[JAG]

Let's assume you have the symptoms association with DP/DR. Most of us here are quite aware of what they are so let's not delve into the definition. Now apart from fear and anxiety, what is exactly wrong with the reality-altered-like symptoms of DP/DR? It seems to me the debilitating factors are not the symptoms of DP/DR, but rather anxiety and fear.

 

[Guest]

Fear IS the problem for me. To me, DP = fear. And I am afraid of the fear. If I could become unafraid of the symptoms, particularly the fear - then I agree, it wouldn't be such a big deal. Either the problem would cease to exist, or it would be incorporated into my reality and I wouldn't notice.

Then again (for me anyway), this is like telling someone with a broken bone.........."so, if the bone isn't really broken, would it continue to be a problem?"

 

[Guest]

I'm with sc.

It's like saying "how bad would Depression really be if it wasn't for all that misery we feel along with it?"

The DP experience was a self-annihilation terror - the "details" of the experience all added together to scream "you....are....not....real (or here, or awake, or alive, or sane, fill in the blank)." Point being, the fear/feeling of self-annihilation was probably what CREATED the dp, not the other way around.

Peace,
Janine

 

[Guest]

Yeah, I think so too.

I mean, the fear of self annihilation is a big issue. What could be a greater fear than the fear of living one's own death or disappearing?

Now that you have mentioned it, Janine, and from what youve told me some time ago, I figure that it is this exact fear of self annihilation that created all the symptoms that I have.

It is not exactly the fear of self annihilation, it is basically that I was already living a life that was nothing but emotional death and in addition self annihilation in every respect, and as a result it brought about dr.

I mean, with me it is not the fear of self dissipation, its just that I was already living and creating it for me.

I think I can describe it like you once did, Janine, and still be referring to myself when I say: The basic reason for the derealisation is that "I can't be me".

 

[Dreamer]

Let's assume you have the symptoms association with DP/DR. Most of us here are quite aware of what they are so let's not delve into the definition. Now apart from fear and anxiety, what is exactly wrong with the reality-altered-like symptoms of DP/DR? It seems to me the debilitating factors are not the symptoms of DP/DR, but rather anxiety and fear.

No, I can't say that. The DP/DR themselves are incredibly disabling for me in and of themselves. And also, if I didn't have the damned symptoms, there wouldn't be something to be horrified about, IMHO.

Also, my overall mental health has changed over the years. These days, I posted somwhere else, I feel DP/DR (right now, this moment), and much despair. At this very moment I am not feeling anxiety. I'm feeling, hopelessness at what I have lost in my life.

But example. This summer I had a friend visiting, and we were getting ready (leisurely) to go to an Art Fair. I was excited about it, in a good mood. I had to go out to the car to get a map. When I opened the door to the ouside, I got slapped with heavy/duty DP/DR. I was angry really, not agitated, I said to myself, "Damn this. Walk to the car, walk to the car, walk to the car, get the map, get the map." The whole process seemed like it was taking an hour, and I forced myself (as I have done many times) to at least finish the task at hand.

I got the map and came back up to my apartment. When I was there I felt MANY emotions. Agitation, fear, disappointment, rage. I talked to my friend (who understands I "have problems") .... I "talked myself down". At the end of the whole episode. I was crying. I was crying about how much "not being here" has taken from my life. How going down to get a map in my car, I can be knocked out of the universe.

To me, the perceptual change is horrific, it is debilitating. The fear I have is that it won't go away, that I will be stuck feeling that awful, and the rage is that when the "bad" DP/DR goes away, then I'm stuck with my "everyday" chronic DP/DR and I'm not really living my life. Just existing.

My 2 miserable cents.
Best,
Crabby D

 

[rob]

JAG

course it fugking matters - the symptoms are horrible - it's like having your life taken away - fear is secondary - it follows the illness

rob

 

[dakotajo]

I disagree. Fear/anxiety/panic is primary...dp/dr is secondary. Its a symptom of anxiety just like muscle tension and heart palpitations althought Id rather have those symptoms than dp/dr.

Joe

 

[Dreamer]

My two cents on that. I believe DP and anxiety clearly have a connection, what that is I'm not sure.

However, as a little girl, I could bring on DP/DR whenever I wanted. I started to focus on my body, thought existential thoughts, "Who am I? WHY am I? What is it like to be dead?" and waves of DP would come over me.... but I wasn't afraid, as I was in control of the feelings.

I forgot I could do this. Looking back on my childhood I had DP I could control, then DP/DR that I later interpreted as feeling ODD and I didn't feel like doing things because of it (more attached to depression), and finally DP OUT of my control, which is terrifying.

I also have anxiety and depression. But my complaint from the get-go, my most uncomfortable, scary, debilitating symptom is what I called "feeling weird" -- DP/DR.

I can have DP w/out feeling anxious, such as at this moment as I type this. I'm chronic DP/DR and NOT ANXIOUS. I can also be anxious and my DP/DR doesn't spike. Other times it does.

There is some connection, stress generally worsenes my baseline DP/DR, but I don't think we can summarily throw the baby out with the bathwater. There is an anxiety connection. DP doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Best,
D

 

[Guest]

It's a circle. Again, just talking about myself here. My theory being that I became afraid. Too afraid for my regular coping mechanisms. Those defenses broke down - leaving me with DP as my only survival option.
DP and it's various sensations produce tremendous fear for me. That fear continues to feed the DP, which creates more fear, etc.
Add to that the typical background stresses of life (i.e. the easy stuff), and I just go round and round...........

 

[Dreamer]

But here's a question... why aren't we all on an anxiety forum then? There are quite a few people who suffer from serious anxiety in various forms but DON'T have DP/DR.

When I've visited anxiety forums, I "don't fit in", few know what DP is.

That's why we have a DP forum. It is a unique experience. It's chronicity for us, etc. Why have a DP forum, if this is just anxiety?

I like what rob said, LOL.

course it fugking matters

I agree! It is a hideous symptom that very few people fully understand. But I think we forget that we can all suffer from this in different ways. I feel great despair right now. Others are terribly fearful. Others have "adjusted" to it.
There is a spectrum here.
We're all.........for the 1,456,000,710th time....UNIQUE

Very Crabby Dreamer today,
Forgive

 

[Guest]

Dreamer wrote

for the 1,456,000,710th time

Did you really count? And you are sure you did not make a mistake?

 

[Guest]

I know this isn't going to help at all, lol....and ultimately Dreamer's totally right - each of us is unique!

But...when I say something is rooted in fear or anxiety, that is NOT the same thing as "having anxiety" or being aware of fear at all....many depression states originate in fear - the fear CAUSES a certain mental response, that response triggers bio-chem changes and those changes in tandem with psychological defenses, produces what we call "the result' i.e., the symptom.

I am NOT saying this is the root cause for all dp - but for those of us who DO have a dp based/rooted in an unspoken terror of self-annihilation, the dp in THOSE cases would have been the Result of that fear state (whether we consciously recall such a fear or not)

Peace,
J

 

[Guest]

Looks like this thread is going round in a circle too

Isn't it possible there is a point for everyone, every single person out there, at which a DP-state would be entered? Some trauma or series of traumas, be it an actual physical situation i.e. drugs or a blow to the head, seeing something terrible happen......or actually just thinking your way into it, something somehow that causes the person to arrive at a place mentally that is simply untenable? A place where the old defenses just don't hold up anymore?
The only logical solution, the only way to stay alive would be to remove yourself from the situation somehow. Dissociation provides a very effective way to do that. What's more, I honestly do believe that not only is there something that will push everybody into that place (though it is unique for each of us)...........but I also think nearly everyone has been there at least once by the time they reach old age.
The reason we are stuck in it is related somehow to fear. Fear of the symptoms - which are artifacts of fear themselves.
Why do some of us get stuck? As my Aunt Marie used to say (she was a nun) - beats the hell outa me.

 

[Matt210]

DP is fear... for me anyways. I honestly dont think it would be possible for me to feel DP without fear/panic. Even if its subconscious worry.. its always there. No DP couldn't exist without worry in my case.. but its impossible to seperate. I have to cure both my fear and DP.. living with just DP is not an option. I will always be afraid.

I see what you are saying with your post.. If we could just NOT be afraid of our altered sense of perception.. it would seem normal, and we would be normal. That is what DP is.. an obsessive fear that something around us has changed. Without the fear there wouldnt have been any DP to begin with.

 

[Guest]

i might get attacked for this but i think that i coulsd actually talk for everyone when i say that the anxiety id definetly primary to the dr/dp. no doubt, when you really sit and think about it, it is primary...the dr/dp is the breaking point to when fear becomes too much, yet we get this constant state of anxiety...its crazy none the less, but the anxiety/fear is most definetly primary

 

[JAG]

Well in my case maybe DP/DR has become ingrained in my personality or my perception of self. Not sure why. Maybe it has to do with going undiagnosed for so long. I definitely do have the symptoms, and was diagnosed one year ago by a psychiatrist who specializes in depersonalization disorder (there aren't many of those!).

I'm definitely not terrified of my DP. However I absolutely WAS terrified by the symptoms for about the first six years, so I am COMPLETELY aware what you guys are talking about when you talk about the horror of DP. I definitely don't doubt for a second you are terrified.

I've had the symptoms now for 24 years 24/7. I was so happy to find my so-called "disorder" had a name and that I'm not alone. But one difference I have noticed between a lot of you and myself is that I don't really fluctuate in and out of DP/DR. I have been DP/DR'd since it first started and it does not really go away (as far as I'm aware).

When I started my internet research I was not necessarily looking for a cure for the way I felt, because I had given up on such ideas. Instead I was looking for someone who understood how I felt from first hand experience. I was only looking for people who experienced life like me so I wouldn't feel so unique and alone. I never actually thought I'd find so many people with the symptoms nor find people talking about cures!

The most difficult time I've had with DP/DR, following the first six horrible years, has been accepting the fact that I experience the world so differently than so-called "normal" people.

 

[Guest]

What interests me is your apparent lack of fear. I am also a 24/7 DP kind of guy. But I am terrified 24/7 as well.
Somehow I feel that if I lose my fear of the sensations, I would no longer be DP. Because like I said earlier, to me anyway DP = Fear.

 

[dakotajo]

I still say anxiety is behind it all...every bit of it. When I read the posts on this board the only word that comes to mind is ANXIETY. I actually laugh when I read posts of people describing their mysterious "dp disease" sympotms which are nothing more than classic symptoms of anxiety. I think this whole board is a bunch of highly anxious people just like myself. People become accustomed to anxiety states. You can be chronically anxious and not even know it.

Joe

 

[dakotajo]

People here are in an anxiety state. Dp/dr pops up because of it then they become more upset and the anxiety increases along with the dp/dr. Im with Ashton that its nothing more than a primitive defense mechanism that becomes engaged during intolerable suffering. I have all the bizzare symptoms of dp/dr. The 2d,dark, corridor vision, ability to see all the debris on the inside of the my eye ball lenses, and the perception that im seeing my world from too far back in my head. Ive also come out of dp/dr when my anxiety,engaged fof state ended. It something that occurs during an anxiety state just like heart palpitations, or muscle tension. Nothing more, nothing less. Its not an illness and its nothing mysterious. Doctors that are researching it are just waisting alot of time and money. Anxiety is where they should direct their energy. A dp unit makes me laugh. I could care less about dp/dr. My main bitch is the anxiety. I just want to be able to relax like I was able to for the first 32 years of my life...before Klonopin.

Joe

 

[dalailama15]

Joe, I actually laugh at you telling me what I really have. You have no understanding about what depersonalization disorder is. It can certainly make one anxious to have to perform in world that has suddenly become like a dream, armed only with the momentum of a self that once was, but which now is just an empty space. It can certainly be depressing to watch your life drift by, un-lived.

Of course depersonalization can be primary, and probably is, for almost everybody on this forum. Anxiety and depression are much easier to understand, but people are here because those core symptoms of depersonalization (read them on the opening page if you are not sure what they are) resonate so deeply. They are here at dp selfhelp instead of anxiety selfhelp or depression selfhelp, because they felt a massive sense of relief when they found these facts of their own existence (the ones that make you laugh) not only defined, finally, but actually shared.

These facts, that you ridicule as ?mysterious,? ARE mysterious. (Again, if you?re not sure what they are, I refer you to the first page of this site) They are mysterious because they are hard to explain, hard to pin down. They are mysterious because there is barely a vocabulary that speaks to them--the words ?empty? ?unreal? etc. just don?t seem sufficient. They are mysterious because the only places one can find other than small circles (like this one) where people can actually understand the impact of these words, are in literature and philosophy. The are especially mysterious to a young person (the typical age on onset for this thing) who may be unsophisticated, and who only knows that their life is being disrupted.

This thing that doesn?t exist, this ?Mysterious? DP is indeed mysterious, because when that person, young or old, wanders into the office of some mental health so-called professional thinking ?my god I need help,? and tries to describe that their self and surroundings have become unreal, the odds are that they will face someone who won?t understand what they are talking about, won?t respond to it, and won?t take it seriously. The mental health so-called professional will be able to see that the person in his or her office is indeed anxious. Who wouldn?t be.

Of course depersonalization is primary, for those who recognize it in themselves. But one of the main things they will talk about is anxiety, and this shouldn?t be surprising. If people were out displaying symptoms of just depersonalization they would be poking people to make sure they were real. They would be behaving in wildly idiosyncratic ways because it wouldn?t matter since the world is a dream. They would be simply standing mute because they would have no self to do otherwise.

It is a key symptom of depersonalization disorder, and one we all understand, that reality testing remains intact. (This is also a little mysterious, since what people are complaining about is unreality.) So the symptoms of anxiety and depression will be the ones that are visible. And anxiety will be the easiest explanation for the whole mess.

Through the last 30 years it has been in my calmest moments, when I have reflected on what I am and where I have been, that I describe these primary symptoms.

For the majority of that time, these symptoms have seemed entirely unique. Try to imagine the feeling, after decades of this, of finding out they are far from unique, but are, in fact, stereotypical to this ?mysterious? disorder. Virtually to the letter. Understand that this feeling of revelation is also stereotypical to this disorder, not to anxiety disorders.

Of course, Joe, you can ?still say? what you like, and you can ?laugh? all you like, but this thing exists. Expect no further debate from me.