[coolwhip27]

I'm only here to try spread a little bit of what I think is useful in dealing with this disorder. I'm making myself write this, because in some way I feel like i'm just like all of you. I believe that there is some sort of underlying likeness when it comes to people with this disorder. I've had it for 6 years, and I still experience it, but I find myself out of it more often.

My best attempt at a short piece of advice is this: Instead of trying to escape it, don't try. AKA, instead of trying to "maintain" your sanity, or fix your DP, don't. Paradoxically, not trying to escape it might get rid of it.
DP is the illusion. Life is not. DP isn't real. Life is. .

P.S, The artist Eyedea (R.EYE.P), wrote a 2-part song about what I believe is this disorder. Some may disagree. (The dive part 1 and 2)

 

[Broken]

There is a book by Joey Lott called 'You're trying too hard', that is non-duality and spirituality based, but without all the lovely dovey poetic words. Just straight talk. You might enjoy it:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Youre-Trying-Too-Hard-Realization-ebook/dp/B01608MO3G/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=joey+lott&qid=1573046772&sr=8-2

 

[Al_pk]

Coolwhip bud you are right

 

[PerfectFifth]

My best attempt at a short piece of advice is this: Instead of trying to escape it, don't try. AKA, instead of trying to "maintain" your sanity, or fix your DP, don't. Paradoxically, not trying to escape it might get rid of it.

DP is the illusion. Life is not. DP isn't real. Life is. .

Sure, I agree that learning to live with it is generally the way to go, but what do you mean by "DP is the illusion. Life is not. DP isn't real. Life is."?

 

[coolwhip27]

Sure, I agree that learning to live with it is generally the way to go, but what do you mean by "DP is the illusion. Life is not. DP isn't real. Life is."?

But, i'm not saying learn to live with it. I proposed that in the event of you making an effort to not disassociate, it will inturn cause you to. Anxiety can be a trigger, intrusive thoughts can be a trigger, but they're triggers because your mind decides it's one.

By saying DP is an illusion, i'm not saying you don't experience it. I'm saying that the disconnection from your senses you experience is defined by a "trigger" only because your mind characterized that thought or feeling as one. It comes down to the same thing. And by living in the absence of these mind-characterization models, you're re-associated.

 

[PerfectFifth]

By saying DP is an illusion, i'm not saying you don't experience it. I'm saying that the disconnection from your senses you experience is defined by a "trigger" only because your mind characterized that thought or feeling as one. It comes down to the same thing. And by living in the absence of these mind-characterization models, you're re-associated.

Seems like an awfully convoluted way of communicating whatever it is that you're trying to communicate here. I don't have any "mind-characterization models". My DP/DR is a self-contained sensation. It's not triggered by anything in particular; it just is. It's a perceptual impairment.

I can occasionally forget about it, and I do so daily, but when there are inevitably fluctuations in its intensity, it'll automatically come to the forefront of my attention.

At that point, I have two options, either freak out and get depressed or annoyed by it, or accept it and carry on. Learning to live with it would mean the latter. Not noticing it is not an option.

Anxiety can be a trigger, intrusive thoughts can be a trigger, but they're triggers because your mind decides it's one.

Your mind decides? Okay. Then how would "your mind" un-decide? I don't quite see what you're saying here.

How would you decouple one of these events from their trigger status? If anxiety triggers your DP/DR symptoms, how are you supposed to counteract that effect? It's clearly not consciously brought about. You never decided, "I'm anxious; time to get DP'd!". It's more like a pain that arises whether you want it to or not.

Sorry, but you spoke a lot in that post yet said nothing. How is what you said not analogous to learning to live with it? Instead of taking stress from it, you accept it. If anxiety triggers your DP/DR, then it does, and there's nothing you can do about it. What you can do is mitigate your anxiety and/or change your attitude in regard to DPDR.

 

[coolwhip27]

Sorry, but DP/DR can't be "self-contained" to the point of having no cause and effect relationship. Whether or not you're aware of what's happening, is irrelevant. Learning that is apart of the process. Wake up

How would your mind un-decide? I don't know sir, tell me the ways of your mind. Stop putting the term "mind" in a box. By BEING your mind, you control it. And it's up to you to de-couple the relationship between anxiety/thought and it being a trigger. And that next argument is clearly ridiculous. Anxiety doesn't GIVE you DP. Awareness leads to thought. See where i'm going here?

And now i'm being told I said nothing because the reader is too ignorant about his own disorder to understand.

 

[PerfectFifth]

Sorry, but DP/DR can't be "self-contained" to the point of having no cause and effect relationship. Whether or not you're aware of what's happening, is irrelevant. Learning that is apart of the process. Wake up

I meant its causality is separate from active cognition. It's a passive sensation, such as feeling cold in a low temperature environment. You can't choose not to feel cold when it's cold.

How would your mind un-decide? I don't know sir, tell me the ways of your mind. Stop putting the term "mind" in a box. By BEING your mind, you control it. And it's up to you to de-couple the relationship between anxiety/thought and it being a trigger. And that next argument is clearly ridiculous. Anxiety doesn't GIVE you DP. Awareness leads to thought. See where i'm going here?

You, as an agent, only exercise control to a limited degree. If someone punches you in the face, is it up to you to choose if you feel pain or not? See, that's why you can't choose not to be depersonalized either. It's something that happens outside of your active control. That's why you can't decide that anxiety doesn't cause you DP symptoms. If it does, then it does-just like being exposed to a substance may cause an allergic reaction. It's a biological causal mechanism, something that's outside of your control. You can mitigate or prevent the symptom by not exposing yourself to whatever is causing the symptom (if possible), but you CANNOT sever the cause-effect relationship.

Anxiety doesn't GIVE you DP. Awareness leads to thought. See where i'm going here?

Why can't anxiety give you DP? It sure is able to cause physiological changes such as sweating, increased heart rate, increased (or decreased) awareness, and so on (or rather, these are caused by a surge of adrenaline/cortisol, but that's beside the point since anxiety is earlier in the causal chain). No, I don't see where you're going here. DP/DR is commonly construed as an anxiety symptom in many cases. Also "anxiety leads to thought" seems like an odd statement. Saying anxiety FOLLOWS from thought would make more sense, a specific kind of thought, since anxiety is a result of psychological distress in most cases, perhaps a disorder of the autonomic nervous system being an exception.

And it's up to you to de-couple the relationship between anxiety/thought and it being a trigger.

"It's up to you to decide not to be intoxicated after downing three bottles of booze".
"It's up to you to decide not to have your blood pressure rise in a state of anxiety/fight or flight".

Maybe you can teach me how to micromanage neurons in the brain in such a way as to counteract the autonomic functioning of your body? Clearly you seem to have such an ability based on what you keep saying.

 

[coolwhip27]

"It's a biological casual mechanism"

Were you born with DP? Lets say it is the "biological casual mechanism" that you speak of, lol. It's still a learned trait, and my point is that it's not impossible to unlearn. You react to DP by sweating and a rapid heartbeat, because thats your learned reaction. If you can somehow passively make your heartbeat rise, why can't you do the opposite?
Seriously though, lets not sit here and pretend like we know every single variable on how the human mind works. I don't think on models, I don't believe in models. The human mind is powerful.

I have "untapped" the DP reaction to these triggers before. How? I just do it. Somehow I "accept" these sensations as normal, therefore they don't do anything to me in the background. If it's a learned reaction, and it's in your brain, who the hell are you to say that it's outside of your control? How do you feel so justified in your idea that it isn't? Stop setting limits.

 

[PerfectFifth]

Were you born with DP? Lets say it is the "biological casual mechanism" that you speak of, lol. It's still a learned trait, and my point is that it's not impossible to unlearn.

No, but nothing about it was learned. It came on like any disease.

Somehow I "accept" these sensations as normal, therefore they don't do anything to me in the background.

And again how is this different from learning to live with the symptoms? It's a change in attitude, not deciding that anxiety caused you DP/DR symptoms yesterday (or a rapid heartbeat), and today it doesn't. You react differently to the symptoms.

Seriously though, lets not sit here and pretend like we know every single variable on how the human mind works. I don't think on models, I don't believe in models. The human mind is powerful.

Nah, but reason alone is enough to realize that you can't simply decide what effects anxiety has on your body.

If you can somehow passively make your heartbeat rise, why can't you do the opposite?

You can consciously increase or decrease your anxiety by way of cognition, thinking certain thoughts or occupying yourself with something that alleviates anxiety for you. This in turn will impact your heart rate. But what you're not doing here is changing the effects that anxiety has on your body; you're only manipulating the cause (anxiety levels). You can't decide that anxiety makes you hungry, for example, if it doesn't. Similarly, you can't decide that anxiety doesn't cause you DP/DR symptoms if it does! These are results of autonomic functioning that your (very limited) conscious agency can't impact.

 

[coolwhip27]

"It came on like any disease"
My DP didn't. Mine came from intrusive thoughts, and that sure as hell was learned. (OCD)
And just like the human mind, you can't place DP inside a box. Your disassociation from thoughts, however how, is provoked by neurons.
So no, it's not the same thing as other bodily diseases. For example, ebola never took place in anyone's brain.

"It's a change in attitude"
As far as you can comprehend it is apparently.

"You cant decide if anxiety causes you DP/DR if it does"
And why does anxiety give someone DP/DR? Because anxiety naturally induces it? No. So, why?
You said it was something that came on like any disease, but I disagree. As stated before, DP isn't a bodily disease, it's in your head.

I will try to agree to disagree, because this isn't getting anywhere anyway.

 

[PerfectFifth]

Your disassociation from thoughts, however how, is provoked by neurons.

I experience no dissociation from my thoughts. Seems like you're limiting your conception of DP/DR here, doesn't it? Moreover, everything is "provoked by neurons", every thought and sensation.

So no, it's not the same thing as other bodily diseases. For example, ebola never took place in anyone's brain.As stated before, DP isn't a bodily disease, it's in your head.

To me, DR is a perceptual problem. The way I sense my surroundings is altered, impaired. It has absolutely nothing to do with cognition (as opposed to passive perception). I don't see how ebola is relevant here. It's not a brain disease, so no kidding. That's not to say that DP/DR is not in some cases caused by some kind of physical brain anomaly-that is something outside of any neural activity related to psychology, again, as opposed to passive/autonomous systems.

 

[coolwhip27]

When I said thoughts, I meant whatever is taking place in your brain. My argument was that cognition influences perceptual process, and by disassociating cognitively, perceptual processes are influenced.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I don't disassociate from thoughts, i disassociate because of thoughts. Thoughts can be triggers Can anything taken through the five senses alone be a trigger, without any other rhyme or reason to it?
That is where the argument stops. My final answer is: Possibly, in my OPINION, no. As far as my understanding about MY experience of perceptual impairment goes, the thought that recognizes this sensory perception and labels it intrusive, is the trigger itself.

In your case, i'm not sure. I won't tell you that your DP/DR is in your control, as long as you don't tell me that mine isn't.

 

[Aridity]

Great Debate, but I have to agree with Perfectfifth.

 

[PerfectFifth]

I'm responsible for my existence and, unless I find some kind of way to make the disorder go away, it is responsible for its existence.

Even if you did find a way 20 years from now, you're not responsible. Like you said, you didn't willingly adopt the disease. Sure, if a guaranteed cure was handed to you for free and you chose not to utilize it, *then* it could be said that you're responsible for perpetuating the disease, and therefore for having it.

As for being responsible for your own existence... well, you didn't choose to exist either, did you?

Your parents would be responsible for that. If you meant being responsible for the actions you take *during* your existence, then yeah, sure.

 

[coolwhip27]

Your brain experiences disassociation however how, as a means of protecting itself. No, you never willingly adopted it. But disassociation came onto you as a result of something in your life, and finding the cure is a process only you have the potential to actualize. That makes the question of responsibility a hard one to behold.