Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I do all the time and it makes me withdrawn and not wanting to talk to people, even though they want to talk to me.
Yes, I agree. But I also think that what's worth thinking about is doing things you really want to do and seeing people you really want to see.The thing i should do is interact DESPITE it, but I hate feeling false and not with it. Well I try to do this, yesterday I did see people but I just hate that disconnect observer feeling - and it made me feel depressed to be around people with it, to still be experiencing it after so long trying to overcome this thing, that today I withdraw. I suppose I just have to try again.
Definitely not. Your feelings are your feelings. They are as real as you are because you experience them. They may not be a correct perception of reality, but they are your feelings. If you want to say they are "an illusion," then nothing isn't an illusion and you are trying to catch your own tail. :lol:Maybe my "down" thing is nothing but an illusion.
They told me that, too, Jake, in 1986. We'll see how long I am without symptoms. One month now.Thats just me though..anyway I have been told I will need anti- depressants at least and possibly anti-anxiety meds probably forever and I am ok with it.
I don't mean it's "just" a feeling, as if to dismiss it. If anything, I mean quite the opposite -- I mean it is your feeling and it is valid because it's yours. That's all. Our feelings cannot be "illusions"; by definition, they are interior experiences that only we have. Nobody can experience our feelings. Nobody but us, that is. Feelings are not testable, refutable, or deniable. We have them and that's all there is to it. They are either unpleasant or pleasant to us. But what we conclude after having the feeling may indeed be flawed. In other words, to feel empty is not the same as being empty. It's a feeling about what is real, and that feeling can be inaccurate. It's a real feeling, but its commentary on reality may be false. That is, feeling empty is not the same as being empty. And of course the concept of being empty is really quite nonsensical. We don't mean we literally are empty -- but what we do mean (I think) is that we feel empty, which is an entirely different matter. Feelings are speaking obliquely to us about something that we don't want to face straight on because it's just so painful and scary (or so we think). But like in a scary movie, when we cannot bear to look straight on at a scene of particular gore, we will hold our hands up to our face and look through the narrow slits between our fingers, often we can use psychoanalytic therapy to get such a glimpse of what we fear inside ourselves and are afraid to look at. And often that thing is not really as scary to us at that moment, and thus we feel it's possible to look ever more straight on at it until one day we can see it more clearly for what it is. What we are running from is really not as scary and awful as we make it out to be when we are running away at top speed.maria said:Yes I feel empty, and I'm not at all sure that that's "just a feeling I have". If I wasn't empty, wouldn't I have friends (well I got one but we've known since high school so that doesn't count) and a boyfriend or something?
People I would find "boring" would not seek out others with whom to talk about these matters, in my opinion. You're probably an exceptionally talented and creative individual who is afraid of your feelings right now or finds them too unpleasant. Rather than experience what IS inside, you say there's nothing there. This is an excellent defense, because it does work -- for a time, that is.maria said:I have zero social life. (I sound like a 12 year old but I'm actually 22). I mean everybody else probably sees me as empty and boring a character as I feel I am. Often I think I'm just too stupid to realize how meaningless I really am.
Oh, great. (Thanks so much for responding, Janine!)JanineBaker said:Sojourner, the honest to God's truth is that you CAN'T know, lol....all we can do is try on the ideas offered us and we, over time, can determine whether or not they feel accurate.
I think I see. My therapist was explaining something about this to me on Friday. We can't KNOW the content of the unconscious but we can see signs of what it believes by what we believe today. So if I believe today that I am "bad" for having had negative feelings as a child, then it may be valid. But what if I can only see glimmers of it today. That, in fact, is what is happening. I'm starting to think that maybe I really DO feel that I am bad for hating my mother (or anyone else). Consciously, I don't feel guilty for "hating" and I am trying to figure out a way to have both loving and hateful feelings toward people, but I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to hold conflicting emotions toward people.It matters VERY little if you can access some memory of how you may have felt, because if you've repressed it, it's hidden. If you can relate to it NOW, as in, it makes sense to how you feel TODAY as an adult, then chances are good it has some validity.
Yes, this is precisely the point Pam was explaining. It's not remembering the memory itself but seeing the expression of a prior experience or feeling in myself TODAY. But I don't SEE anything saying that I feel guilty for hating my mother. I just don't see it, except for that momentary glimpse of something that MIGHT have been guilt. I cannot say that I feel I am bad for hating my mother, but I can say that I see something shadowy that might qualify only as a recollection of having had such a thought WHEN I WAS A CHILD -- not today, but when I was 10. Maybe the problem is just that I cannot find a convincing appearance of the expression of that belief TODAY. Why can my therapist find it, but I can't?But it's not really about recovering memories as much as recovering "truths" that we HOLD to be truths and that we may be continuing to deny day to day (and acting out instead, by some symptoms)
This is making me cry, for some reason, so there has to be something in it that is touching something deep inside. I sometimes just become overwhelmed by the whole thing. I mean, how can I verify anything about what are my real unconscious feelings? If I can't consciously see an expression of those in my life today, by what means can I ever actually know what are my unconscious feelings? I get overwhelmed by trying to nail this down.It makes great sense to me that the body dysmorphia is a form of self-hate and could certainly be related to guilt. But I also wonder if it's an identification of some kind. You MIGHT have identified with a mother so strongly that you felt was "ugly" in a symbolic sense, and taken on some of the same traits (in your delusion) as a rather thwarted way of staying connected to her (the loved/hated other).
I think I need to know more about the theory, because I think if I had a better intellectual framework, I could get more out of the therapy. I am analytic by nature, and I am all mixed up about how one should look at today's thoughts, feelings, and so forth. I understand that everything is a mixture of unconscious and conscious, but I cannot understand how we can say we discovered something that previously was unconscious if we are looking at the "evidence" with our conscious mind.Chances are that is where your therapist is leading. ANd if so, it takes time to test it all and see if it speaks to you.
Thanks so much! I'm thinking of joining a psychoanalytic forum that might offer information and discussion for lay people. I really do think that I cannot be a good patient without knowing more about the process and theory.DOn't worry about suggestion so much, as we humans are not NEARLY as suggestible as we think we are! LOL
Healing begins from understanding the illness. Whenever experiments is not proper (ethics, regulations, etc) to be performed on humans, animals are used (like mice). Experimenting means testing to see if it will bring results. If you don't test it, you don't know if it will bring results.Sojourner said:Try to always remember that medicine is an art, not a science. Healing is an art, not a science. Science is experimentation.