[Milan]

Janine,

You mentioned somewhere (probably in your book) that as you were recuperating and feeling better that you were able to bring back DP/DR on demand! How were you able to do that? I figure you would start by focusing inwards but wouldn't you simply bring on the symptoms and then have no control over them like us? Could you please explain the way you were able to do that as it may give us some insight on how we could manage our symptoms. Also, when you realised that you could control the DP/DR did that signal the end of the disorder for you?

 

[Guest]

If you want a "HOW TO" basically read any post here, lol....we are all experts at keeping ourselves in this horror.

I found near the end of my illness that I could conjure it at will, yes, but it was mostly by having certain thoughts/feelings that were unique for ME (things that bothered me so much, concerning my own self-image, my own view of myself - things that were my "hot buttons" psychologically and that I had tried so long to pretend I didn't really care about. IF I harped on those, the dp sprang back FULL TILT)

While it was a fascinating little game, I stopped doing it pretty fast, as it dawned on me it could be an evil trick of my mind to screw me back into dp world again. I do NOT advise it. But if you notice that it happens, USE the trigger that caused the dp to study/work on that area and realize that it is one of your key "Symptom producing Thoughts" that clearly needs to be dealt with in some other area.

Peace,
Janine

 

[Milan]

Janine wrote,

USE the trigger that caused the dp to study/work on that area and realize that it is one of your key "Symptom producing Thoughts" that clearly needs to be dealt with in some other area.

I need you to expand on this.

A trigger, for example, could be me focusing on my hands and trying to figure out/understand how these meat things that are connected to my body are moved by the will of my mind - strange feelings arise and then DP. This is a trigger but your saying that there is a need to work on some other area to deal with this trigger. What other area do you work on? I can't see the link. Sorry I need a little clarification .

 

[Guest]

We're talking about two different areas - that's why you're confused.

You're talking about DIRECT triggers (thoughts and self-observations and obsessions ABOUT the dp experience itself that cause or provoke DP to get worse. And you're totally correct, there are lots of those)

But the ONLY thing to "do" about those kinds of thoughts is to try to force them AWAY - to focus on anything ELSE besides the "hand obsession" for example. There is definitely no "work" or further thinking about the hand situation that is ever going to help. All focus and all thought on that area only increases the intensity of dp and its future "hold" on you and its connection to your hands, etc...it's an awful endless cycle.

I was talking about highly psychological type "triggers" - the kinds of stuff someone unearths in therapy. Then over time, as you begin to heal, you might notice that once you've learned some of your own particular "hot" buttons, IF you think about those subjects very intensely, then dp might come back (for a while, as you recover)

Example: I had a very high DP response to anything having to do with shame, or embarrassment. I had SUCH a high and inflated sense of myself (okay, well, yes, still do, lol! But now I KNOW it's a bit of a fantasy, not that I actually believe my own hype so much). When I was in the middle of thinking of all the ways I could change the world, all the FAME I would have, ALL THE ADORATION and power, etc....(remember, all this from someone who could barely leave her house, lol) then I felt good. I felt SAFE, alone in the grand delusions of my own soft little cocoon of lies.

If, right at a very vulnerable moment, for example I was at school and feeling scared, etc...if at that moment, kids laughed at me in the hall (or talked about me, making fun of me for being odd, etc.) and if I heard them...at times, that SUDDEN JOLT into reality could produce dp. The sudden stark juxtaposition of my Grandiose Soon-To-Be-Famous and glorious self in contrast to the outcast and misfit who nobody liked...that was a shock deep enough to my tightly wound defenses (of my own Extraordinary Self) that it made me "freak out" silently and desperately...who was I reallY? My own fantasy? or the girl people laughed at? Or neither? or both? I wanted to destroy myself, not the girls who laughed...hated ME so much for being the way I was, for being NOTHING (when secretly I thought I could be anything...). Point is, psychologically, there was too much disparity between how I NEEDED to think of myself and how I suddenly was forced to see myself.

Having nowhere to run, and with self-hatred mounting....enter DP. "I wasn't me" anymore...it was a kind of dissociation under siege.

Hope that wasn't even more confusing, lol...anyway,that was the kind of trigger I meant earlier.

Peace,
J

 

[bright23]

That was quite a profound response Janine. I relate to it deeply.

The difficulty of being currently "in the trenches" with DP is that these deeper, primary psychological triggers are obscured by ? guess what ? overwhelming alien from another universe type feelings. This is perhaps the brains' way of protecting itself from the damaging effects of our distorted and conflicted self image?

For this reason I highly recommend some form of talk therapy. I've done seven years of cognitive behavioral therapy and this has been instrumental in my recovery.

Janine ? Shame, anticipation of Fame and Self-Hate were the building blocks of my psychological misery as well. Its a relief that much of that is now in the past. Now I'm just busy picking up the pieces and rebuilding from the ground up. That's what life's all about for me.

 

[Sojourner]

You want to know what's wrong with you and what you are doing wrong?

Your first mistake is thinking that you have something called DP/DR. Oh, I know it's been "classified" and all; that's just for PR, believe me. Anyone who is truly aware of mental health issues knows that DP/DR is just an excuse for avoiding the REAL problem.

What is the REAL problem?

It's different for you than it is for me.

But you don't "have" DP/DR. Yes, you have the symptoms you describe, but that's not what you have. You "have" a serious, unresolved problem that your MIND and your BODY will not let you pretend does not exist.

In a sense, it's a good sign that your mind and your body got together and conspired to act jointly on you, because you are DENSE and you are ACTING STUPIDLY.

You are USING your symptoms as a way to avoid facing whatever it is that you are running from.

If you do not face what is REALLY bothering you, you have a good chance of going off the deep end. If you can "live" with your symptoms without getting medical help in the form of antidepressants, you are just building a defensive edifice that one day will crumble and reveal even more serious physical symptoms, some of which may indeed put you over the edge. It may be too late then to ever contact your mind.

Get help, you guys! Try antidepressants. What have you got to lose? Nothing. If they don't remove your symptoms, then you may have a psychological problem only -- but you still need professional help.

To me it is just stupid to try to deal with illness without consulting professionals who can help you.

If you continue to refuse treatment, you are not "on the verge" of going crazy -- you are already quite NUTS.

I am being deliberately provocative. I think all of you are funny, smart, and good-natured people. I *care* about you. This is why I write.

I wish someone had said to me what I have said to you when *I* STUPIDLY REFUSED TO TRY ANTIDEPRESSANTS. (Yes, indeedy, I am shouting.)

After starting antidepressants in 1993, I went back to school and got my master's degree and began a great career (I'm a technical editor and writer). I got my life back. No, it's not perfect, but evidently I have a physical illness that made it FEEL much worse.

Please, I love you all, please, please, please, please, please......go to a doctor and tell him or her how you feel, get checked, and if nothing's wrong, get a referral to a psychiatrist, tell him or her how you feel, get his or her diagnosis, and if he or she recommends antidepressants, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE try them.

Best wishes,

 

[Milan]

Ok - got it now (and thanks for being so honest). I think I couldn't relate because most of my triggers are what you termed DIRECT. My symptoms materialize or intensify depending on what I focus on. As for psychological triggers I can't seem to pin point any of those - maybe I've buried them too deep? I have really been trying hard on not focusing on the direct triggers. I have noticed that I'm getting a little better at catching myself 'testing for symptoms' then immediately getting my mind back on the 'focusing outward' track. I'm no where near good at it, I've just improved ever so slightly.

Sojourner I think you have to realise that meds may not be for everyone and before you say anything I'm currently seeing a shrink and have been taking an SSRI for the last couple of months. The main thing it did for me was fix up my insomnia and possibly helped (and I'm not sure of this) with taking the edge of the anxiety. As the DP/DR experiences that's more so related to how I focus on my environment and myself; no drug I believe would help with that and my doc seems to think the same. Actually the first thing he said to me was, "if meds could fix your problem you wouldn't be here!". He uses them as an adjunct with his CBT therapy. But I do agree that people should seek professional help ASAP. Here in Australia seeking therapy seems not to be as common as the US. This is a personal view but by what I can see every man, women, child and pet seems to be getting some form of therapy in the States. It took me a long time to admit that I needed to see a psychiatrist and when I did one thing he diagnosed was major panic disorder. I didn?t want to hear or believe that but it was true (I couldn't go to work for period of three weeks) and since then we have been working on improving the 'quality' of my mind. By all means please see a professional (someone that gels with you) and try different meds but be prepared as they may not be the answer to all your symptoms.

 

[Sojourner]

It's great to hear you're working with someone, Milan!

It sounds like many here, however, are foolishly diagnosing themselves, not seeking assistance, refusing medicine if they have sought assistance, and otherwise trying to literally "outsmart" their bodies and their minds. Just as you cannot will that your appendix stop hurting, you cannot will that disordered thoughts stop marching their way into your head.

Whatever the ultimate cause -- be it psychological only or physical only -- getting help may include medicine. In your case, you and your doctor have made a determination. That's the way it should be. We should never make decisions about our health on our own -- even if we were doctors ourselves!

I'm not having anxiety now, I'm all the way up to what seems like an obscene amount of Zoloft, but I feel almost "normal" now -- that is, I still have my so-called delusion about myself (see http://www.bddcentral.com/cgi-bin/yabb/yabb.pl), but I don't feel so awful. The delusion is at the same level it's been most of my life...and it's allowed me to at least live, and I'm going to try tackling the so-called delusion in my psychotherapy.

My psychiatrist might still think I am delusional, but as long as I am not having panic attacks, I hope he doesn't tell me to increase the Zoloft!!

LOL.

 

[Sojourner]

Sorry about the bad link:

http://www.bddcentral.com/cgi-bin/yabb/yabb.pl