[kchendrix]

I was thinking about something today.. In my dreams, I am completely normal, all the time, don't self monitor, don't have dp/dr , anxiety etc.. I was just curious about the psychology behind that. Why wouldn't My dreams include the state I am in. Does anyone else have experience with this, that you are normal in your dreams. Maybe it means nothing, I guess currious more then anything.

KC

 

[sebastian]

I think this is just further proof of how, day-by-day, we bring on this state on our own through anxiety. I always think that if my life was even half as interesting as my dreams, i simply wouldn't have time to feel DPed anymore.

s.

 

[falling_free]

When I dream I don't have any dp at all.

Subsesently I prefer dreaming and sleep to the real world

 

[Dreamer]

I never understand this. I have DP/DR in my dreams all the time and have as far back as I can recall. Before age 16 or so, I can't answer the question whether I did or not.

Sometimes the DP/DR is far worse in my dreams than the everyday chronic DP/DR.

I don't understand this at all.

There is much variety on this. Some dream in DP, some don't, some do sometimes, etc. It's a mystery to me.

Best,
D

 

[Dreamer]

I think this is just further proof of how, day-by-day, we bring on this state on our own through anxiety. I always think that if my life was even half as interesting as my dreams, i simply wouldn't have time to feel DPed anymore.

s.

Again, this doesn't apply to me. When I was younger my life was wonderful in most ways. No love in my house, much loneliness and fear, but the rest of my life was heaven, despite anxiety/depression/DP. DP was really my only complaint, I thought anxiety and depression were "normal" feelings.

I always knew what I wanted to do with my life. I have passion for things. I have involved myself in my passions as much as I can. I have been in wonderful relationships and terrible relationships, but they were all worth it.

I don't see my DP as an escape from anything. Again, I see it purely as a chronic brain glitch, a perceptual shift. The fight-flight response gone haywire. For me, chronic. For others episodic, temporary, or ultimately "in remission" for good.

Best,
D

 

[sebastian]

Dreamer: No, you're absolutely wrong. It's anxiety. :lol: Just kidding. I know how that bugs you.

Actually, i do occassionaly dream in dp-vision as well, but i think that is just a case of me being anxious while i dream.

I have to say though Dreamer, i agree that it's very strange that for some this seems to be brought on by anxiety, whereas for you and a few others it seems (and i say "seems" only because i'm working with subjective data) to have a biological cause. I almost find it hard to believe that it can be caused by both nature and nurture. What other disorders are caused by either one or the other?

Bizarre.

s.

 

[MrMortgage]

up to about 2 or 3 months ago when I was dreaming I didnt have DP/DR in my dreams but I did know I was "sick" in my dreams. Like I knew I wasnt right.

but now when I dream I dont think that anymore. I'm trying not to think of my disorder as much.

Still hard to tell if its getting better or just staying the same.

 

[agentcooper]

mine is definately "nature"...i only get dp for 2 weeks out of every month and it is definately my pms weeks. hmmmm...just remembered that i never had it until i took a combo of birth control pills (ortho-tricycline) and allergy meds. so i believe that my dp was brought on by that and it continued because of my hormones. this is, of course, only in my humble opinion, since most doctors i've ever gone to have never heard of dp.

as to dp in dreams...i couldn't even imagine what that would feel like. does it feel the same as dp in waking life? speaking of the waking life, that is such a fantastic movie..and very appropriate for us dpers.

 

[Dreamer]

Dreamer: No, you're absolutely wrong. It's anxiety. :lol: Just kidding. I know how that bugs you.

LOL
8)

Actually, i do occassionaly dream in dp-vision as well, but i think that is just a case of me being anxious while i dream.

I have to say though Dreamer, i agree that it's very strange that for some this seems to be brought on by anxiety, whereas for you and a few others it seems (and i say "seems" only because i'm working with subjective data) to have a biological cause. I almost find it hard to believe that it can be caused by both nature and nurture. What other disorders are caused by either one or the other?

Bizarre.

s.

I've come to the point of giving up on debating Nature and Nurture. As many of my recent shrinks/fellow NAMI consumers/MHPs, etc. have said we can never really sort out Nature from Nurture in issues of mental health.

One of my shrinks said "40/60?, 50/50?, who knows! It doesn't matter at this point, let's get you functioning here, for the love of God!"

But it finally occured to me a while back ... several months back ... that I am almost positive I was born anxious, at minimum. Or rather this was part of my personality. Depression as well, and certainly the ability (or curse) to dissociate. I'm an overly sensitive person. Always have been.

My nutty family upbringing may have exacerbated my preexisting condition, or perhaps I inherited my problems from both parents (both very troubled) -- yet another variable!, it goes on and on.

The thing is, I am still ME. I am still Dreamer under all of this crap. I see the symptoms I experience as a neuropsychiatric condition... you can't separate psychiatry/psychology from neurology or cognition, etc.

Also, here's the Nature/Nurture example I always bring up....

For those who smoke cigarettes ... :shock: (I'm glad I never have -- or had a joint for that matter, I'd be long gone!)

1. Some are born to have lung cancer REGARDLESS of whether they smoke or not

2. Some are born to NEVER having lung cancer even if they smoke like maniacs

3. Some people are born with a PREDISPOSITION to lung cancer from smoking but:
a. If they don't smoke they won't get it
b. If they smoke they MIGHT

So Nature/Nurture is at work in biology all the time.

I am certain there are a combination of factors to everything. It's like Karma, or Mrs. O'Leary's cow knocking over the candle in the barn (or whatever, LOL) ...

Life is not simple, it is infinitely complex, and all sorts of things can go wrong with the human body from fetal development until we die.

Think of folks (a few who are being studied with fervor) who HAVE HIV but who have NEVER developed AIDS, etc., etc.

Sometimes I think, had I been born into the same family, but with a tougher predisposition, I'd have had PSYCHOLOGICAL issues, but not necessarily SYMPTOMS, perceptual disortions, anxiety, depression, etc.

End of lecture. 8)
D

 

[Dreamer]

mine is definately "nature"...i only get dp for 2 weeks out of every month and it is definately my pms weeks.

Makes perfect sense to me Agentcooper. Hormones are known to exacerbate emotional problems. Puberty (hormones racing -- onset time for many mental illnesses), Pregnancy, Post Partum (depression/psychosis, etc.), Menopause, etc.

as to dp in dreams...i couldn't even imagine what that would feel like. does it feel the same as dp in waking life?

For me, the DP/and DR is the same as waking life. Sometimes it COMES with anxiety as well, other times not. What scares the Hell out of me is it can be VERY bad -- in MY case, I can't speak for anyone else.

This has to do with the sleep/wake cycle -- changes in brainwaves in REM sleep, etc.

And again, we can't measure the severity of symptoms any one else experiences. It's subjective. But there will come a time when such activity will be recorded, I'm certain of it, as the PET scans back in 2000, etc.

This isn't to say though that I haven't benefitted from CBT and psychotherapy. I had a really messed up childhood and I believe my problems were REINFORCED/CONDITIONED. I have applied tremendous effort to swim upstream against this mess.

We are human beings. I am amazed we function as well as we do. Our brains in particular!

Best,
D

 

[Dreamer]

I have to say though Dreamer, i agree that it's very strange that for some this seems to be brought on by anxiety, whereas for you and a few others it seems (and i say "seems" only because i'm working with subjective data) to have a biological cause.

My answer to that is ANXIETY that is overwhelming/debilitating IS caused by some biological malfunction.

That can be treated in numerous ways.

But just think -- a normal human/animal response which is part of the fight/flight system (which helps us survive) isn't working quite right. Some people are simply more anxious than others.

Others have severe panic attacks.

My illness has gone through a million permutations since my teen years. I have adapted to the anxiety, to the DP/DR -- not ACCEPTED it, but learned to cope with it as best I can. This would be like learning to cope with chronic pain, etc.

Anxiety itself that is excessive, disabling, that interferes with functioning has to do with malfunction of the HP Axis. I have no doubt. None.

Unfortunately, panic can lead to DP/DR, and DP/DR can be part and parcel of other mental illness or "brain malfunction" if you will.

Some have it in varying degrees of severity. Some have chronic (such as myself -- it settled in for some reason) -- I have one DP friend who FEELS NO ANXIETY THOUGH HE IS CHRONICALLY DP/DR. I know this person personally. Anxiety is not his problem. I believe he is true PRIMARY DP/DR. This doesn't make him any less miserable.

As mentioned elsewhere, people have DP/DR that is not their main complaint. The anxiety is worse than the DP/DR. They would trade the former for the latter. I'd trade DP/DR for just about anything.

:shock: "Answered prayers..." I'd better not say that....

Just as all illnesses can vary in severity, so can DP/DR, anxiety, etc.

End of another lecture! Another sneezing fit leads me to the forum for distraction.

Best,
D 8) [/quote]

 

[boohoo]

I have dp in dreams but it's not the same as in life. I had a dream recently where I went to a restaurant and changed seats to the seat against the wall as the sound of chatter behind me made me feel too disorientated. But I don't actually feel the dp in my dreams, I'm just aware that I have it, in certain situations etc. Does that make sense? Also I have that thing, can't remember what it's called, where I can control what I'm doing in a dream, and wake myself up. Like when I was younger I had this dream where my brother got taken away by some people and I was saying to him, don't worry it's just a dream anyway, while I was trying to physically open my eyelids with my hands.

 

[agentcooper]

Makes perfect sense to me Agentcooper. Hormones are known to exacerbate emotional problems. Puberty (hormones racing -- onset time for many mental illnesses), Pregnancy, Post Partum (depression/psychosis, etc.), Menopause, etc.

i think a lot of people on this board doubt that dp/dr can be caused by anything but anxiety. i'm convinced that my dp/dr (when i have it) causes my mild anxiety.

 

[Guest]

Wow! With me what happens that is really weird is that when I have DP while awake, I don't in the dreams, and vice-versa!

 

[Guest]

I enjoy dreams, because they offer a brief reprise from my derealization. The down side is that sometimes they are so vivid, so traumatic, and so much subconscious material is released, that I begin to confuse them with reality. All too often I wake up dazed and shaking. I can't remember the last time I was truly relaxed.

My world is, quite literally, upside down. I used to be able to tell reality and non-reality apart like black and white, but now it's all a painful blur of grey.

 

[Martinelv]

I think this is just further proof of how, day-by-day, we bring on this state on our own through anxiety. I always think that if my life was even half as interesting as my dreams, i simply wouldn't have time to feel DPed anymore.

I know I'm Sebastian's stalker, but I have to agree, once again, with him here. I never felt DR/DP'd in my dreams. Perhaps because the content of my dreams are usually so extraordinarily bizzare, that it distracts my attention from the anxiety.

 

[Dreamer]

Perhaps because the content of my dreams are usually so extraordinarily bizzare, that it distracts my attention from the anxiety.

The down side is that sometimes they are so vivid, so traumatic, and so much subconscious material is released, that I begin to confuse them with reality.

This topic is of such interest to me, such a mystery, I was really paying attention to my dreaming the past few days.

1. I have always had very vivid, sometimes extremely disturbing dreams, since I can remember, since early childhood. Sometimes they are fun and wonderful, other times horrifying. They seem to be like stories that continue on and on and on. It seems I'm never NOT dreaming.

2. Last night I had an "enjoyable" dream. It was very vivid. Some sort of ridiculous story involving a trip to Scandinavia, it involved my first college boyfriend, I was able to read a paper in which a friend of mine was mentioned in the headlines, etc. I woke up no worse for wear.

The DP/DR were at my "normal" level.

3. I took a nap the other day.... now THAT is not a good idea. When I take naps my dreams do get more odd. I had a bad dream where I was incredibly DP/DR, everything was almost in darkness, though I was still somehow functioning. Things were even crazier in the storyline.

I also WAKE UP anxious. This tends to happen frequently with naps. Not with normal nighttime sleep.

4. Yes, when I have something MAJOR coming up ... and in real life have anticipatory anxiety that is often based in reality (most people would feel anxiety about the situation) ... I frequently can't fall asleep... my mind races... and when I do fall asleep the DP/DR is terrible. And as someone else mentoned here, I try to wake myself up.

My POV on this is that there is something about the sleep/wake cycle that factors into the DP experience as a dream is also really an "altered state of consciousness." -- no debate there.

I would love to be hooked up to an EEG machine while I sleep. I would love to see, when the DP gets awful, what might show up. I can't believe there wouldn't be something odd there, but I could be wrong.

Also, missing sleep ... getting only 3 hours, or even in college when I stayed up all night will always result in severe DP. The only way to feel better is to go to sleep.

OK, end of lecture on topic near and dear to my heart.

Best,
D :shock:

 

[livinginhell333]

sometimes i am normal in my dreams sometimes i have dp.

 

[revdoc]

I'm usually more depersonalised in my dreams than in waking life. My dreams are mostly profound frustration, like wading throgh marmite, hardly being able to talk or move because I don't know how to. Dreams are never vivid, nearly always grey, though not marmite coloured, or vegemite, which would be even worse.
Lamotrigine seems to have improved my waking life, but dreams have stayed the same.

(I actually like marmite, thinly spread.)