is to some degree hardwired in humans. Even babies react within a fraction of a second with disgust to ugly faces. I cannot judge whether you are ugly or you tick other boxes in the list above, but the reasons why other people hated you might have been beyond your control.

 

[coolwhip27]

Bullying at school often happens due to the vicitim being perceived as genetically inferior by his peers. This can be due to ugliness, being fat (or skinny), being small, low intelligence, being homosexual, being disabled, speaking in a dialect or even being of foreign descent. At my school words like "behindert", "hässlich", "Spast" (which combines both of the former) or "Schwuchtel" were common insults. It's no surprise that for example the youtuber Drachenlord receives so much bullying, because he combines several of these properties.

Unfortunately this response is to some degree hardwired in humans. Even babies react within a fraction of a second with disgust to ugly faces. I cannot judge whether you are ugly or you tick other boxes in the list above, but the reasons why other people hated you might have been beyond your control.

Eh. That.. doesn’t completely make sense. A negative reaction towards someone else (coming from a human who isn’t a baby) is not hardwired for anybody. By negative reaction I mean outwardly. Sure, we are hardwired with those inward judgments to a degree but nobody is hardwired to bully. That means nothing is beyond anybody’s “control” that way.

 

[coolwhip27]

bro. i will be very honest. i think i didnt get that much love from my mother. that being said she gave me only love, when i did something well in her own perception. this experience as a kid was the fundament for being insecure at school and other social environment. got mobbed. got hitted from random bastards i didnt even knew. once 3-4 guys put me in a big bin. i felt like everyone hates me, and i never knew why. i didnt have any ideals at life. didnt know what i want become later in life. i was talented at music and got props for my stuff. but then i began to feel myself very ugly. i really believed that people laugh on me on the street because im so ugly. then got the bad trip with spice (artificial cannabis) and became dpdr‘ed. 3-4 years of struggle but life went on. had some kind of a glow up. began to feel myself very handsome. and weirdly my dpdr symptoms vanished completely. great time about 5-6 years. but this time i was co-dependent. every simple flirt with another girl gave me very much emotional pain. this went on all the time. finally i came into a severe depression and relapsed with dpdr. now, i feel stuck anywhere between my 17th-23rd age. dont know what i want at life. dpdr is actually not a problem. i can do everything what (a normal) life requires. but it is kinda boring. lonely. emotional flatlined.. just wanted to rant a bit..

I relate to the co-dependent thing. Yeah, to be honest most my hurt comes from past failed relationships because of that very thing. Feels like i have borderline but really its probably mostly ocd
These hurts make me kind of a selfish person at times, thats the reason i said battle between love and hate. But really, thats major hurt for anybody. And, as for you, I hope those negative memories arent very important to you anymore.

 

[Ece9]

Only sometimes am I actually aware of how hurt from the past I am. Things that stick out as failures to me which lower the overall consciousness of my mind. This trauma thing goes hand in hand with DP but it’s best to realize that only YOU can discover what lies in the deep hidden recesses of your mind, so that YOU can possibly overcome it.
For me, it’s a lot of battling between love and hate. I am tempted to harden myself so that I can not BE hurt from love and trust. That’s the nature of hurt, I wonder if you see that. The ones who use hate as a weapon have lost sight of what it’s like to be hurt. Numb to the pain and blind to the good.

My past plays a huge role in getting dp. My childhood actually. I haven't experienced a serious trauma but the constant anxiety I had due to bullying in middle school must have triggered it. I was so nervous about going to school and even had chest pain. There was a friend who hated me for no reason. She was very insecure of her being overweight and always humiliated me in a group of friends, probably to distract attention from her. Some of the other classmates disliked me too and were calling me ugly. It's important to know that you don't t actually have to be ugly so the bullies call you so, you might look different than they are. People usually like people that are similar to them. None of my bullies was pretty. They had basic faces and hated me because of my slightly crooked nose. On the other hand, my mother who raised me on her own was always hard on me. She still is but now I am so numb because of dp so nothing upsets me anymore. It wouldn't have been that serious only if I hadn't been very sensitive.

 

[leminaseri]

Bullying at school often happens due to the vicitim being perceived as genetically inferior by his peers. This can be due to ugliness, being fat (or skinny), being small, low intelligence, being homosexual, being disabled, speaking in a dialect or even being of foreign descent. At my school words like "behindert", "hässlich", "Spast" (which combines both of the former) or "Schwuchtel" were common insults. It's no surprise that for example the youtuber Drachenlord receives so much bullying, because he combines several of these properties.

Unfortunately this response is to some degree hardwired in humans. Even babies react within a fraction of a second with disgust to ugly faces. I cannot judge whether you are ugly or you tick other boxes in the list above, but the reasons why other people hated you might have been beyond your control.

none of them was the case. i was a very normal kid. i had have an iq test measured 140 at age of 7. i myself never knew why the other guys did that to me. it was because i was afraid of hurting someone else and they all knew that i wont do anything against them. if someone discovers his might on you, he will use that.

 

[Peter]

That.. doesn’t completely make sense. A negative reaction towards someone else (coming from a human who isn’t a baby) is not hardwired for anybody. By negative reaction I mean outwardly. Sure, we are hardwired with those inward judgments to a degree but nobody is hardwired to bully.

It's hardcoded, but it's not the only factor determining our behavior. Of course, you can use the higher developed parts of your brain and decide against your archaic insticts and therefore not to bully. But obviously many people do not. Otherwise bullying wouldn't exist.

That means nothing is beyond anybody’s “control” that way.

What I wanted to say is that several factors, of whom many are genetic and so beyond our control, determine how likable we are to other people and therefore susceptible to becoming a victim of bullying.

i myself never knew why the other guys did that to me. it was because i was afraid of hurting someone else and they all knew that i wont do anything against them. if someone discovers his might on you, he will use that.

Doesn't convince me. If you fought back, then they would simply form a group and put you violently back into your place.

 

[coolwhip27]

It's hardcoded, but it's not the only factor determining our behavior. Of course, you can use the higher developed parts of your brain and decide against your archaic insticts and therefore not to bully. But obviously many people do not. Otherwise bullying wouldn't exist.



What I wanted to say is that several factors, of whom many are genetic and so beyond our control, determine how likable we are to other people and therefore susceptible to becoming a victim of bullying.



Doesn't convince me. If you fought back, then they would simply form a group and put you violently back into your place.

You are way wrong about the fighting back thing. It’s not genetics that is going to make someone be bullied. Lol, someone at point A in their life who is being bullied someday down the road at point B may not be seen as weak prey, sooo. You’re generalizing and making it all out to be genetics, but that’s just not reality

 

[leminaseri]

It's hardcoded, but it's not the only factor determining our behavior. Of course, you can use the higher developed parts of your brain and decide against your archaic insticts and therefore not to bully. But obviously many people do not. Otherwise bullying wouldn't exist.



What I wanted to say is that several factors, of whom many are genetic and so beyond our control, determine how likable we are to other people and therefore susceptible to becoming a victim of bullying.



Doesn't convince me. If you fought back, then they would simply form a group and put you violently back into your place.

nah. i have experienced and seen a lot of things where for instance one guy who gets bullied all the time explodes, hits the bullier and even if he lose the fight the bullier never said anything to him again because then he knew that he wont just watch and accept. in fighting the goal is not always to beat the opponent. it is a sign to show that you wont let you tease

 

[coolwhip27]

nah. i have experienced and seen a lot of things where for instance one guy who gets bullied all the time explodes, hits the bullier and even if he lose the fight the bullier never said anything to him because then he knew that he wont just watch and accept. in fighting the goal is not always to beat the opponent. it is a sign to show that you wont let you tease

Exactly. And that isn’t genetical, it’s behavioral. Peter is making his genetical argument while using how someone looks as an example. But we aren’t God, so we certainly can’t box the totality of human behavior inside a model of genetics.

 

[Peter]

Exactly. And that isn’t genetical, it’s behavioral.

You are acting as if both were different things. But it's not. The exact same behavior can evoke totally different responses, based on how a person is perceived based on outward appearance.

Lol, someone at point A in their life who is being bullied someday down the road at point B may not be seen as weak prey, sooo.

This doesn't disprove anything, because genetics always intracts with the environment.

But we aren’t God, so we certainly can’t box the totality of human behavior inside a model of genetics.

By the way, I did not even do this. In my first post I said "often" and not "always".

nah. i have experienced and seen a lot of things where for instance one guy who gets bullied all the time explodes, hits the bullier and even if he lose the fight the bullier never said anything to him again because then he knew that he wont just watch and accept. in fighting the goal is not always to beat the opponent. it is a sign to show that you wont let you tease

Sadly sometimes bullies bully, because they want to see their victim explode. If there are multiple bullies or even the whole class sticking together, then the victim can not win, because he is simply outnumbered.

 

[coolwhip27]

You are acting as if both were different things. But it's not. The exact same behavior can evoke totally different responses, based on how a person is perceived based on outward appearance.



This doesn't disprove anything, because genetics always intracts with the environment.



By the way, I did not even do this. In my first post I said "often" and not "always".



Sadly sometimes bullies bully, because they want to see their victim explode. If there are multiple bullies or even the whole class sticking together, then the victim can not win, because he is simply outnumbered.

I don’t know what you’re smoking my guy but I’ll take some of it. Anywho, I see your point but I also see that it doesn’t amount to anything but a vague claim. Because that’s all it is. Sure, we are hardwired to a degree but that hardwiring isn’t even objectively the same for everyone across the board. Not only that, but since you’re saying this is only something which “often” happens, the actual importance in even mentioning the word genetics is out the window. Genetics now becomes an idea which is projected onto reality, meanwhile, nothing is black and white, and nothing is ever fully predicted by an idea. To see into the eyes of other people and how they think and judge will always be impossible sir. You’re reaching greatly.

 

[Peter]

Anywho, I see your point but I also see that it doesn’t amount to anything but a vague claim. Because that’s all it is. Sure, we are hardwired to a degree but that hardwiring isn’t even objectively the same for everyone across the board.

It is in many important areas. For example it has been shown that what is regarded as beautiful in humans is fairly uniform among different people and different cultures and can be objectified (for example facial symmetry). Like all animals all humans are born with a set of behavioral programs, that are hardcoded into our brains and which interact with the evolutionary higher developed functions, that allow us to intellectually stand out among all other animals. We aren't that much better after all.

The gist of what I want to say is that even if bullying happens due to a trait of the victim, this trait cannot necessarily be understood through a behavioral lense focused on the behavior of the victim. There are many traits, which can predispose people to get bullied, which are primarily driven genetically and manifest themselves physically, instead of being psychological (like "feeling insecure") and are beyond the victim's control.

Just like many victims of rape, people like leminaseri ask themselves what they did wrong to get targeted and they do so over and over for years. The answer could simply be, that the place, where they are searching - the "hidden recesses of your mind" - is simply the wrong place. Perhaps they did not do anything wrong themselves and the bullying wasn't their fault, although they attracted it.

Generally I do not see much value into looking into past "traumas" in order to solve depersonalization disorder. The idea that adverse events in your life are the cause of ongoing mental disorders is a psychoanalytic invention, that got discredited already decades ago. Even if they were a trigger, that doesn't mean that they are keeping the disease going. As an analogy of an organic disease think about tinnitus. Loud noise can cause tinnitus, which remains forever even when the noise is gone. Perhaps this works for stress and the brain as well.

 

[coolwhip27]

It is in many important areas. For example it has been shown that what is regarded as beautiful in humans is fairly uniform among different people and different cultures and can be objectified (for example facial symmetry). Like all animals all humans are born with a set of behavioral programs, that are hardcoded into our brains and which interact with the evolutionary higher developed functions, that allow us to intellectually stand out among all other animals. We aren't that much better after all.

The gist of what I want to say is that even if bullying happens due to a trait of the victim, this trait cannot necessarily be understood through a behavioral lense focused on the behavior of the victim. There are many traits, which can predispose people to get bullied, which are primarily driven genetically and manifest themselves physically, instead of being psychological (like "feeling insecure") and are beyond the victim's control.

Just like many victims of rape, people like leminaseri ask themselves what they did wrong to get targeted and they do so over and over for years. The answer could simply be, that the place, where they are searching - the "hidden recesses of your mind" - is simply the wrong place. Perhaps they did not do anything wrong themselves and the bullying wasn't their fault, although they attracted it.

Bs. The actual circumstances of any situation are never consistently the same. Here, I’ll prove it. An “ugly” person with a wild temperament decides to pick on a better looking person whom has fear in their eyes because the ugly one is aggressive. You’re attempting to draw a distinct line between unattractive and attractive qualities, and linking it to bullying. It also depends on where you are which is mainly what determines the people who are there. This whole idea of an unattractive person being more suspecible to bullying is, sorry, an ignoramus couch-thought idea. Not very well thought out. But I will allow your point of beauty and ugliness being able to exist on a scope, but that wasn’t my point. It’s not just about looks. Humans don’t just consist of physical manifestations, it is actually MOSTLY behavioral.

 

[ThoughtOnFire]

How Hard the Heart was Hurt when it Heard Hatred.

 

[Trith]

I think this debate between kind of nature and nurture is usually a dead end. I feel that usually people defend one side or the other depending on their past experiences and the narrative they identify with the most. I read that the number of studies defending nurture over nature exploded as a reaction to the second world war, just because it was good to have opinions very opposed to all those the nazis had. But that's just a narrative. Now the scale is moving back slightly from that position.

If someone says such a disease is caused by genetics and not traumas, many people will not like this explanation because to them it will mean that nothing can be changed and that they are hopeless. If someone says that the same disease is caused by traumas and can be solved by therapy, many people are going to dislike this explanation because to them it will mean they are to blamed if they are not better yet.
If someone says that criminals with schizophrenia are not responsible for their actions, many people are going to dislike it because they will picture a guy with schizophrenia who is responsible for his actions nonetheless and escapes his responsibily with a grin to the victim. If someone says that criminals with schizophrenia are responsible for their actions, many people are going to dislike it because they will picture a guy who was victim of a psychosis break, who clearly didn't know what they were doing, who were not in control of their brain and who are being lynched by an ignorant mob.

Just because we tend to identify with one narrative or the other, we will tend to stick to one opinion or the other. But the truth is it sucks to be blamed for your disease, it sucks to be hopeless, it sucks to be held responsible when you are not, and it sucks that some people use a diagnosis to escape their responsibilities. But we cannot go 100% in one direction just based on what situation we hate the most or based on the situation we identify with the most. I think we can find answers but it will never be simple. Also it's tempting to imagine that when one person expresses an opinion that isn't as strong as ours they automatically fall in the opposite category defending the other extreme, and then all parties end up defending extremes when they all started from a similar more nuanced opinion.
That's my two cents words of "wisdom".

 

[Chip1021]

This conversation reminds me of that terrible episode of “The Simpsons” many years ago when Lisa was inexplicably being targeted by a new girl who was a bully, and, wanting an answer to why, she discovers that this girl’s bullying is a response to “nerd sweat.”

I have these kinds of conversations with myself all day every day. But do you know what I really want? To be normal. To have normal people problems. Boss riding my ass at work. Gas prices too high (damn you Obama/Trump/Biden!!!). Losing that “spark” with my partner. Financial struggles. Hell give me an eating disorder or a nasty addiction. At least I could understand those problems. But this? Constant ruminating on mind and matter? Genetics and structure vs. meaning and acting? The nature of reality and what is truth?

Why must we be obsessed with all this? Why can’t we be boring like everyone else and be satisfied with those lame water-cooler conversations?

 

[coolwhip27]

This conversation reminds me of that terrible episode of “The Simpsons” many years ago when Lisa was inexplicably being targeted by a new girl who was a bully, and, wanting an answer to why, she discovers that this girl’s bullying is a response to “nerd sweat.”

I have these kinds of conversations with myself all day every day. But do you know what I really want? To be normal. To have normal people problems. Boss riding my ass at work. Gas prices too high (damn you Obama/Trump/Biden!!!). Losing that “spark” with my partner. Financial struggles. Hell give me an eating disorder or a nasty addiction. At least I could understand those problems. But this? Constant ruminating on mind and matter? Genetics and structure vs. meaning and acting? The nature of reality and what is truth?

Why must we be obsessed with all this? Why can’t we be boring like everyone else and be satisfied with those lame water-cooler conversations?

I already have plenty water cooler conversations. Obsessed with this ish tho? No, I’m not. He started it!!! (Jk)