[peaceboy23]

Thought I would post a description of DP/DR that I wrote a few nights ago...I'm trying to work on a description that would maybe begin to describe it to people who haven't ever experienced it (although this is, basically, impossible.) Even the words i use probably wouldn't even begin to let someone understand...sigh.

One thing that I have noticed with this beast is that, as Janine has said, I try to see everything that my unconscious mind processes. For example, say you are in a room at a friend?s house, you have been in the room before, many times, even. The normal person recognizes the room, and that is it. They are IN the room, and that is all. The person with DP/DR, at least as I see myself, is that I am not content with that. I start to question the very way that my unconscious and other senses KNOW that I know this room, and how they know this room. It extends to my thoughts as well. Most people have a lot of thoughts that flow through their minds, and these thoughts don?t bother them or even make them think. People with this beast, however, are constantly analyzing what thoughts they have, how they know they are having the thoughts they have, and are constantly trying to monitor every thought they have. (Janine described this as a mirror in a mirror in a mirror). Us Dp?ers freak out when we can?t place a thought, and we freak out at the amount of thoughts that we have in our heads. Then it all gets mixed up, and the unconscious becomes too conscious so we are constantly analyzing EVERYTHING that goes through our heads. Then we have, in a way, two different minds, because the normal seperation of the conscious and the unconscious merge into one, and it freaks the hell out of us.

Most people, and probably all of the people that are at the beach with me, are not like this. They are in this house, and see the house, know they are in it, have come to it and leave it and it all flows smoothly. They admire the beauty of the ocean, the smell of the salt air, the magnificence of the whole scene. People with this beast see the house, but wonder how they see the house, how they know they see it, and what is making them see it. They are digging into their unconscious and trying to mine gold when the gold is there for a reason, and it sure as hell doesn?t need to be taken out. Maybe a better metaphor would be trying to pull out a post under a house to understand how the house works, BUT by this foolish act, the house collapses. We don?t admire the ocean, we wonder WHY we admire the ocean, how we know that we can admire the ocean, how the admiration button in the brain works, how we know the ocean is really there, how we know that we can understand the fact that there is an ocean and that it makes a sound and puts off a smell. We are caught in thought, and sometimes this can be one of the scariest things, especially when it comes to when we start thinking how we know we are thinking and wonder how we think what we think and when we try to understand all the thoughts and various things that run through our minds. We try to overcome and understand the unconscious, when the unconscious is, as it should be, just plowing along, doing it?s job, UNCONSCIOUSLY.

Now if only I could find a way to really overcome this...it?s coming along very, very slowly, but what with my brother?s wedding and many other things, its? not going well.

 

[Sojourner]

You are quite good, you know, at expressing these things, Peaceboy. Do you realize that about yourself? You're a smart cookie. What are you doing in a grocery store? I mean you are SMART. You have a flair for the language and obviously are very intelligent. What's your plan for your life?

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming....

First, we do not have access to our unconscious except indirectly, so while we may think we are starting "to question the very way that my unconscious and other senses KNOW that I know this room, and how they know this room," we are not really accessing the unconscious at all. It cannot be accessed by our conscious mind. When you try to figure out how you know something, you are using your conscious mind and thinking. You are not dealing with your unconscious at all. Remember, any content of your unconscious can only break into consciousnes INDIRECTLY. We never, ever, ever see or experience the unconscious content -- least of all by thinking about it. Thinking is conscious activity. The unconscious does not "think" that way (if it thinks at all).

Second, are you familiar with the concept of "being in the present moment"? There's lots of information about it on the Internet. I can recommend some specific places if you want, but I can't do it now.

Third, tying the first point and the second point together, because you are thinking about HOW you think, you are still thinking. When you learn how to gently lead yourself in to being present to what is happening now, you cannot do that extra bit of thinking about HOW you think. Your mind can only do one thing at a time consciously. Therefore, you use your desire for health and your will to find health and provide yourself with health to motivate yourself to practice the art of being present in the moment. When you do that, your conscious mind is attuned to what is happening in the PRESENT, not in your memory, your desire, your confusion, your longing, your wonder, your insistence on knowing HOW things happen. No, you make a quite conscious decision to simply BE in the present moment.

There are exercises you can do that will demonstrate to you exactly what I am talking about. I don't expect this explanation to be much more than just words to you right now. But read it over a couple of times and think about it. You cannot think about more than one thing at a time. If you are present in the moment -- completely PRESENT to the smells, the sounds, the temperature, the colors, the people and what they are saying, and everything else that is happening in the present moment, you cannot be present to the part of your conscious mind that wants to know how you know. Remember that is your conscious mind. You cannot directly experience your unconscious mind.

Does this make any sense to you? If it doesn't, take a look at some websites (Google for "being in the present moment"). One that shows the influence of this idea of being in the present moment is not directly related to the general population, but gets across that this is a highly regarded methodology -- here, it is recommended for physicians: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract.

The way to stop what you want to stop -- which is the overactivity of your CONSCIOUS mind -- is to be present to what is happening OUTSIDE OF YOURSELF in the present moment.

Of course, you don't eliminate your inner life, but you use being present in the moment to turn off or turn down the overactive conscious mind when -- like now at the beach -- it gets out of hand.

 

[whiterabbit]

Peaceboy, just wanted to say that your description of dp somehow cheered me up because that's it! that's it! that's it! In my disconnected state, such a connection with the expereince feels really helpful. The constant wondering about how people naturally seem to perceive the environment and how they effortlessly know that they are in it is one of my obsessions. All the thoughts that you describe I suppose are the ones that anyone could have, in theory, without feeling that they are in Hell or in pain....I suppose I would add then that the thoughts are accompanied by the sensation of not being there, not being connected, not being able to respond and the constant analysis of this state and the behaviour of others around me who seem to be in the opposite condition - connection, responsive and there!

Thanks for your post, it really helped me, partly because yesterday I was expereincing these thoughts in someone's house. The thoughts were all kind of nattering on in the back of my head while I was conversing. Yet another voice was saying there is nothing wrong with you, what is the problem. Of course, the problem is all those thoughts about am I here, is the house here, how do I know that, it doesn't feel as if its here, am I taking in my surroundings, do I have a response to my surroundings and all that cobblers. And these thoughts are simply not in the minds of non-dpers and somehow your post made me appreciate this fact and be a little easier on myself for the wretched expereince. Thanks

 

[Brainsilence02]

I just wrote this: http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/viewtop ... 8011#38011

it might be the description you are looking for.