Depersonalization Support Forum banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
638 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
one where your soul (or your central nervous system for scientific obsessed guys) just gets tired, and goes into a safe mode, where all your feelings and everything else what belongs to you (everything) just get dulled and if you process everything you gain back all the functions you used to.

second is where you completely digged in all the nature of life and the universe where you dont have any excitement more and it dies completely. you dont see any point in anything.
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: Aridity and Peter

· Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Level 3: You think you did not only figure out the secrets of the universe, but the greatest of all metaphysical enigmas itself, which is how to recover from depersonalization disorder and you believe that solution to be... acceptance. :rolleyes:
 

· Administrator
Joined
·
1,119 Posts
I don't think a simple model of two or three or four levels is possible to represent the vast spectrum of varying factors that lead to dissociative symptoms.

One of my closest friends and I had talked for years about our versions of DP/DR, thinking we were experiencing similar disorders. Come to find out years later we're probably feeling almost the exact opposite of things. The problem is that language is so very much limited and we use the same terminology to express what is actually different conditions.

I believe that everyone has their own case of mental illness. One person may relate to another on some things, but then not so much on others. Everyone is unique.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
If you're interested at all in polyvagal theory and somatic experiencing, the difference I think you're describing is between "freeze" response and "collapse" response. The freeze response is where "one foot is on the gas, one foot is on the breaks" - both your sympathetic (fight/flight) vagal is turned on at the SAME TIME as your dorsal vagal (shutdown). This occurs when you can no longer fight or flee. This is the deer in headlights, shocked out of movement but still very aware (perhaps hyper-aware). It feels tense, there is both extreme anxiety and extreme immobility, like a trapped feeling. I believe this is "phase one", it tends to be where people have alternating anxiety and DP, or where there's a frantic, anxiousness underneath the frozen feeling.

This is biologically different than "collapse". Collapse is when even freezing won't save you (think you're about to be attacked). Collapse is when an animal fully "plays dead", and has biologically different characteristics to freeze. In Collapse, the body is no longer tense or sending a lot of crazy signals your way - it goes limp and numb. All emotions are shut down completely in preparation for "death" (even if you aren't actually dying, your brain just perceived a threat that deeply). You may feel euphoric and completely blank out (blank mind might be a characteristics of his state). The body-brain disconnect is even stronger than it is in freeze - sensory information doesn't pass a certain level of processing. It feels like death.

I believe that you can also be somewhere between "freeze" and "collapse", it's just a matter of complex vagal nerve and electro-chemical signaling, etc.

Both are theoretically able to be moved out of, but it can be difficult.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
638 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If you're interested at all in polyvagal theory and somatic experiencing, the difference I think you're describing is between "freeze" response and "collapse" response. The freeze response is where "one foot is on the gas, one foot is on the breaks" - both your sympathetic (fight/flight) vagal is turned on at the SAME TIME as your dorsal vagal (shutdown). This occurs when you can no longer fight or flee. This is the deer in headlights, shocked out of movement but still very aware (perhaps hyper-aware). It feels tense, there is both extreme anxiety and extreme immobility, like a trapped feeling. I believe this is "phase one", it tends to be where people have alternating anxiety and DP, or where there's a frantic, anxiousness underneath the frozen feeling.

This is biologically different than "collapse". Collapse is when even freezing won't save you (think you're about to be attacked). Collapse is when an animal fully "plays dead", and has biologically different characteristics to freeze. In Collapse, the body is no longer tense or sending a lot of crazy signals your way - it goes limp and numb. All emotions are shut down completely in preparation for "death" (even if you aren't actually dying, your brain just perceived a threat that deeply). You may feel euphoric and completely blank out (blank mind might be a characteristics of his state). The body-brain disconnect is even stronger than it is in freeze - sensory information doesn't pass a certain level of processing. It feels like death.

I believe that you can also be somewhere between "freeze" and "collapse", it's just a matter of complex vagal nerve and electro-chemical signaling, etc.

Both are theoretically able to be moved out of, but it can be difficult.
thanks for your wonderful insights. very valueable content and yes i do believe in the polyvagal theory.

my whole dp stuff started 11 years ago with the fear of going schizophrenic. i somehow worked with that and got convinced that it wont happen to me. i lived more than 6 years so recovered that i didnt even remember how or what dp was. beginning of 2020 i got gradually in a major depressive episode and i felt unexplainable emotions i never had (such as meaninglessness and outburnedness) and my schizophrenia switch has turned again. but there nothing in the fucking world could reassure me. everything i perceived, thought or felt brought me to the conclusion :“yeah man the time has come, say hello to schizophrenia“. nothing nothing could give me the slightest reassurance not even professors of the clinic i visited. somehow the whole schizophrenia thing gradually went to the background and now i wouldnt even care about that hahaha. crazy stuff. i need to say, until i started with a ssri, the anxiety of going psychotic was present. the ssri completely killed the anxiety and every dark thought about going psychotic but with those all my other emotions went as well.. yeah man..
 
  • Sad
Reactions: Peter

· Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
thanks for your wonderful insights. very valueable content and yes i do believe in the polyvagal theory.

my whole dp stuff started 11 years ago with the fear of going schizophrenic. i somehow worked with that and got convinced that it wont happen to me. i lived more than 6 years so recovered that i didnt even remember how or what dp was. beginning of 2020 i got gradually in a major depressive episode and i felt unexplainable emotions i never had (such as meaninglessness and outburnedness) and my schizophrenia switch has turned again. but there nothing in the fucking world could reassure me. everything i perceived, thought or felt brought me to the conclusion :“yeah man the time has come, say hello to schizophrenia“. nothing nothing could give me the slightest reassurance not even professors of the clinic i visited. somehow the whole schizophrenia thing gradually went to the background and now i wouldnt even care about that hahaha. crazy stuff. i need to say, until i started with a ssri, the anxiety of going psychotic was present. the ssri completely killed the anxiety and every dark thought about going psychotic but with those all my other emotions went as well.. yeah man..
Aw, I sorry to hear about your experience. Was there something that led to the fear of schizophrenia in the first place? Maybe a family history? I can understand how terrifying that fear would be and why it would lead to dp/dr. That's crazy that you lived 6 years pretty much recovered. When did the symptoms start coming back? So is your dp/dr now pretty much just 0 emotions?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
The freeze and collapse state don't really make much sense to me, since it leads to prey simply giving up it's resistance to the predator. Biologically it would be more meaningful to fight until the last breath. On the other hand I'm not a biologist, so I may be wrong on this part. But even then I do not see any evidence, that both states correspond to depersonalization.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
The freeze and collapse state don't really make much sense to me, since it leads to prey simply giving up it's resistance to the predator. Biologically it would be more meaningful to fight until the last breath. On the other hand I'm not a biologist, so I may be wrong on this part. But even then I do not see any evidence, that both states correspond to depersonalization.
Sure, it's just a theory. But it is observable in the wild - many animals (prey) simply don't fight until the last breath, and their deeper defenses kick in once their bodies have expelled whatever energy was readily available to them. The freeze and collapse states are energy conserving, and slow the metabolism and also release intense amounts of endogenous opioids so that pain won't be felt. It seems that our bodies have a built-in painkiller if/when it is expected that we may not make it.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
The freeze and collapse state don't really make much sense to me, since it leads to prey simply giving up it's resistance to the predator. Biologically it would be more meaningful to fight until the last breath. On the other hand I'm not a biologist, so I may be wrong on this part. But even then I do not see any evidence, that both states correspond to depersonalization.
Also, the reason mammals don't seem to "fight" until their last breath, at least in part, is because it can actually be highly advantageous to freeze or play dead. For example, if we play dead, some animals are unwilling to eat prey that are already dead, so they will lose interest. Or, say, an animal has been fleeing until it runs out of enough energy to keep going, the body goes into freeze, and the predator might lose sight of the animal as it's no longer moving. In the meantime, it's possible that if the prey continued to fight or flee, the sheer force of energy exerted could physically kill them, so they need to start conserving.
Again, just theories.
As far as how it relates to DP, generally DP is caused by a subconscious (or conscious) perception of grave danger. That could be from trauma, drugs, panic, etc. Even if consciously you know you're not dying, your body is perceiving it and those deeper defenses of Freeze or collapse kick in.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top