[grant_r]

This topic is not like the other one. This one's about a common link between DP and being gay. Could homosexuality come in part from becoming DPed? I think there's a chance, but I'm not sure.

The reason I ask is that I don't know a time in my life that I haven't really not known one of the two, i.e. I've always known both, together.

Also, on the old forums, I know that someone made mention that their DP caused a rise in possibly otherwise latent homosexuality.

I also did a quick Google search, and from the looks of it, there's some link between homosexuality and dissociation.

What are your views? Please keep this thread CLEAN and RELATING TO DP. If you want to whine about homosexuals, do that with your friends, or if on this forum at all, please go to "That's Life" and do it there. This is for positive, relevant, helpful DP related material only. Thanks.

-Grant with an "R"

 

[grant_r]

This topic is not like the other one. This one's about a common link between DP and being gay. Could homosexuality come in part from becoming DPed? I think there's a chance, but I'm not sure.

The reason I ask is that I don't know a time in my life that I haven't really not known one of the two, i.e. I've always known both, together.

Also, on the old forums, I know that someone made mention that their DP caused a rise in possibly otherwise latent homosexuality.

I also did a quick Google search, and from the looks of it, there's some link between homosexuality and dissociation.

What are your views? Please keep this thread CLEAN and RELATING TO DP. If you want to whine about homosexuals, do that with your friends, or if on this forum at all, please go to "That's Life" and do it there. This is for positive, relevant, helpful DP related material only. Thanks.

-Grant with an "R"

 

[Guest]

Bold move Grant. I applaud your courage. My response will be (relatively) short, and to the point....
Your question - "could homosexuality come in part from being DP?" seems to touch on the "nature vs. nurture" aspect of a person's sexual orientation. Are we born gay or straight, or is it a result of psychological forces or choice.
Certainly depersonalization changes an individual's perception of themselves. Having a fuzzy sense of who you are will naturally cause much questioning, doubting, etc. There is less black and white. That said - the self does continue to exist. Though those of us with DP find it difficult to remain in complete contact with ourSELF - that self does in fact remain.
I believe a person's sexuality is an instrinsic part of who they are, their essence. Such a basic part of the individual, that it transcends DP.
I don't believe DP and a person's sexual orientation are related.

In MY humble opinion - in the large majority of situations a person's sexuality is something they come into the world with. I realize there can be choices made by some, but for most it's in the hand they are dealt.

I will quietly slip out of this thread now, but will watch with interest as other responses come up.

 

[Guest]

Bold move Grant. I applaud your courage. My response will be (relatively) short, and to the point....
Your question - "could homosexuality come in part from being DP?" seems to touch on the "nature vs. nurture" aspect of a person's sexual orientation. Are we born gay or straight, or is it a result of psychological forces or choice.
Certainly depersonalization changes an individual's perception of themselves. Having a fuzzy sense of who you are will naturally cause much questioning, doubting, etc. There is less black and white. That said - the self does continue to exist. Though those of us with DP find it difficult to remain in complete contact with ourSELF - that self does in fact remain.
I believe a person's sexuality is an instrinsic part of who they are, their essence. Such a basic part of the individual, that it transcends DP.
I don't believe DP and a person's sexual orientation are related.

In MY humble opinion - in the large majority of situations a person's sexuality is something they come into the world with. I realize there can be choices made by some, but for most it's in the hand they are dealt.

I will quietly slip out of this thread now, but will watch with interest as other responses come up.

 

[Dreamer]

Dear Grant,

You said:

I also did a quick Google search, and from the looks of it, there's some link between homosexuality and dissociation.

I'd like to see any links you have on this topic.

My personal opinion is that this connection seems unlikely. I'd think one would hear more about this from the homosexual population. In other words if being gay and DP go together, it stands to reason that gays would report a higher incidence of DP.

From the most reputable sources I can think of -- Mt. Sinai, and the IoP in London -- I don't think they've ever seen that as a pattern. I could be wrong.

I can see how some theories might suggest that "sexual identity confusion" (there's something like that in the DSM, can't recall what it is) might be anxiety provoking for some, and hence perhaps cause DP.

I see both DP and homosexuality as givens. In other words I see more NATURE than NURTURE in them. However what percentage is still (and may always be) in debate.

I'd gather if one felt uncomfortable with being gay, there would be conflicted feelings and anxiety, etc.

I just don't think there's a connection, but I am FAR from an expert on this.

Best,
D :shock:

 

[Dreamer]

Dear Grant,

You said:

I also did a quick Google search, and from the looks of it, there's some link between homosexuality and dissociation.

I'd like to see any links you have on this topic.

My personal opinion is that this connection seems unlikely. I'd think one would hear more about this from the homosexual population. In other words if being gay and DP go together, it stands to reason that gays would report a higher incidence of DP.

From the most reputable sources I can think of -- Mt. Sinai, and the IoP in London -- I don't think they've ever seen that as a pattern. I could be wrong.

I can see how some theories might suggest that "sexual identity confusion" (there's something like that in the DSM, can't recall what it is) might be anxiety provoking for some, and hence perhaps cause DP.

I see both DP and homosexuality as givens. In other words I see more NATURE than NURTURE in them. However what percentage is still (and may always be) in debate.

I'd gather if one felt uncomfortable with being gay, there would be conflicted feelings and anxiety, etc.

I just don't think there's a connection, but I am FAR from an expert on this.

Best,
D :shock:

 

[Dreamer]

Also, I'm not saying it's easy to live with the lack of acceptance society dishes out. But it seems there are a good many gay people that do just fine. I have read however about teens who have become seriously depressed and taken their own life re: being gay. Especially if there is no family/social support of one's sexual orientation.

But again, you'd think statistics would reflect this, and I don't think they do, but again, I don't have enough knowledge of the topic to say anything with certainty.

I think whoever we are, gay/straight, we are also unique re: our mental health. I don't think there is a clear connection. But I could be wrong.

Best,
D :shock:

 

[Dreamer]

Also, I'm not saying it's easy to live with the lack of acceptance society dishes out. But it seems there are a good many gay people that do just fine. I have read however about teens who have become seriously depressed and taken their own life re: being gay. Especially if there is no family/social support of one's sexual orientation.

But again, you'd think statistics would reflect this, and I don't think they do, but again, I don't have enough knowledge of the topic to say anything with certainty.

I think whoever we are, gay/straight, we are also unique re: our mental health. I don't think there is a clear connection. But I could be wrong.

Best,
D :shock:

 

[nemesis]

I doubt that there would be a direct correlation between homosexuality and DP, but I do believe that there may be a higher occurrence of dissociative disorders in those who are under greater amounts of environmental and socio-economic stressors.

If you were to take the nature standpoint in the 'nature versus nurture' debate, you would need show evidence that certain brain regions (most probably the Amygdala as it is a common centre of malfunction in those who suffer from dissasociative disorders and anxiety) show a common pattern across the majority of homosexuals. You may also need to prove that this could be a contributing factor behind the lifestyle choices people make along with the disposition for a neurological disorder.

A long shot at best!

 

[nemesis]

I doubt that there would be a direct correlation between homosexuality and DP, but I do believe that there may be a higher occurrence of dissociative disorders in those who are under greater amounts of environmental and socio-economic stressors.

If you were to take the nature standpoint in the 'nature versus nurture' debate, you would need show evidence that certain brain regions (most probably the Amygdala as it is a common centre of malfunction in those who suffer from dissasociative disorders and anxiety) show a common pattern across the majority of homosexuals. You may also need to prove that this could be a contributing factor behind the lifestyle choices people make along with the disposition for a neurological disorder.

A long shot at best!

 

[jc]

[quote name="nemesis"] but I do believe that there may be a higher occurrence of dissociative disorders in those who are under greater amounts of environmental and socio-economic stressors.

gotta agree with this

 

[jc]

[quote name="nemesis"] but I do believe that there may be a higher occurrence of dissociative disorders in those who are under greater amounts of environmental and socio-economic stressors.

gotta agree with this

 

[Guest]

You've got it backwards, I believe.

Whether or not this is true, I'm sure the connection you're finding in the literature is not that dp causes homosexuality, but that when/if one finds oneself realizing homosexual traits in oneself, because of society and judgment and/or religious guilt-inducing stuff, the person may develop FEAR an/or ANGER about their own sexual preference.

That may, in turn, cause/create depersonalization as the mind's way of trying to deny Self, or who self is, etc...

Again, this may or may not be true, but if there is any correlation between the two, it's in this way.

Peace,
Janine

 

[Guest]

You've got it backwards, I believe.

Whether or not this is true, I'm sure the connection you're finding in the literature is not that dp causes homosexuality, but that when/if one finds oneself realizing homosexual traits in oneself, because of society and judgment and/or religious guilt-inducing stuff, the person may develop FEAR an/or ANGER about their own sexual preference.

That may, in turn, cause/create depersonalization as the mind's way of trying to deny Self, or who self is, etc...

Again, this may or may not be true, but if there is any correlation between the two, it's in this way.

Peace,
Janine

 

[kenc127]

I don't think so. I love women too much =)

Ken

 

[kenc127]

I don't think so. I love women too much =)

Ken

 

[JAG]

I imagine that lots of people would find it very difficult to be gay in society. Being gay in such a predominately heterosexual society probably could create certain anxiety-based obsessions or thoughts, which in turn could eventually result in DP and thus perpetuate the cycle of obsessive thoughts (especially about DP, itself). It seems that something that profoundly shifts one's perception of the self (such as discovering or consciously accepting one is gay, or in my case, smoking marijuana) could be a factor, or one of many factors, leading to the anxiety-DP-obsession cycle.

 

[JAG]

I imagine that lots of people would find it very difficult to be gay in society. Being gay in such a predominately heterosexual society probably could create certain anxiety-based obsessions or thoughts, which in turn could eventually result in DP and thus perpetuate the cycle of obsessive thoughts (especially about DP, itself). It seems that something that profoundly shifts one's perception of the self (such as discovering or consciously accepting one is gay, or in my case, smoking marijuana) could be a factor, or one of many factors, leading to the anxiety-DP-obsession cycle.

 

[Dreamer]

Dear Grant,
I noticed something a tad misleading in doing a random Google of depersonalization+homosexuality. The word depersonalization is used in a the sociological sense, a real definition, of being "ignored", or cast off, thought of has "a statistic."

How can I explain this.... people often say that members of huge corporations are depersonalized, i.e. they are so lost in the enormity of the corporation it as if they are no longer people (de-person - alized).

I believe on the front of the forum here, James put up a dictionary definition of depersonalization that explains this.

Also, when I followed some links, they merely led me to diagnostic manuals that happen to have depersonalization (one disorder) and a definition of homosexuality, which is not considered a mental disorder in the DSM now. It used to be. I don't recall when they changed it. But it certainly isn't in the current one which came out in 1994, ten years ago.

Also, there are many societal traumas that affect individuals as well has whole groups ... predisposition would have to be a factor.

If someone is gay and has some problem with it ... as Janine noted ... then there could be conficts about it that cause anxiety and possibly DP. I don't subscribe to Unconscious conflicts, but I can see how some young men and women might be deeply scarred by being attacked for who they are if they are gay. But that doesn't guarantee DP.

Someone can be in a near death situation and NOT get DP. Survivors, in New York, of 9/11 ... some have gone on very well with life, as many survivors of serious disasters, etc. Children who are viciously abused mentally and physical can emerge without DP.

There has to be Predisposition + Stressor (of many types) = Anxiety, PTSD, or DP, etc.

I don't think there is a direct connection.

I was thinking of the Hell of AIDS which as brought so many gay people into treatment with physicians since the 1980s. I would think that among all of their patients they might have found a higher incidence of DP... not due to the AIDS necessarily, but perhaps as a complaint lodged by gays in particular. I don't think that has ever been encountered. Doctors in the 1980s saw a disproportionate number of gays due to AIDS, and now the numbers include women and children and non-gay men, drug users, transplant recipients etc.

I would think that the AIDS epidemic would be a study for those interested in psychological impact of the disease, and that has been examined. I may be totally wrong, but I don't think one can say that gays have a disproportionate presentation with DP.

Again, I am NO expert on the subject.

As Janine would say, there may be far more in the psychoanalytic literature discussing Unconscious conflicts which could cause various psychiatric symptoms.

Best,
D :shock:

 

[Dreamer]

Dear Grant,
I noticed something a tad misleading in doing a random Google of depersonalization+homosexuality. The word depersonalization is used in a the sociological sense, a real definition, of being "ignored", or cast off, thought of has "a statistic."

How can I explain this.... people often say that members of huge corporations are depersonalized, i.e. they are so lost in the enormity of the corporation it as if they are no longer people (de-person - alized).

I believe on the front of the forum here, James put up a dictionary definition of depersonalization that explains this.

Also, when I followed some links, they merely led me to diagnostic manuals that happen to have depersonalization (one disorder) and a definition of homosexuality, which is not considered a mental disorder in the DSM now. It used to be. I don't recall when they changed it. But it certainly isn't in the current one which came out in 1994, ten years ago.

Also, there are many societal traumas that affect individuals as well has whole groups ... predisposition would have to be a factor.

If someone is gay and has some problem with it ... as Janine noted ... then there could be conficts about it that cause anxiety and possibly DP. I don't subscribe to Unconscious conflicts, but I can see how some young men and women might be deeply scarred by being attacked for who they are if they are gay. But that doesn't guarantee DP.

Someone can be in a near death situation and NOT get DP. Survivors, in New York, of 9/11 ... some have gone on very well with life, as many survivors of serious disasters, etc. Children who are viciously abused mentally and physical can emerge without DP.

There has to be Predisposition + Stressor (of many types) = Anxiety, PTSD, or DP, etc.

I don't think there is a direct connection.

I was thinking of the Hell of AIDS which as brought so many gay people into treatment with physicians since the 1980s. I would think that among all of their patients they might have found a higher incidence of DP... not due to the AIDS necessarily, but perhaps as a complaint lodged by gays in particular. I don't think that has ever been encountered. Doctors in the 1980s saw a disproportionate number of gays due to AIDS, and now the numbers include women and children and non-gay men, drug users, transplant recipients etc.

I would think that the AIDS epidemic would be a study for those interested in psychological impact of the disease, and that has been examined. I may be totally wrong, but I don't think one can say that gays have a disproportionate presentation with DP.

Again, I am NO expert on the subject.

As Janine would say, there may be far more in the psychoanalytic literature discussing Unconscious conflicts which could cause various psychiatric symptoms.

Best,
D :shock: