[g-funk]

If I can?t be thin then I just don?t know how else to exist.

What happens when for so long you?ve had this image in your head about how you want to appear to other people, and that can?t happen? What then? I'm getting to grips with other areas of my life but this is such a stubborn little bastard.

I get so angry with myself for being so out of control and so disgusting.

Why have my symptoms been channelled into this area so much? I can remember the day it started. So long ago. How can we ever change and accept ourselves?

 

[person3]

You're betraying yourself

You're mad at yourself about something else. It's not the weight.

The weight problem exists because weight is a tangible thing that you can manipulate and control.

Often the real problem is things like your own feelings of powerlessness and such

are you an assertive person? Actually I should PM you some stuff but it will take a very long time to type out.

I would suggest, for now, Googling some stuff on assertiveness and assertive behavior on the internet.

I know it sounds weird and you're like "what the hell?" but trust me.

I've been through this too.

----

Also, you're indulging in a particular kind of hate. Basically like Janine pointed out in one of my posts, hate is kind of this endless abyss. and the more you hate and make statements such as "if i'm not thin, i won't exist..." well it's like saying "you know what, if such and such happens than I might as well die!"...it's a refusal to accept reality and wish death instead. When you get these feelings, the best thing you can do is stop right when you recognize them...i know it's so fucking hard...actually THE best thing is to get involved in WAY too many real life things (church, school, clubs...find any kind of club in your area...knitting, computers, etc)...meeting people...become super involved...not only will you be aware of how the world REALLY is, you will be aware of the kind of control you DO really have power over, the control to make choices and the ability to do talented things besides starvation...once you begin to find your OTHER talents the weight takes a back stage and eventually fades away.

 

[person3]

recommended reading:

"Odd girl out" (do a search for this one on amazon)

it's about the meanness of little girls

a lot of times the funny thing is that the weight issue is not even about attracting the opposite sex...it's about being in the "girl hierarchy"...it's about achieving the only type of power that most girls will let themselves have: the power of beauty. But if you think about the kind of power that guys go for: Business, education, such..

see, you're an incredibly powerful person. but you're investing all your power in your eating disorder. if you invested the power in learning new things, networking with people, starting up an organization or group (maybe start a local support group for eating disorders!)...you will realize that all those things are different ways of manifesting your power and you've just been hiding out in the "beauty-power" camp. You will realize that you are not alone...
you will realize that it's not even the men that are so up on your beauty

males have dominated society for years...and in a dominant society, the submissive group learns to hate themselves, and they fight each other to see who can be the most anti-self. In a male dominated society, women hate their masculine-ness because they fear the men won't like it...so they decide they hate it too because they don't feel powerful enough to live without a man...and they compete with each other to see who can be the MOST hating of themselves...the frailest, thinnest, deadest girl wins the contest...but she also is the biggest slave to her idea of men.

It's a phenomena of oppressed groups. Some of the most racist people in the South were not White protestants...they were white Jews! Why? Because Jews were already a hated minority group, so not only did they NOT want to make waves by supporting blacks, but they also wanted to show that they were BETTEr at hating blacks than the white protestants were. That way they were able to protect themselves.

Basically you're protecting yourself because you feel if you were just to be your normal self you would be hurt, attacked, oppressed.

Anorexia is your way of saying "No one can touch me. No one can hurt me."

and when you say "If i'm not thin than I can't exist" you're really saying: "I can't be myself. If I'm not able to show the world that I am NOT me, then I can't exist. I can't exist by being myself."

Pretending not to be yourself = DP.

So yeah this plays a BIG part in dp.

 

[person3]

also, when a member of an oppressed group hates herself and tries to be something NOT her (such as bone thin)...she is loving the domination that the dominant group (often times men or parents) have over her. Maybe not loving it, but she feel that she is so incapable that she MUST have someone dominate her. She feels that she would fall on her own.

"My whole life I was made to believe I was sick when I wasn't
Now I grew up, Now I grew up, that makes you sick to your stomach DOESN'T IT?"
eminem

 

[g-funk]

You know what's weird? On one level, I know that everything you say is true. Theoretically. A bit like in another post where I was telling Karine about not fuelling obsessions. But to actually understand something, not in text book terms, but in terms of how it relates to you, is really hard. To actually believe it is to somehow experience it, to KNOW it to be true. And I need this insight that self understanding brings. I've made progress in other areas with help from the guru herself :wink: and get the gist about narcissistic disturbances etc. But there is something I need to understand about this being thin 'thing'. I totally understand that it is a decoy. BUT I am yet to get around it, in that I can still only think or 'see' in this f*cked up mode.

I kind of hoped you'd respond, I know you get 'it'. I find reading really helps, so will look up the book you recommend.

A lot of the ideas you put forward kind of sound familiar too, so I will print this out and think some more on it. As for assertiveness. Outwardly, yes, quite assertive, not shy anyway. But I FEEL pretty insecure a lot of the time.

This was one of my first 'outward' or obvious symptoms, one that spilled over in to 'real life'. And also one that bothered me the least. Because, as we discussed before, I was able to manipulate this, able to achieve what I thought would make me happy. Obviously this is no long term answer, but it just got put aside after that. Other things became more important.

I see this on a short term scale in my everyday life, that immersing yourself in reality and having fun changes the way you see yourself and the world. But the foundations go deeper and it is a very deeply engrained part of me that will take more work, in some respects, to get 'rid of' than dp.

Thank you for your advice M

Gx

 

[Guest]

AH, little grasshopper, the Answer to your quandry is to be found in your footer.

One way we maintain grandiose self-expectations is to stay troubled. How does THAT help, you may ask (in your grasshopper-type voice). If I'm still full of symptoms or limitations or neurotic self-sabotage like body fixations, then I can still hold onto the dream that IF I wasn't like this, I could do anything.

If I hadn't had dp and been so screwed up in so many ways, I would have been a movie star. I WOULD! I was talented and quite a little looker when young....I had determination and presence and charm and acting talent. Nothing could have stopped me. Nothing. (well, IF I had been healthy).

If I hadn't had dp and been screwed up in so many ways, I would be a millionaire by now. I WOULD! People adore me and I have so many talents and abilities and I really understand how the world works - I'm good at getting what I go after, and IF ONLY, I hadn't been so ill, well I'd be writing this from my third home in Paris.

If I could get well, I would be unstoppable.

So I stayed sick, and crippled. I was miserable, yes. And handicapped beyond words. But in the depths of my self-image, I knew I was just unstoppable. (well, IF ONLY....you know)

I have no symptoms, kids. And I'm far from unstoppable, lol....I have some wonderful things in my life now, and I still hate my day job and still have lots of things to overcome. I've made peace with alot, but NOT ALL. I am not the unbelievably powerful and unstoppable creature I always KNEW I was (underneath my symptoms).

But....I'm free.

And one of the things I free from is my own self-delusions that the ONLY things stopping me from being one of the most powerful people alive ... were my symptoms.

Make any sense?

Love,
J

 

[Guest]

Hi, sc here. A guy, who fully realizes that eating disorders are far more prevalent amongst women than men. I do, however, live with a woman who has in the past and likely will again get into eating issues.
Not being a sufferer, I know I can't completely understand the psychology involved. I understand it's much less about weight and appearance and more about other things, though.
For my wife, that seems to be where she goes when extra stressed. We talk about it, and it's apparent to me that she does the anorexia thing when she's feeling badly about herself for some reason. Feeling that she is a bad person. Wrong. A failure. I assume that particular choice of self punishment also has roots in cultural matters - i.e. seeing stick thin models walking down the runway, beautiful un-chubby actresses in movies, t.v. etc. Society seems to be telling women they are supposed to be skinny.

It ocurrs to me I'm not even sure why I'm responding to this thread.....
I guess I'm just trying to offer some support somehow, just as I do with my wife. There is another thread going titled something like....."what is an appropriate weight for a woman?" Again, answering as a guy, I would have to say the best weight for a woman is what she is comfortable with - so long as it isn't too thin. Skinny women are for other women, not men.

My wife is 5'10", and I've seen her when she weighs less than 115 pounds. Don't know what that is in stones, or rocks or whatever you people measure with - but it isn't much when you're that tall. That happens when she is miserable about other things.
She and I have managed to talk her out of these episodes together, without professional assistance. For her, it seems to be directly tied to self-esteem. Something else difficult for me to understand - she is extremely intelligent, one of the funniest people I've ever met, and gee oh boy is she ever attractive. How can someone like that have any problems.............?
Anyway, I guess all I'm trying to say here is, while I may not understand the situation, I'm sorry you have to deal with eating stuff g-funk.
It must be terrible.

 

[person3]

Man janine look at my fear is life post...is that the same kind of unstoppable?

anyway

yeah, i think that we almost want to be sick as an excuse to say :"look. I really am incredible. you just haven't SEEN it yet."

well everybody's seen everything

and g-funk, you and i have our deepest secrets, the bottom of wells. those "one things" that we know we need to get around to changing. i'm still a bit hooked on adderall IMO. but at the same time when i use it i also can build confidence and such...i dunno

anyway

in response to:

I see this on a short term scale in my everyday life, that immersing yourself in reality and having fun changes the way you see yourself and the world. But the foundations go deeper and it is a very deeply engrained part of me that will take more work, in some respects, to get 'rid of' than dp.

no, you don't see it. You see...those short term things (which are obviously things, from the tone of that sentence, that you feel "above" doing...once again a delusion of specialness..)those things ARE the things you need to do. Yes, you must do these little things to immerse yourself in everyday life. It's the only way.

I've done some "work" and such on this issue, but the ONLY way that anorexia has decreased in magnitude for me was to go out and do things. Only this semester have I been really breaking some ground with it..a.nd it's because i've been doing so many things at the university..going to lectures, participating in clubs, events, sports fundraisers. Going out and studying with sorority girls, playing soccer...these things that I would have NEVER thought of doing..these things that I would hate and say I was ABOVE and that I was convinced had NOTHING to do with my eating disorder...those are the things that have made all the difference. Because the only way to really help an eating disorder is to focus on all the things that have NOTHING to do iwth your eating disorder. And it is hard.

BUT...I know you mentioned going back to school, and it will be really easy for you...even if you've done it before and such...go to every event you can, anything you see posted on the walls. Attend plays..go to a fundraiser...study with a classmate. Yeah it may seem juvenile and such but every time you're NOT doing these things you're indulging in self hate. You need to expand your horizons so that you have no excuse to think that "thin" is the only option to get you happy.

And janine...

i wonder...

not only do i know I never would have really gotten anywhere before dp...i'm actually thinking that because of DP I will be doing so much more with my life than if I have never had the breakdown!

 

[g-funk]

I'm still yet to cut and paste this thread and read it properly as have been really busy, but wanted to say a couple of things briefly. Or as briefly as someone who's preparatory school teacher called them a perpetual chatterbox

Firstly, thank you for you replies, it was good to get a guy's take on it too sc. I hope your wife continues to beat this demon.

My man's response was freakily astute - as I logged on we chatted about the my situation -he said 'what are you hoping for? that you will log on and someone will have posted the cure to your body dysmorphia?'
I was like, oh my god you're so right. Just like how I spent 20 minutes writing a post to Karine about the EXACT same thing (if you're reading Karine, you know at least I'm talking from experience -even if I am a hypocrite!).

You guys all have brilliant advice, but I guess I was expecting a sentence that I would read and then it would all suddenly be clear, get some insight and suddenly feel totally content and happy with the way I look. Total black and white thinking. A world of dichotomies. That bolt of lightening that we all wait for to release us.
Yes, it helps to gain insight and understanding but I have got to actually WORK on this. Stop USING it.
I went mountain biking today and did scary things and got dirty. Emraced my tomboy-ness. Felt good.

 

[person3]

yeah not having the answer can suck sometimes...

but at least that means you don't have to LOOK for it and you won't somehow MISS it!

 

[Guest]

G-funk, I know a few girls who have eating disorders.
Its a different way from dealing with feelings and emotions you cannot handle otherwsie. I think someone already said that it is a form of control, control you feel you dont have about other stuff concerning yourself or the world around you (but basically you are the one who interprets the world around you so it comes down to how you handle your own issues).
Anyway, its keeping you away from your anger, fear, sadness, grief, pain etc.
If you can work on those issues that cause these emotions (or have caused that in your life), the control for your self image (through eating) will lessen.
I know Ive written it down quite simplistic, but I believe it all comes down to this.
Like DP is a way of dealing with issues, eating disorders are as well. They have the same function.

 

[gem]

I read your post tonight and actually cried for quite a while. I know what you feel and I truly sympathize. A few years ago I nearly lost my life due to the horrible grip of anorexia. I thought I had nothing left to offer myself or anyone else. I had to fight harder than I have ever fought before in my entire life. Months in hospital did nothing for me. All my friends said god why are you doing this? They would say you are beautiful, you are smart, you are talented, why would you let yourself get this thin. It was the only thing I could control, at least that is what I thought. No matter what I did in life it was never good enough. There was the problem, the food the wieght was a cover up for a pain that hurt so much deep within my very soul. For over twenty years I have not been able to eat solid food and will never be able to eat solid food. The eating disorder is a life time fight for me. When life starts to hurt to much it shows it's ugly face again and again. I have stabilized over the last couple of years and I am fighting for to live. A normal day for me is waking up to an eating disorder that I have to keep under control, anxiety, depression, dp/dr, another physical illness recently diagnosed and a dying father who refuses to see me because he was ashamed of his daughter who he feels failed him. The anorexia beast is at my door right now waiting for it's return, but I will not let it happen again, I am going to fight to keep the wieght I worked so hard for. I am not a perfect woman and never will be, I am learning to accept me for who I am. It is what is in your heart that matters not what you look like, beauty resides in your heart and soul. Love who you are and accept who you are. I have learned the hard way that this illness and anorexia truly hurts. I will never be who I once was and just because I thought I was not good enough for others, I finally realized I did not have to be, the woman in the mirror staring back at me wants to live life.

gem.

 

[g-funk]

Thanks Wendy and Gem x

Gem, you are an inspiration!

 

[gem]

g-funk, thank you for the kind words. Believe in yourself. I know the road gets hard to walk at times but it is well worth it.

gem.