[lolwhat]

I decided to write this post as I am so sick of being in this state of sedation. At certain times of the day I feel like I got an overdose of opioids or some shit...

Anyways... research suggest opiate recetors are somehow involved in DPDR... I thought well let's make a simple test.. either it'll be a matter of too much or too little...

DPDR makes me feel very sedated some of the day... so I thought maybe I have too much endogenous endorphins floating around in my system...

So I decided to check:

Took 5mg of LDN (Low Dose Naltrexone) which blocks opioid recetors for 3-4 hours... which causes subsequent upregulation of beta-endorphin secretion & other related compounds by around 2-3 times...

Here's the result... I felt fairly normal and was communicating & feeling quite normal just after taking it...

But then 4 hours later I sit there and wanted to watch a video and BAMM... my mind goes f'cking insane... insane DP... visual delusions... feeling of going completely insane.. which came over me seemingly out of nowhere... and it was 5-6pm... my DP never gets that bad at 5-6pm...

Then I do what I usually do when it gets very bad.... I take some caffeine & do a hot shower... and it went back to more bearable DP/DR...

But for the next few days... (I took it on friday... now it's monday) I felt super sedated... like I fall into bed.. I dream all night and wake up and lay there super sedated...

Normally once I wake up I am so hyper that I can't fall asleep anymore... but now I can barely even stand or walk... like my legs feel like jelly or something....

And anything that spikes endorpins now... (sex/cuddling/ejaculation/eating) sedates the living S#*t out of me ... like I it's such a disgusting feeling that I can't stand it anymore lol... it's starting to make me angry a lot which kind of gets me out of it because seriously man.. it's just disgusting to feel this extremely sedated fog and not being able to give a f'ck about things & people you care.

So caution with LDN guys...

I didn't take the full or bigger normal dose of 12,5/25/50 mg because I don't want this to backfire and have my body upregulate my opioid receptors even more. But I might try it again just out of curiosity, but I'll first let the effects from the 5mg dose from friday settle down...

 

[lolwhat]

Tought I'll share this with you guys as this post got me into experimentation:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DrugNerds/comments/26zqro
Title:

I might be on to something in the curing of depersonalization disorder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization

For those of you who don't know, depersonalization is a disorder consisting of dissociation from the self and one's surroundings. To find out more, click the link or ask me as I have the disorder myself.

I've been doing some researching lately into the k-opioid receptor and its role in dissociative disorders such as DP. I've been interested in this because one of the only known treatments for depersonalization is naloxone, an opioid antagonist that binds to the kappa receptor. Naloxone has been shown to have a diminishing effect on depersonalization as shown here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11448093 Now everybody with DP knows about naloxone treatment, however it's not a very viable option as the effects only last a few hours before the depersonalization returns.

Here's where things get interesting though, salvia, as many of you are aware of, is a k-opioid agonist and exerts its effects through that receptor rather than the classic 5-HT. This has lead salvia to be classified as a dissociative rather than a psychedelic. Then I found this quote from psychforums.com:

"Lack of emotional awareness, depersonalization, derealization, dissociation

Kappa opioid network(fear) causes oxytocin and vasopressin supression. It seems mu opioid probably does this as well but at higher levels.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1665795

This causes lack of emotional awareness of others - lack of "empathy" in fearful situations. It probaly also causes lack of emotional awareness of self experienced as depersonalization. Even higher levels start to cause dissociation - which is infact desensitization - loss of senses. First you lose mammalian emotions(depersonalization - loss of familiarity with self, derealization - complete loss of familiarity) then, via a different mechanism, senses(dissociation). "

So in theory, a near pure kappa opioid antagonist such as JDTic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JDTic could potentially eliminate the symptoms more effectively than naloxone, which exhibits a relatively weak antagonization of the receptor.

 

[lolwhat]

Kappa opioid network(fear) causes oxytocin and vasopressin supression.

I find this especially interesting... I guess oxytocin is pretty important if you want to feel socially connected... so that might explain why there's no way to have a social interaction if your DP gets very bad and you feel like going insane...also you might not have any social motivation at all because people "feel" super weird or you can't make sense of the environment because depending on your DPDR severity you'll feel like the place you're in and the people you're with... like nothing makes sense & you just wanna get out of there. (assuming you're in a large croud or something)

 

[DPFighter]

Our best hope for this Kappa Opioid receptor antagonism to relieve depersonalization for the masses is the new med ALKS 5461 which is pending approval from the FDA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buprenorphine/samidorphan

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/alkermes-announces-fda-acceptance-for-review-of-new-drug-application-for-alks-5461-for-the-adjunctive-treatment-of-major-depressive-disorder-300630031.html

 

[Alias]

Hi, this is my first comment on this site. This topic sparked my interest due to personal experience with drug interactions. I'm curious to know if anyone else shares my situation (with drug interactions), or if OP (or anyone else with some interest/knowledge of neurochemistry) has any thoughts on it wrt this topic:

Background: I have DP/DR co-morbid with ADHD and PTSD. I take Adderall and Prozac as prescribed.

- I have never had any response to any opioid medication (before or after my diagnoses). They don't cause any side effects or work to reduce pain for me. So far, I've been given Vicoden, Percocet, Oxycontin, Morphine, Dilaudid, and Fentanyl with no effect.

- I have paradoxical drug reactions to stimulants and antihistamines. Stimulants (Adderall, Ritalin, caffeine, bronchodilators, and corticosteroids) all decrease my pulse/blood pressure and put me to sleep. Benadryl causes a violent panic response.

- I haven't yet tried an opioid antagonist, but like OP said, "anything that spikes endorpins now... (sex/cuddling/ejaculation/eating) sedates the living S#*t out of me"

This seems really promising, but I'm curious if something that blocks an opioid receptor would be effective for someone who doesn't process opioids in the first place. Does the k-opioid receptor process something other than the opioids listed above, or does it simply fulfill a different function?

OP: Out of curiosity, have you had any sedative effects from stimulants, or is it only endorphins?

 

[TDX]

Does the k-opioid receptor process something other than the opioids listed above, or does it simply fulfill a different function?

I guess none of the drugs above affects the kappa-opioid-receptor to a significant degree. They all bind to mu-opioid receptor.

 

[lolwhat]

Hi, this is my first comment on this site. This topic sparked my interest due to personal experience with drug interactions. I'm curious to know if anyone else shares my situation (with drug interactions), or if OP (or anyone else with some interest/knowledge of neurochemistry) has any thoughts on it wrt this topic:

Background: I have DP/DR co-morbid with ADHD and PTSD. I take Adderall and Prozac as prescribed.

- I have never had any response to any opioid medication (before or after my diagnoses). They don't cause any side effects or work to reduce pain for me. So far, I've been given Vicoden, Percocet, Oxycontin, Morphine, Dilaudid, and Fentanyl with no effect.

- I have paradoxical drug reactions to stimulants and antihistamines. Stimulants (Adderall, Ritalin, caffeine, bronchodilators, and corticosteroids) all decrease my pulse/blood pressure and put me to sleep. Benadryl causes a violent panic response.

- I haven't yet tried an opioid antagonist, but like OP said, "anything that spikes endorpins now... (sex/cuddling/ejaculation/eating) sedates the living S#*t out of me"

This seems really promising, but I'm curious if something that blocks an opioid receptor would be effective for someone who doesn't process opioids in the first place. Does the k-opioid receptor process something other than the opioids listed above, or does it simply fulfill a different function?

OP: Out of curiosity, have you had any sedative effects from stimulants, or is it only endorphins?

Are you chronically exhausted? Stimulants can be sedating if your catecholamine receptors are desensitized which I experienced too. Coffee is relaxing for me when I take it with lots of food.

 

[Alias]

I guess none of the drugs above affects the kappa-opioid-receptor to a significant degree. They all bind to mu-opioid receptor.

Thanks for the info. I'll have to do some research on the mu-opioid receptor and see what I can find. I guess I'll ask about the LDN.

Are you chronically exhausted? Stimulants can be sedating if your catecholamine receptors are desensitized which I experienced too. Coffee is relaxing for me when I take it with lots of food.

Yeah, I am chronically exhausted. Like you, sex/eating, etc. also have an extreme sedative effect on me. Stimulants have the same effect though, even on an empty stomach. I will have to look into the catecholamine receptors. I guess becoming an expert on neuroscience (out of necessity) is just another side effect of mental illness. Lol If I had known that, I would have just gone to school for psychology instead and saved some time.

 

[newdp]

Then I do what I usually do when it gets very bad.... I take some caffeine & do a hot shower... and it went back to more bearable DP/DR...

So - when I first read about DP, everything I read said to stop caffeine, so I did - are you saying Caffeine makes you feel better ?

 

[lolwhat]

short-term yes. long-term no. That's why I stopped few days ago.

 

[Foggyhead]

Im new here and wrote a post two days ago under "introduce yourself"!my headline was "derealization for 7 years (i guess). Anyway, im a women from Scandinavia who has suffer from DP,brain fog, chronic fatigue, numb emotions etc since 2011.when my son was born i was CURED almost in a instance, the recovery came 2 days after giving birth. My point is, i Think what you write about oxytocin/vassopression really is a key to recovery. Its sp important hormones for emotions and they are released in big amount after child birth and while breastfeeding. My brain fog and numbness slowly came back after stopping breastfeeding. Intresting, dont u think ?