G
Guest
·This subject has come up for me a couple times recently, in real life. I'm interested in what other people think........
Let's start with this premise: anybody should be able to say whatever they want, whenever they want to say it. For the purpose of this experiment we will call that "Freedom of Speech".
Example: have a situation going on where I work right now. One employee is exercising their freedom of speech by continually hitting on another employee. It doesn't appear to be threatening, or even harrassing. Seems to be just a bunch of suggestive remarks, giggling, that sort of thing. Mostly it's just bothersome, but has arrived at the point to where the productivity of of the target employee is beginning to suffer. Perhaps the only particularly interesting point is that it is a woman who is doing it. We have spoken to her not once, not twice, but three times about it. She doesn't seem to be getting the hint.
So, what to do? Should we allow this employee to continue to exercise her freedom of speech? Or should we rather allow the other employee his right to work in a professional environment, free from such stuff?
The best part in this case is, no matter what we do as a company - we lose. If we let her continue to say whatever she wants to say whenever she wants to say it, we will almost certainly end up losing a valued, productive employee. Not to mention being sued. If we fire the woman, which appears to be the only way to shut her up - yep, she'll sue us for sexual whatever.
Example 2: I was pulled over by a nice policeman the other day. Seems I was going faster than he thought I should be going. Fact of the matter is I was, but I was still annoyed I had the bad luck to be speeding in front of a cop. Plus it was in my '87 LandCruiser. The way I see it, if you can get a heap like that up over the speed limit, even in a frickin school zone, you should get a trophy, not a ticket. So, I had a decision to make: should I exercise that 'ol Freedom of Speech and tell this frustrated cowboy what I think of him and his cute little badge? Um....turns out I was not in the best of moods and did just that. Sure, I got to get out of my car and be patted down, delayed much longer than I would have otherwise, and received a very expensive citation which I might have been able to avoid had I just smiled nice and swallowed my pride, but nooooooooo. I'm an American. Have to say what I think when I think it.
Example 3: let's say I'm a member of DPSelfHelp, and there's this one member that for some reason really ticks me off. Say it's Dreamer (only because she is my buddy and knows I am only using her as an example). Say Dreamer posts something, and I respond with something like - gee D, that sure was stupid.
I can do that, right? Freedom of Speech allows for it. I can say whatever I want to say whenever I want to say it. She posts something I think is stupid, I have the right to tell her it's stupid.
Maybe somebody else doesn't like what I said that. They put up a response telling me I'm a dumbass. Which is fine.....Freedom of Speech and all that. Pretty soon the site becomes the best place on the Net to yell at other people, call them names, etc.
Freedom of Speech is great.
Example 4: This one was in the news here locally a couple of months ago...........say you decide you want to make life uncomfortable for someone. You make up a bunch of lies, turn out a stack of flyers and hand them out on the street corner. The target was a Cub Scout troop leader. Seems his ex-girlfriend was a little p.o.'ed and decided it might be fun to put out information saying he was a child molester. She ended up being arrested, recanting everything..........but the damage was done. People will never quite trust this man again. Freedom of Speech? Sure. There's nothing in those three words that require truth.
Discussion item: Freedom of Speech does NOT allow anyone to say whatever they want whenever they want to say it. In fact, Freedom of Speech comes with substantial limitations. And those limitations are completely arbitrary, and changeable. What's more, Freedom of Speech in not a God given right. It is something that is earned, and comes with sometimes substantial responsibility.
I get to fire a person at work, because their right to "Freedom of Speech" conflicts with someone else's rights. The result? Lost productivity and who knows how much in litigation costs.
I am the proud owner of a $380 (U.S.) traffic ticket. One which I might have avoided had I stopped and considered the responsibility inherent in freedom of speech.
I call Dreamer stupid. The result........the responsibility? I have made her feel bad and made myself look like the dumbass somebody else would probably call me.
Where I come from, Freedom of Speech is protected by the Constitution. Lots and lots of people have died protecting that right. However, "Freedom of Speech" very clearly does not mean anybody has the right to say whatever they want to say whenever they want to say it.
Freedom of Speech exists as a right, only if you are willing - and able to accept the inherent responsibilities. Which you cannot always do, because you do not have the ability to accept the consequences to other people of what you may say.
My thoughts? So long as what you say does not endanger, harm, or otherwise bother someone else - you are free to say it. Beyond that, and things get very fuzzy very fast, both morally and legally. And, in an exercise of my freedom of speech - I believe anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves, and has not spent near enough time in the real world.
Sorry this got so long, and it may be of interest only to me. I'm frustrated with the phrase "Freedom of Speech" these days though.
I guess in the context of DPSelfHelp, do you think each of us as members should be able to say whatever we want to say? Regardless of the impact on other members?
(psst - the correct answer is "no". This is a privately owned site, and nobody has any right beyond that conferred by the owner)
Let's start with this premise: anybody should be able to say whatever they want, whenever they want to say it. For the purpose of this experiment we will call that "Freedom of Speech".
Example: have a situation going on where I work right now. One employee is exercising their freedom of speech by continually hitting on another employee. It doesn't appear to be threatening, or even harrassing. Seems to be just a bunch of suggestive remarks, giggling, that sort of thing. Mostly it's just bothersome, but has arrived at the point to where the productivity of of the target employee is beginning to suffer. Perhaps the only particularly interesting point is that it is a woman who is doing it. We have spoken to her not once, not twice, but three times about it. She doesn't seem to be getting the hint.
So, what to do? Should we allow this employee to continue to exercise her freedom of speech? Or should we rather allow the other employee his right to work in a professional environment, free from such stuff?
The best part in this case is, no matter what we do as a company - we lose. If we let her continue to say whatever she wants to say whenever she wants to say it, we will almost certainly end up losing a valued, productive employee. Not to mention being sued. If we fire the woman, which appears to be the only way to shut her up - yep, she'll sue us for sexual whatever.
Example 2: I was pulled over by a nice policeman the other day. Seems I was going faster than he thought I should be going. Fact of the matter is I was, but I was still annoyed I had the bad luck to be speeding in front of a cop. Plus it was in my '87 LandCruiser. The way I see it, if you can get a heap like that up over the speed limit, even in a frickin school zone, you should get a trophy, not a ticket. So, I had a decision to make: should I exercise that 'ol Freedom of Speech and tell this frustrated cowboy what I think of him and his cute little badge? Um....turns out I was not in the best of moods and did just that. Sure, I got to get out of my car and be patted down, delayed much longer than I would have otherwise, and received a very expensive citation which I might have been able to avoid had I just smiled nice and swallowed my pride, but nooooooooo. I'm an American. Have to say what I think when I think it.
Example 3: let's say I'm a member of DPSelfHelp, and there's this one member that for some reason really ticks me off. Say it's Dreamer (only because she is my buddy and knows I am only using her as an example). Say Dreamer posts something, and I respond with something like - gee D, that sure was stupid.
I can do that, right? Freedom of Speech allows for it. I can say whatever I want to say whenever I want to say it. She posts something I think is stupid, I have the right to tell her it's stupid.
Maybe somebody else doesn't like what I said that. They put up a response telling me I'm a dumbass. Which is fine.....Freedom of Speech and all that. Pretty soon the site becomes the best place on the Net to yell at other people, call them names, etc.
Freedom of Speech is great.
Example 4: This one was in the news here locally a couple of months ago...........say you decide you want to make life uncomfortable for someone. You make up a bunch of lies, turn out a stack of flyers and hand them out on the street corner. The target was a Cub Scout troop leader. Seems his ex-girlfriend was a little p.o.'ed and decided it might be fun to put out information saying he was a child molester. She ended up being arrested, recanting everything..........but the damage was done. People will never quite trust this man again. Freedom of Speech? Sure. There's nothing in those three words that require truth.
Discussion item: Freedom of Speech does NOT allow anyone to say whatever they want whenever they want to say it. In fact, Freedom of Speech comes with substantial limitations. And those limitations are completely arbitrary, and changeable. What's more, Freedom of Speech in not a God given right. It is something that is earned, and comes with sometimes substantial responsibility.
I get to fire a person at work, because their right to "Freedom of Speech" conflicts with someone else's rights. The result? Lost productivity and who knows how much in litigation costs.
I am the proud owner of a $380 (U.S.) traffic ticket. One which I might have avoided had I stopped and considered the responsibility inherent in freedom of speech.
I call Dreamer stupid. The result........the responsibility? I have made her feel bad and made myself look like the dumbass somebody else would probably call me.
Where I come from, Freedom of Speech is protected by the Constitution. Lots and lots of people have died protecting that right. However, "Freedom of Speech" very clearly does not mean anybody has the right to say whatever they want to say whenever they want to say it.
Freedom of Speech exists as a right, only if you are willing - and able to accept the inherent responsibilities. Which you cannot always do, because you do not have the ability to accept the consequences to other people of what you may say.
My thoughts? So long as what you say does not endanger, harm, or otherwise bother someone else - you are free to say it. Beyond that, and things get very fuzzy very fast, both morally and legally. And, in an exercise of my freedom of speech - I believe anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves, and has not spent near enough time in the real world.
Sorry this got so long, and it may be of interest only to me. I'm frustrated with the phrase "Freedom of Speech" these days though.
I guess in the context of DPSelfHelp, do you think each of us as members should be able to say whatever we want to say? Regardless of the impact on other members?
(psst - the correct answer is "no". This is a privately owned site, and nobody has any right beyond that conferred by the owner)
