DO NOT DRINK ALCOHOL IF YOU HAVE DP/DR
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Interesting: I find alochol to be quite effective at shutting down my mind enough to not have invasive DR thoughts about existence and such, if I happen to be in that state.
It seems to push my mind via the brain into a different mode of thinking, probably through its tranquilising action (which makes me wonder wether the thinking problems are occuring at the higher brain levels...you know the, newer "not very well tested" bits above the reptile/animal bits)
Also lends credance to the notion that anxiety is a big factor for some people.
AM
It seems to push my mind via the brain into a different mode of thinking, probably through its tranquilising action (which makes me wonder wether the thinking problems are occuring at the higher brain levels...you know the, newer "not very well tested" bits above the reptile/animal bits)
Also lends credance to the notion that anxiety is a big factor for some people.
AM
Mule said:
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to drink.. or not to drink.
i dont get it. :roll:
i dont get it. :roll:
G
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·I haven't been drunk or stoned for a long time, I am too affraid that it will make things worse. Although it seems like it would help me out a bit and maybe make me have a good time. I would like to hear more about peoples experiances with alchohol, in a yay or nay fashion
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ive actually woken up at 6am wanting my mind to just escape me...ive just run and run as fast as i can around the streets trying to escape my mind.....thats the only way i can describe it,if i do have a drink now i can control the fear but its not nice at all........hope this doesnt sound nuts but thats how its been for me at its worst...i was basically feeling so bad i just wanted to escape the feelings and thoughts
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im in the anxiety-causes-my-dp boat, so alcohol is a delicious method to remedy anxiety temporarily. however, the price is so high. a hangover timewarps me back to the days when i was completely DPed out of my mind and i feel like that all day, no matter day after remedies i use.
for me, the train to intoxication city is out of service until i am 1000 percent done with anxiety/dp/mental games.
for those out there who want to recover, a good starting point is sobriety.
for me, the train to intoxication city is out of service until i am 1000 percent done with anxiety/dp/mental games.
for those out there who want to recover, a good starting point is sobriety.
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it affects some people negatively but some people handle it just fine. i'm one of the people who feel just fine when i'm drunk and the morning after. that's the thing about dp/dr, everyone has different triggers.
I hate to say it but alcohol is the only thing that effectively knocks me out of a dr/dp mode. Of course it does not knock me back to reality, but it alters things enough to where it is bearable. I say this mainly not to promote alcohol, for it is indeed the scourge and death to those who abuse it, but it behooves me to understand why it works so well but benzodiazapenes do not. If anxiety is the issue then benzoes should work. Booze works. Why?
jft
jft
I am contemplating whether or not to drink right now... it is Friday, I always drink either Friday or Saturday or both.
For me drinking helps me feel more real I guess you could say... I feel alive, no DP. Or maybe I just don't remember the DP. Whatever, it makes me feel good. But the next day it is hell. My DP is worse than before. It didn't used to be like that though. I used to be fine the day after, as fine as I ever am anyway. I blame the increased DP the next day on my old psychiatrist. He used to tell me how alcohol makes anxiety and depression worse after it wears off. And all the sudden it started happening. Or maybe it's just cuz I'm getting old.
For me drinking helps me feel more real I guess you could say... I feel alive, no DP. Or maybe I just don't remember the DP. Whatever, it makes me feel good. But the next day it is hell. My DP is worse than before. It didn't used to be like that though. I used to be fine the day after, as fine as I ever am anyway. I blame the increased DP the next day on my old psychiatrist. He used to tell me how alcohol makes anxiety and depression worse after it wears off. And all the sudden it started happening. Or maybe it's just cuz I'm getting old.
alcohol ? poor man's anti-depressant.
I think the real concern is how we use alcohol to feel better, to change our mood. Its worked often beautifully for us as it has for much of humanity for thousands of years. A perfect, though temporary escape
REAL concern is that most normally adjusted folk drink when they want to, and then they forget about it, and then they run into a bunch of friends and they drink again, and then forget about it again
If we need to drink to feel "OK," if we drink excessively every day, if we drink alone, or in other words totally CRAVE it, then we have a problem. Actually we have two problems, DP/DR and the early progressive stages of alcoholism.
There's plenty of people on this site that probably have a drink or two a day and get drunk only when they're out with friends. This is normal drinking behavior. If we frequently drink alone, and its more like 5 or 6 drinks... This is not normal, healthy behavior.
The problem with a lot of us is the compulsive aspect of our illness. If we transfer that compulsiveness to drink or drugs, the result can be quite disastrous.
I treated my DP/DR anxiety depression for years with drugs and alcohol and the end result was that it left me a complete mess physically, psychologically and emotionally. My problems were basically untreatable because of my continuous substance abuse.
So I'd say there's no hard fast rule. Just examine your own drinking/drugging behavior and you'll get an idea of where you are at with it. Do you NEED it, do it excessively and then feel like crap the next day? Over and over again, broken record? Sounds like a problem. Do you get drunk with friends, laugh and have a great time and don't feel like crap about yourself the next day? That definitely doesn't sound like a problem at all.
[/i]
I think the real concern is how we use alcohol to feel better, to change our mood. Its worked often beautifully for us as it has for much of humanity for thousands of years. A perfect, though temporary escape
REAL concern is that most normally adjusted folk drink when they want to, and then they forget about it, and then they run into a bunch of friends and they drink again, and then forget about it again
If we need to drink to feel "OK," if we drink excessively every day, if we drink alone, or in other words totally CRAVE it, then we have a problem. Actually we have two problems, DP/DR and the early progressive stages of alcoholism.
There's plenty of people on this site that probably have a drink or two a day and get drunk only when they're out with friends. This is normal drinking behavior. If we frequently drink alone, and its more like 5 or 6 drinks... This is not normal, healthy behavior.
The problem with a lot of us is the compulsive aspect of our illness. If we transfer that compulsiveness to drink or drugs, the result can be quite disastrous.
I treated my DP/DR anxiety depression for years with drugs and alcohol and the end result was that it left me a complete mess physically, psychologically and emotionally. My problems were basically untreatable because of my continuous substance abuse.
So I'd say there's no hard fast rule. Just examine your own drinking/drugging behavior and you'll get an idea of where you are at with it. Do you NEED it, do it excessively and then feel like crap the next day? Over and over again, broken record? Sounds like a problem. Do you get drunk with friends, laugh and have a great time and don't feel like crap about yourself the next day? That definitely doesn't sound like a problem at all.
[/i]
Well said Bright. Your words ring true. But I still ask, and I guess I am asking researchers here, why booze works for many here moreso, if not head and shoulders above, than any antidepressant or anxiolytic. Alcohol changes the dp/dr into an alcohol state, which of course is an altered state as well. It does not just reduce the anxiety, it brings forth a temporary bearable outcome to a bad dp/dr episode for many of us (not all of us of course). And of course this is why many of us wind up relying on it, some of us progressing into the never never land of true alcohilism. I suppose an opiate would do the same, such as injecting herion or morphine. All of these put us into altered states and feel good. But target medicines hit our supposed causes (obsession, anxiety or whatever) and really, in effect, are less effective,. if not useless, for many of us. And if psychotherapy or analysis is the answer, then I will be there, although it has not worked so far for me.
I am saying that maybe the "therapeutic" effects of alcohol should be looked at in terms of understanding the nature of dp/dr by the researchers. And I again stress here that I do not advocate booze as a medicinal option. I jsut wonder why it works, (for me and some others)
jft
I am saying that maybe the "therapeutic" effects of alcohol should be looked at in terms of understanding the nature of dp/dr by the researchers. And I again stress here that I do not advocate booze as a medicinal option. I jsut wonder why it works, (for me and some others)
jft
I think a possible answer JFT, is why does it work for everybody? I mean, why do people drink? I'd say beer is an acquired taste so, it wasn't our taste buds that kept us coming again and again. I think we're more similar with normal people in this regard than we realize.
Drinking removes social filters, we "relax" and say what we want (or sometimes what we regret.) It's a temporary euphoric, gives us an exagerrated view of ourselves and allows us to expand our social boundaries a bit. For many it gets us out of our head, out of our neurotic cycles, where we can "forget our problems." Zyprexa does not do this, nor any other psych med. And that's where the danger lies for those of us who crave it to an abnormal degree.
I don't think its too much of a head scrathcher because its been proven an exeptional escape route for humanity for millenia.
IF substance abuse is a real issue with us, then we must recognize that alcohol/drugs by nature are a temporary balm. THE greatest danger is that substance abuse is a progressive illness, and if you abuse, you will eventually get to a place where the drug no longer works for you. That's called "bottoming out" and its a pretty desperate place to be.
So, if you think you have a problem with drinking or drugs, there's a lot of help available out there. AA, NA, CA (cocaine) and MA (marijuana) are very helpful tools for many people, but not necessarily for all.
All I can say is that my life has completely turned around since I stopped using drugs and alcohol a year and a half ago. And for me there's a hell of a lot more to life than sitting in pub on a Friday night. I'm finally moving forward with my emotional and psychological development, finally beginning the healing process and recovering my life, and leaving DP/DR anxiety behind me for good.
The danger is if you abuse for the sake of self-medicating, your problem will stay exactly where it is. DP/DR anxiety grow to depend on the cycle of drug abuse and it becomes a snake-eating-its-tail kind of thing. Ouroborous. Very ancient metaphor for being stuck in life, doing the same thing every day and expecting different results.
Peace out
Drinking removes social filters, we "relax" and say what we want (or sometimes what we regret.) It's a temporary euphoric, gives us an exagerrated view of ourselves and allows us to expand our social boundaries a bit. For many it gets us out of our head, out of our neurotic cycles, where we can "forget our problems." Zyprexa does not do this, nor any other psych med. And that's where the danger lies for those of us who crave it to an abnormal degree.
I don't think its too much of a head scrathcher because its been proven an exeptional escape route for humanity for millenia.
IF substance abuse is a real issue with us, then we must recognize that alcohol/drugs by nature are a temporary balm. THE greatest danger is that substance abuse is a progressive illness, and if you abuse, you will eventually get to a place where the drug no longer works for you. That's called "bottoming out" and its a pretty desperate place to be.
So, if you think you have a problem with drinking or drugs, there's a lot of help available out there. AA, NA, CA (cocaine) and MA (marijuana) are very helpful tools for many people, but not necessarily for all.
All I can say is that my life has completely turned around since I stopped using drugs and alcohol a year and a half ago. And for me there's a hell of a lot more to life than sitting in pub on a Friday night. I'm finally moving forward with my emotional and psychological development, finally beginning the healing process and recovering my life, and leaving DP/DR anxiety behind me for good.
The danger is if you abuse for the sake of self-medicating, your problem will stay exactly where it is. DP/DR anxiety grow to depend on the cycle of drug abuse and it becomes a snake-eating-its-tail kind of thing. Ouroborous. Very ancient metaphor for being stuck in life, doing the same thing every day and expecting different results.
Peace out
Again all you say is true Bright. The bottom line I am getting at is if anxiety and related things are core to starting and pepetuating dp/dr,and booze nicely deals with those things temporarily (for some of us), then maybe booze should be looked at in terms of "why it works" to knock out dp/dr feelings. I mean booze does not knock out bipolar or psychotc episodes, it does not knock out clinical depression etc.. LIke I say, I was on benzoes for years and tried most all antidepressants, which TARGET anxiety and obession and social phobias and panic disorder but none of those helped me. Booze did. I even had a Family Practicioner give me the thumbs up on moderated beer use to combat nasty episodes. Again, not at all recommended because of all the obvious problems.
Over the years I had many time spaces where I totally abstained due to the reasons you mentioned. One span was 6 years, others were one and two year spans where i worked my ass off in therapy, or on med trials, or intensive diet and exercise regimens, and even a multi year stint as a born again Christian. Booze was not a part of my life at all during those times. And I have to admit here, and am only stating fact,, that those years were the worst of all my journey in terms of intensity and longevity of dp/dr. After all these attempts I gave up I guess and resorted to using beer, but always keeping an eye on research and new books. The whole time I used beer medicinally I was aware of the perils, but really did not give a rats ass because I was too miserable with symptoms and thought any downside would be a trade off to be able to feel normal for an hour or two. It was not until three years ago or so that I found these websites and have found them of immense help in understanding. I wish these websites existed years ago when onset occured for me.
I wonder how many here actually do use alcohol medicinally. I imagine the number is quite high. I wonder how many did for years and wound up with problems and had to quit. I think that number is maybe higher than the general poepulation as well. It works, but it has this very nasty side effect called dependency and numerous other complications. It is interesting how doctors refuse to prescribe benzoes because of the same side effects.
Anyway, enough I guess. Maybe I am just a tough nut to crack and no one here should look to me as the normal dp/dr'r. Mine may be a unique situation.
jft
Over the years I had many time spaces where I totally abstained due to the reasons you mentioned. One span was 6 years, others were one and two year spans where i worked my ass off in therapy, or on med trials, or intensive diet and exercise regimens, and even a multi year stint as a born again Christian. Booze was not a part of my life at all during those times. And I have to admit here, and am only stating fact,, that those years were the worst of all my journey in terms of intensity and longevity of dp/dr. After all these attempts I gave up I guess and resorted to using beer, but always keeping an eye on research and new books. The whole time I used beer medicinally I was aware of the perils, but really did not give a rats ass because I was too miserable with symptoms and thought any downside would be a trade off to be able to feel normal for an hour or two. It was not until three years ago or so that I found these websites and have found them of immense help in understanding. I wish these websites existed years ago when onset occured for me.
I wonder how many here actually do use alcohol medicinally. I imagine the number is quite high. I wonder how many did for years and wound up with problems and had to quit. I think that number is maybe higher than the general poepulation as well. It works, but it has this very nasty side effect called dependency and numerous other complications. It is interesting how doctors refuse to prescribe benzoes because of the same side effects.
Anyway, enough I guess. Maybe I am just a tough nut to crack and no one here should look to me as the normal dp/dr'r. Mine may be a unique situation.
jft
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my drinking became increasingly worse and its strange to think that 4 years ago when i wasnt even drinking only on a friday night my doctor said to try and not use booze as i might end up as an alcoholic,i wondered why she said this but shed obviously met hundreds of cases like mine where people ended up on the bottle...
i went from drinking on a friday to friday and saturday and it escalated to me drinking during the week as well,ive never been into the hard stuff but id be drinking around 6 pints of beer a day ...my frame of mind was a bit like
'damn this anxiety how can i alleviate this,right get some cash and hit the pub'
so i would chat and drink and reach the point where i was feeling very calm,but i would also forget alot of things during the day and spend the next day worrying that parts from the previous day were missing,so this would cause me more anxiety on top of a hangover,so what did i do ? yep down the pub to drink until i didnt care again,so id drink more and wake up the next day feeling even more depressed,i got to a point where the pubs wernt even open so i would cycle to the shops to buy a four pack and go to the river and drink these cans until the pub opened....and the dp does indeed get worse mind would drift so far away that when i became aware of my thoughts again i would panic.....the times i drank alot were when i was left alone in the house drinking made me feel like i didnt need anyone so i wasnt freaked out by being alone but one week i hit beer after beer then wine(this was at home)and i awoke in a real state i was so bad an ambulance had to be called out,i was fucked...rock bottom,depressed,completely lost ....
this scared me so i started to attend AA no one made me go but i knew i had to nip it in the bud...and to cut a long story short i never ever drink at home and when i do go out its beer only and its the weakest beer and when ive had enough i now know when to go home,and also i dont have any cravings now for drink but do admit to going bonkers sometimes at the thought of staying in on a weekend,im afraid im the sort of person that does need stimulation from coversation with other human beings and all my friends visit my local so its a meeting point,but my drinking was moderate then it got bad very bad,but waking up without the shakes and the burning arms(through anxiety)and the missing blanks,and the worry of the money ive blown is worth it............christ i would even buy bottles of booze and hide then down the river so when i woke feeling like crap id sneak off down the river and drink a few cans......the drink can creep up on you so be careful,very careful.....
i do still make a pratt of myself though once a week and get drunk but it usually involves me falling over or as in last week falling over and the entire contents of my chicken korma covering me from head to toe
anyway thats my admission
but finding an alternative is very difficult for me,thats the problem
i went from drinking on a friday to friday and saturday and it escalated to me drinking during the week as well,ive never been into the hard stuff but id be drinking around 6 pints of beer a day ...my frame of mind was a bit like
'damn this anxiety how can i alleviate this,right get some cash and hit the pub'
so i would chat and drink and reach the point where i was feeling very calm,but i would also forget alot of things during the day and spend the next day worrying that parts from the previous day were missing,so this would cause me more anxiety on top of a hangover,so what did i do ? yep down the pub to drink until i didnt care again,so id drink more and wake up the next day feeling even more depressed,i got to a point where the pubs wernt even open so i would cycle to the shops to buy a four pack and go to the river and drink these cans until the pub opened....and the dp does indeed get worse mind would drift so far away that when i became aware of my thoughts again i would panic.....the times i drank alot were when i was left alone in the house drinking made me feel like i didnt need anyone so i wasnt freaked out by being alone but one week i hit beer after beer then wine(this was at home)and i awoke in a real state i was so bad an ambulance had to be called out,i was fucked...rock bottom,depressed,completely lost ....
this scared me so i started to attend AA no one made me go but i knew i had to nip it in the bud...and to cut a long story short i never ever drink at home and when i do go out its beer only and its the weakest beer and when ive had enough i now know when to go home,and also i dont have any cravings now for drink but do admit to going bonkers sometimes at the thought of staying in on a weekend,im afraid im the sort of person that does need stimulation from coversation with other human beings and all my friends visit my local so its a meeting point,but my drinking was moderate then it got bad very bad,but waking up without the shakes and the burning arms(through anxiety)and the missing blanks,and the worry of the money ive blown is worth it............christ i would even buy bottles of booze and hide then down the river so when i woke feeling like crap id sneak off down the river and drink a few cans......the drink can creep up on you so be careful,very careful.....
i do still make a pratt of myself though once a week and get drunk but it usually involves me falling over or as in last week falling over and the entire contents of my chicken korma covering me from head to toe
anyway thats my admission
but finding an alternative is very difficult for me,thats the problem
Again, if its not a problem in your life, then its not a problem. If its affecting how you go about things, if your behavior is putting yourself or others at risk, then it would probably be best to address it.
Have you ever heard the expression "dry drunk?" Its certainly common for people to feel like absolute crap for years in sobriety. But the idea is that underlying issues have not been addressed. Hence, dry, sober, but still behaving like an addict. One way of putting it is that excessive consumption of alcohol and drugs is simply a SYMPTOM of a much larger problem, a problem with life and living.
If its a struggle, if you think you have a problem, you probably do. If you don't, if you get by fine, then great, lucky for you. I'm quite jealous actually, but that's just how it goes.
Have you ever heard the expression "dry drunk?" Its certainly common for people to feel like absolute crap for years in sobriety. But the idea is that underlying issues have not been addressed. Hence, dry, sober, but still behaving like an addict. One way of putting it is that excessive consumption of alcohol and drugs is simply a SYMPTOM of a much larger problem, a problem with life and living.
If its a struggle, if you think you have a problem, you probably do. If you don't, if you get by fine, then great, lucky for you. I'm quite jealous actually, but that's just how it goes.
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