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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know this isnt the right forum but I need some advice on forced alcohol treatment. I have a family member that has become an alcohol enthusiast the last few months. He seems to be trying to medicate himself from his problems. He claims he can quit any time but I dont know. I know alcohol dependency can sneak up on you. Some of the members of my family want to have him committed. Should I go along with it?

I know from experience that the only way quitting works is if you want to quit. I hate to be responsible for taking away somebodies freedom. They want to send him into a 12 month program. I also worry what this person will do when he gets out.

Joe
 

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Can you research the program and learn a bit more about what kind of treatment they provide and then make your decision based on what you learn?

Are there community experts you could consult?

Isn't it up to a court to decide this? What role do you actually play?
 

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Talk to him about it. Tell him about how serious it's getting, how worried you all are, how it's clear he can't just stop when he wants to etc.

He might listen to the voice of reason and begin to change. It's certainly better than having him committed - he might not forgive some of you for that.
 

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Dakota fargoJoe. As you know there are different models of alcoholism. The Chem Dep people and 12 steppers subcribe to the medical model if I remember right,, the powerless over alcohol scenario, the black and white view if you will. My opinion, as well as my former doc who has her phd in alcoholism is that one has to be careful whose mercy you throw yourself to. She says the problem with so many treatment programs and AA is that a good many people who get into those programs are not true alchies but come to believe they are becasue the counselors found them to be according to their formula. They take on the thinking that if they have another drink they will die, that they are powerless over it and it is the source of all their misery. She says that in ten percent of the cases this is true. But for the many that do not fall into this category, when they are outside of their 12 step social fabric or if they have a drink, they tend to throw the baby out with the bath water and go over the deep end. They feel they have no "control" over this issue.. Her contention is that unless you are truly physically addicted or are hopelessly psychologically (pathologically) dependent, that one may only need to see empowerment in their situation in order to change. You say your family memeber has been drinking alot the last few months. Is this situational? divorce? loss of job? depression? One cannot always jsut blame booze and then claim one powerless and do interventions. It is not that black and white all the time. Sometimes yes, but most times no. AA and treatment have done wonders for thousands, but the failure and dropout rates are horrendous. Maybe partially to blame is this tendency to throw all folks into one model.

I was told by her that even though I was drinking heavya t the time that AA or 12 step would never work for me becasue of my need to contol things (ocd issues) and that I was too philosophical to buy into the higher power. Also I am one who needs self empowerment. She worked with me on my situation and I jsut CHOSE to limit my booze, which I did., and it was fine. This is the key for many. to have a choice. So often if you take away the choice from someone, they will focus on it as you know. Thirsty peoples thirst increases dramatically when they know they can never have a drink again. I know AA people reading this less than happy with what I am saying, but this thinking is indeed part of the therapeutic community. Not everybody fits the medical model.

If you do an intervention you risk pissing off your family member for life. You may even shove him over the deep end. You also could be saving his life. But you need to understand where he is at and who he is and what he is about. I would not rely on a chem dep counselor to make this decision. you are always up agaist a stacked deck when being interviewed by one (e.g. one is said to be in denial if he denies he is an alcoholic). I would rather let your member know how serious you folks see his situation and strongly refer him to a psychologist like mine in Fargo here who knows all the sides of the arguements and is able to truly diagnose. Chem Dep couselors are all too often former users themselves with masters degrees who see life bascially from their own lifes persepctive and their 12 step model, which works for many but not for all.

I am sorry for my rather unorthodox opinion here and for preaching it in my ignorance. I jsut have seen way too many people fail in situations where they did not fit.
jft
 

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I need to slow down my alcohol intake! It's starting to creep up on me. I'm gonna creep off of it! Tonight I'm gonna have one or two beers and tomorrow just one and stick with one for a week and then just try to kick it after that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well, our research has told us that he cannot be forcefully committed unless he is a an imminent danger to himself or other people. Even if he threatened to kill himself or another person its not enough. The law requires him to actually grab a gun before the courts will rule to have him forcefully committed. As crazy as it sounds I understand why things have to be this way.

I dont personally even believe this person is an alcoholic. I think if he keeps it up tho he could get himself into trouble. Im sort of in a situation right now where Im being pressured to go along with this. I just want some different opinions. Ive always believed that the only way a person can recover from this is if they truly want it for themself. In my opinion, forcing somebody to quit who doesnt want to will probably only make the situation worse. I dont know.

Joe
 

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dakotajo said:
Well, our research has told us that he cannot be forcefully committed unless he is a an imminent danger to himself or other people. Even if he threatened to kill himself or another person its not enough. The law requires him to actually grab a gun before the courts will rule to have him forcefully committed. As crazy as it sounds I understand why things have to be this way.
And thank God for that! To live in a society where TPTB ("The Powers That Be", for those out of the Internet-dialect loop) could arbitrarily commit whomever they felt like smells an awful lot like a totalitarian (or perhaps i should say Teetotalitarian in this case...) dystopia to me.

Joe, i think you know better than any of us what should be done in this case. I've never really agreed with these "intervention" methods. If someone i respected came up to me and initiated a heart-to-heart i would be much more inclined to go along with it than some sort of politically correct verbal gang-bang in my own home. DJ, what sort of person is this? How close are you to them and what is your honest assessment?

I drink "excessively" by any sane person's standards but if someone were to try and institutionalize me for it, i'd probably have them killed. What makes your friends think this person is a danger to himself and others? Please give more details...

s.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Sebastian,

I dont really know what kind of a person he is. I havent figured him out yet. His behavior has been very bad lately. He refuses to work and begs money from everybody for beer and ciggarettes. Hes only 24 so he might just need to grow up. I dont know.

I dont think hes an alcoholic yet. I just see some signs that remind me of the days of when alchohol had a hold on me. I know he gets edgy when early afternoon roles around and isnt happy until he cracks his first beer.

I dont trust the people that are pushing to have him committed. I dont believe they are doing things for his best interest. The whole thing gets real complicated. The people pushing this have a large financial interest in him so I dont know what to believe.

Joe
 

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Dear Joe,

When I first read your post I was thinking the person you were speaking of was much older...maybe an Uncle or your Dad. I was thinking, Wow, they think the guy needs to go away for a year...he must have been drinking for years and years. Then come to find out he's 24, isn't working and is begging money for beer and cigs. Hmmm...sounds like my lazy nephew so far.

Has anything else been tried with the guy? Maybe just a little talk therapy, attitude adjustment, no enabling of him to continue on his little beginner's destructive path? Why is it this one year commitment thing these people have on their minds? I agree with you...more than meets the eye going on here.

I hope you are able to get it straight in your head what position you want to take during the early stages of this family crisis. At the moment I have them coming out the yingyang and find that listening to everyone helps and then making my own decision keeps me from obsessing too much about the mess that surrounds me.

Hope things work out for your relative. If he is indeed full blown and out of control, well, I've had more than my fair share of alcoholics in my lifetime and it is hard on everyone involved.

Best to you and I do hope he gets the right type of help...whatever it may be.

Most sincerely,
terri
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi Terri,

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, there is a hidden agenda for the people pushing the committment thing..money. They need my family to take some legal actions in order for their plan to work and we continue to refuse. They threaten us with, "If something happens to him or if he hurts somebody else, it will be your fault". I know better. My guess is if they get us to help them make the necessary changes, they wont give a shit what happens to the person they claim they are so desperately trying to help.

Joe
 
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