[Guest]

Hi,

I asked to a psychologist to see me, and she reffered me to a clinic who treats personality disorders (severe). I feel very ill and crazy right now.

Do we have a personality disorder?

Can someone hold my hand, for a minute, I feel so ill, and depressed, I cry because I don't see the meaning of this all.

Cynthia

 

[dreamcatcher]

cynthia<<<<hugs>>>>

i don't think its personality disorder.....it lose of ones self.....but i can't see the harm with going....maybe he'll beable to help you find the real you

 

[kenc127]

Yes, our personality disorder is narcissism, and the associated narcissistic defenses cause the DP. Find a way to erode the need for narcissism, and DP will never bother you again.

Ken

 

[Guest]

I do think its a personality disorder, i can tell there are alot of the same personalities on here, there are different groups of people here with the same personalities, thats why we mostly agree with each other and can relate to each other, we have the same backgrounds and so on.

 

[Guest]

It doesnt have to be, Ken, it can also be Borderline PD (BPD).
But men will most likely be diagnosed with NPD, women with BPD.
(I dont have it in me to write a whole post about it, sorry :? )

 

[Guest]

So I am borderline or narcissic, :!: and I have to go to a semi-clinic specialised in all personality disorders, where they have psychiatrists and psychologists and where they have schizo types and weird people?

I can't resign myself. I would prefer a normal psycholohist/psychiatrist.

Janine, your comments?

C

 

[kenc127]

It doesnt have to be, Ken, it can also be Borderline PD (BPD).

Do you mean Borderline Personality Disorder? If so don't BPD folks look for relational fulfillment from the narcissist? The person with NPD and the person with BPD are one and the same performing 2 different roles that use each other to to obtain emotional fulfillment. Both exhibit similar defense mechanisms that can cause DPDR. NPD is just the more obvious/typical example of narcissistic injury while BPD is not so obvious, or is the "lesser" of the 2 in terms of extremes. Both are forms of narcissism and both stem from some sort of trauma, be it emotional or physical.

 

[Guest]

The term "personality disorder" is purely subjective. Take several good psychiatrists and they will probably each disagree a bit on a given patient's exact diagnosis. PLEASE don't start obsessing about THIS now, loll...

I do agree with Ken, however, that most of us here seem to clearly have very similar personality types - and as I've said before, symptoms rarely come from NOwhere. Certain defense structures tend to produce the same kinds of defenses. That's just the logic that rises to the surface again and again in the study of mental illness.

Clearly, I've got a personality structured in narcissism - when younger, as Wendy points out, I was in the Borderline region, too. It all depends on the person's behaviors, feelings, patterns....personality disorders are ways of categorizing the constellation of symptoms that seem to revolve around certain KINDS of people.

Deeply depressed people (without dp, only depression) tend to have lots of trouble with anger. They tend to be passive and to turn their rage against themselves, rather than being able to manage it when felt against others. Does that make all those people "Passive/Avoidant personality types?" NOt necessarily, but it's often worth looking there for greater understanding.

Cynthia, CLEARLY you've got something going on in terms of why you obsess and your stubbornness (grin), and the overall patterns of thought and behavior that limit you, that cause you some problems in life. That is NOT horrible, it's just an area to work on to make your own life better.

Same for most of us.

But....the DANGER in any of these labels is that the person will use it as a weapon against themselves, or as a way of screaming that the doctors don't understand. Take what sounds right and work on it. Leave the rest.

The fact that we DON'T, lol..that instead, we have to fight and scream and lament about it to our own detriment is the real red flag to the underlying personality disturbance.

Love,
J

 

[lone wolf]

Yes, our personality disorder is narcissism, and the associated narcissistic defenses cause the DP. Find a way to erode the need for narcissism, and DP will never bother you again.

What need for narcissism I should erode, as I don't have a faintest idea what you are talking about? :shock: Indeed I feel the diagnostic criteria of NPD pretty alien to me:

According to the DSM IV, individuals with NPD showcase a pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy.

It is possible that in some cases narcissism may be the reason behind DP/DR, but if anybody tries to say it is correct with everyone suffering from DP/DR, I feel the statement utterly ridiculous. I think the reason for my DR lies somewhere else, and I guess the icy wall of DR for me may be a way to protect myself from the world, which has proven to be unfair and unsafe in my past. However, though I feel the need to protect my innermost self, I don't feel any desperate need to be admired, nor I feel being particularly unempathetic. And I don't see the wishes of getting my studies finished, finding work afterwards, and getting a chance to move to a nice old wooden house in the countryside with my boyfriend in the far future in any way grandiose. I think they are just ordinary wishes for an ordinary person.

I'd like to know why you see narcissism as the only cause of DP, Ken? Could you explain more? :?: And, by the way - I don't see myself suffering from BPD either, as the diagnostic criteria of BPD seem to describe a considerably more emotionally disturbed person than I feel I am currently.

Sorry for the tone of my post, but sometimes I feel a bit puzzled why people seem to be so sure about the causes of DP, though they are possibly different for every person suffering from the phenomenon.

 

[kenc127]

I'd like to know why you see narcissism as the only cause of DP, Ken?

Sure Ninnu. First of all I don't think it's the sole cause, but i do think it is responsible for most of the cases. The reason I believe so is because most of us here tend to be bent on self watching, including myself. By doing so we take on the assumption that our illness and our symptoms are larger than life, and there must be some huge reason behind our illness like brain damage or some horrible traumatic event or some genetic disadvantage. This illness seems to take on the same role everytime: "I feel like this, I feel like that, I'm going nuts, I'm having a break from reality, etc. all of the symptoms seem to be based around FEELINGS and SELF. Many of us become so absorbed into the oddness of our symptoms and what is happening to ME, that we can't take our eyes off of ourselves, even if we were given a million dollars to do so. We are the center of our symptom world, and obsessing about symptoms allows us to feel in control, and control is the primary goal of narcissism. And this is why I believe narcissism to be a key factor in this illness. This is just a THEORY. Not a law and not a judgement.

My apologies for coming across assertively and generally with my first reply, that was not my goal. Also my apologies for saying "our problem" not taking into account those individuals who may have this illness as a result of other circumstances. I probably had too much coffee when i typed the reply.

Also, the people I know who have healed from this illness worked on themselves in therapy, and worked on narcissistic aspects of themselves. They no longer suffer from this. The healing speaks for itself.

Ken

 

[Guest]

there are too many fuckin causes for dp/dr.

 

[JasonFar]

I think Ken is right but I think that BELOW is where the real issues are...

Anger at the world.
Hating everything.
Scared of people.
No self worth.
Unable to commit to responsibility.

Blahdity blah. Lots of cool stuff.

We aren't narcissistic because we simply are totally self-aware... I think we're narcissistic because we have this fake little mask of Self we wear in Reality when our real buried selves are the above things and others... And when we're in a state of breakdown or DP/dissociation, we obsess over it all because it doesn't make sense -- no sense of Self, but how could we, when it's buried deep in our psyches with a bunch of poo surrounding it.

 

[Guest]

It's interesting about the narcisism stuff. I guess that may as well be my reason for developing it, gaining it after a few years of chronic depression where I constantly condemned myself. Then I told myself I can't be half-bad and gained the disorder happily in depression's place. But then I had some religious experience soon after where I made it known to myself that I am worthless and only a lowely insignificant servant of God and the world around me. Yet I still had the disorder. It's rather like that now I suppose also, though there was a gap between then and now which I regained some narcissism. I care much more about others than I do myself, or at least relative to how I see the people around me blindly follow their own self interest constantly, and yet I still have this disorder. It's not so strong as most people describe for me. I have no panic attacks, I accept the detached perception and welcome the alternatives if available. But they never are. I hate defending myself by any of this and the question of it, but why do I still have dp if I don't even live life as much for myself as I do others? Perhaps it goes back to when I was a child and my siblings always dejected me, along with most other kids in my childhood, causing me to subconsciously seek vengence in a "I'll show them" one day mentality. If my dp is a result of this type of narcisism so deep-rooted, is it even possible to be rid of?

 

[Guest]

Alright I'll admit, it probably is narcissism. But is there any way to fix narcissism with everything we've gathered about the world around us so far? I mean, he way I truthfully perceive the world is that it's full of too many "idiots" who don't look into what reality is all about enough. Truthfully, I'm full of... confusion toward the world and how I'm supposed to be a part of it with all that I've "realized" about it. And that comes from the part of myself which is my core understanding of things and core values system. I admit, I'm a narcissist, no matter how many people I meet, no one impresses me, I'm always able to tell myself "I could do that... if I put in the effort" and I tend to know that it's true. And when I first developed this disorder, I somehow thought I was meant to have it and was significant in the world for having it with all its perceptual advantages. I have no real intention to re-assimilate into the world of minds who would rather live carelessly than carefully. And because of that, DP persists, but I am not so incompatible with the world. I've learned how to act, how to look like I'm living, learned to enjoy genuine things and see past the masks others wear. I can look at the behavior of a person for a few minutes and nearly determine everything about them. I'm a narcissist, although speaking from the mask, I will say I care about people and do not wish to think such things as I do about them. But now I find out that DP has a name and other people have it. Of course we all have the same narcissistic personalities and all the other personality traits which belong to it. And honestly, I'm happy to know that this world has more "genuine" people such as myself. Many good leaders probably had DP, and more likely many evil leaders had it too, like Hitler. I actually walk around school and see straight into people who have DP and can single them out. In fact, before I knew DP existed, I named them "chosens" in my mind since I'm so goddamned narcissistic. But I'll live through a mask never knowing myself because my true self is someone I need to hide, someone who cares too much about himself to be socially viable. I want to help others, because it makes me feel good about myself and makes me feel like I'm doing the right thing. From the mask, it gives me the personality trait of someone who genuinely likes to help others, and that is a viable assimilation in my mind which allows me to live life well off enough. I even had to lie in the above post to say I don't have narcissism just to protect my unmasked self's ego. Now, I'm not sure how normal all this is with people who have DP. Perhaps I'm just the antichrist for it all.

 

[Guest]

Anger at the world.
Hating everything.
Scared of people.
No self worth.
Unable to commit to responsibility.

wow thats me right there

 

[Guest]

muyashi i can pretty much relate to every single thing you said, almost identical to all my thoughts, I often think to myself i have been given this disorder from God, so that i can change the future, I often have thoughts of assasinating the president as crazy it sounds, I was almost convinced i had to do it but the better part of my mind says lets be realistic, lets get back to the norm, do you really want to die ? This is really wi3rd

 

[Guest]

Saying all which I did helped to calm down my disorder and bring me back down to reality slightly. I've only done it twice before where I've condemned myself with all which I've said and that only made things worse because I then heard some ethereal and booming voice in my mind claiming to be God telling me things which would help me live a better life. He tells me to help others, he tells me to stop focusing on myself, he tells me to stop being so selfish and to put others before myself, and I do just that, for about two days before I stop. But at least those two days are absolutely worth living. Maybe I'll have to do that every single morning, but it probably won't help me get my feet back on the ground. DP is like floating an inch about the ground and never being able to touch it. DP is like putting on sunglasses and being unable to take them off.

But what is interesting is that DP probably harvests some rather capable thinktanks into leadership positions. DP makes you think you have some sort of destiny, some sort of claim to greatness, an ordained life to live. When I first got it, I thought, "okay where did "I" go... well I guess it's up to me now to live the rest of this person's life through. " It's like I'm not even living for myself anymore, I'm living for the self who isn't me but exists only through me, and because of it, I try to be successful in my life and take advantage of the motivation which comes with the responsibility of living in an alien body. In fact, I'm president of my entirely Class at school, and I have amibitions to be President of the United States one day and I know it's not impossible so I strive for it and attain qualities which would make me perfect for the job some day. And it's possibly because I don't think others are right for the job, or possibly because I'm a narcissist, but at least I feel I'm doing it for the me I never knew and not just the me who wants to gain success. Or so I think.

We who have DP, we must be horrible people, to want so much for ourselves who we do not even know any longer.

 

[Guest]

Napoleon probably had DP. Bismarck probably had DP. All the great, even if evil, leaders this world has produced, probably had DP. Because they were narcissistic enough in one way or another to get to where they did to do what they did. Regular people weren't meant to effectively manage and understand the world around them. I've taken a personality disorder test before and it showed that I was very low in every of the 8 possible disorders, meaning no disorders, and this is because I've molded myself away from every bad quality I could find in others. So perhaps DP is as close to sanity and order and normalicy as one may ever get to, other than nonexistence of course.

 

[Guest]

aren't we gettin ahead of ourselves

 

[Guest]

Yeah, but we're narcissists, we're allowed to.